Could an HOA have prevented the Rand Paul incident?

Started by JeromeB • 15 replies • 1116 views

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JeromeB (Maryland)
Posts: 5

Posted:

My question is not meant to be political. I was wondering if an HOA could have done something before this issue escalated. If so, what could they have done? As President of an HOA, I am always looking to find solutions to potential problems that might occur in my own neighborhood.

Thank you in advance for your replies!

Jerome

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I expect you are referring to this article from the news page of this site.

Based on a brief scan of the story, it sounds like a neighbor v neighbor issue and if a board member brought this issue to this forum, my advice would be for the HOA to stay out of it. It's a neighbor v neighbor issue, not an HOA issue.

An HOA nor a COA are the police.
They are not the mediators when neighbors don't get along.
They are there to maintain the common area and typically have authority (as all members within the HOA/COA also have) to enforce covenants.

In my HOA, before we will become involved in such an incident (which would likely come under the nuisance clause of covenants) we require 2 different lots to make a complaint.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 11/08/2017 3:46 AM

An HOA nor a COA are the police.

Should be: Neither the HOA nor a COA are the police

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Could an HOA have prevented the Rand Paul incident?

Well, I read the story. There is an HOA.
Therefore, the answer is apparently no.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Nope. From what I've read, there had been a long-simmering feud between Paul and the guy who attacked him, and unless the dispute involved the common area, the HOA board can't really step in - nor should they.

Whether you live in an HOA or not, everyone has to find a way to get along with their neighbors. I always say you begin by being the type of neighbor you want to live next door or across from. Keep your yard neat, control your dog, don't hog all the parking spots, don't blast your music in the middle of the night, etc., etc. If you do have an issue, speak up, but be polite about it. Sometimes people really don't realize their behavior gets on everyone's nerves and they straighten up.

The problem starts when people have this "this is MY home dammit and I'll do whatever I damn well please" attitude. Of course, it's your house, but you live among other people and we all think, look and believe differently. If we're going to live in peace, everyone has to act their age, learn to share and take responsibility for their actions. Instead, we have people in HOAs who don't read the documents and feel the rules apply to everyone else but them. Some of those folks end up on the Board and develop this God complex (I/we are the board and therefore we are). They take things too personally, look at the operating budget and reserves as their own piggy bank and nitpik over EVERY DAMN THING.

How to fix this? It's an ongoing process and will last as long as people roam the earth. What HOAs residents can do is check their own behavior and participate in activities where they interact with their neighbors. Sadly, we live in a society where people go in and out of their homes and don't pay attention to anything or anyone around them - another reason for drama. As for the HOA board and advisory committee members, I think there should be ongoing training on communication skills and conflict resolution - after reading some of the stuff on this website, I'm convinced that's as important as knowing your CCRs and what a reserve study is for.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 11/08/2017 3:46 AM
I expect you are referring to this article from the news page of this site.

Based on a brief scan of the story, it sounds like a neighbor v neighbor issue and if a board member brought this issue to this forum, my advice would be for the HOA to stay out of it. It's a neighbor v neighbor issue, not an HOA issue.

An HOA nor a COA are the police.
They are not the mediators when neighbors don't get along.
They are there to maintain the common area and typically have authority (as all members within the HOA/COA also have) to enforce covenants.

In my HOA, before we will become involved in such an incident (which would likely come under the nuisance clause of covenants) we require 2 different lots to make a complaint.

When one neighbor is violation the CC&R's, the HOA does have a duty to get involved.

JillS8 (California)
Posts: 101

Posted:

Nobody can stop CRAZY

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LetA on 11/08/2017 6:21 AM

When one neighbor is violation the CC&R's, the HOA does have a duty to get involved.

That depends on the wording of the governing documents.

Typically the Association has the option to enforce, not a requirement.
This is the same as each member having the option to enforce but aren't required to.

PaininyourA
Posts: 215

Posted:

NO

The HOA is not our 'nanny'.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LetA on 11/08/2017 6:21 AM

When one neighbor is [in] violation the CC&R's, the HOA does have a duty to get involved.

Ditto. Where I live, when push comes to shove (with members asking for enforcement), the courts say it is a duty.

Interesting situation. It appears that the Board/Developer were notified many times of Senator Paul's violations of the rules at the HOA (a contract, afaic and often in the courts as well) and did take some kind of action. People taking matters into their own hands like this is detrimental. One cannot entirely stop "crazy." But if I were on the Board of this HOA, I would start cracking down on enforcement of the Rules. Next time, someone might get caught in the cross-fire. The attorneys will go after the deepest pockets.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

In our high rise HOA, the HOA does enforce what might be called neighbor- to-neighbor disputes such as loud late partying and incessantly barking dogs. So they mainly are noise nuisances.

I'm not going to read the article but IF Paul was mowing at hours when the HOA is a supposed to be quiet, AND the attacker plus any other neighbor had complained, AND the noise nuisance was verified by the HOA Board or staff, our Board would have directed our PM to send a letter to Paul requesting that he follow Rule such & such about noise. If Paul did not comply, our PM would have sent a letter calling him to a hearing.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

There is not enough detail yet as both sides are stating "no comment" due to legal aspect. With what is currently known ... I agree with others at this time it is neighbor vs neighbor and the HOA is not the police.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

There are far to many cases of HOA's sticking their noses where they do not belong, especially in neighbor to neighbor issues.

JeromeB (Maryland)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Hi Shelia!

Well said (all of it).

It's interesting that you mentioned conflict resolution training as I have been looking around my local area for any opportunities to take such a training. Our county provides a free 2-hour training on serving on an HOA board. The training was helpful but it is broad in scope and wouldn't be a replacement for conflict resolution training.

Jerome

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

okay, I got one, A libertarian and a socialist buy a house next to each other......

Oh, you've already heard it?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

You might try local community colleges or a four year college in your area - they may have departments that sponsor one day or four - six week classes on various subjects, including conflict resolution. You may have to do a little digging - some schools may list them in the business administration department, others in the law school, if you have one.

In my area the local BBB once sponsored a training on conflict resolution, as people could volunteer to serve as mediators for its alternative dispute resolution program. I don't know if they still have the program, but participants took a 6-8 week training and then served as volunteer mediators between member businesses and their customers. There have also been a few county prosecutor's offices who sponsored a similar program for those neighbor to neighbor disputes, which helped prevented fistfights and worse.

If all else fails, Google conflict resolution training - even a good book is better than nothing. Or there may be a web-based course you can take - good luck!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

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