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AdamD (Indiana)
Posts: 42
Posted:
We are a large (400+) single family home subdivision. Low dues - $100 annually and lack of enforcement of CC&Rs. We are trying to write our own property management contract and I wanted to see if there is one or two clauses you have that you are glad you included in your contract or was there something you wish you had included?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Rather than write your own contract, make it a request for proposal (RFP) instead, after you consider everything you want the company to do. You can then send it out to various property management companies, let them bid and go from there. At $100 a year, your assessments may not be enough to do everything you want done, plus do regular maintenance of the common areas (whatever that is) and fund reserves, so be prepared to increase them if necessary and be sure to explain to the homeowners why it's necessary.

I wasn't living in my community when it contracted with our current property manager, but I know they went through about 3 or 4, after self management didn't work very well. Our property manager was a medium sized company, but then was taken over by one of the larger HOA property managers in the country (some of you can probably guess who I'm talking about). For the most part, they do a good job, but based on my board member days, I would say that it's important that rule enforcement is written in the contract and you have to be very clear as to what you want them to do.

It's not the property manager's job to enforce the CCRS - that's the job of the board, whether they want to do it or not. The property manager can help with the busy work, such as periodic inspections, mailing out violation notices, forwarding appeal requests to the board (who should schedule those hearings themselves), and making sure there's decent documentation (time and date stamped photos are always good.

Speaking of periodic inspections, I would also recommend a weekly or bi-weekly drive through by the property manager assigned to your community (or a competent designee) to check on the common areas. Before our property management company was taken over, our manager would drive through every week and make note of needed repairs. We're a townhouse community and it's always been amazing to me that people will look at a problem and not pick up the phone and at least call it in, but then turn around and complain why it took so long to get fixed!

In light of all the stories about property management companies that have embezzled from HOAs large and small, you'll need to put some internal controls into the contract to protect the association's assets. Your association attorney can help review that language - actually he or she should review the thing before it's signed to make sure you aren't nit-picked on various charges and there are clear terms regarding termination or extension of the contract, plus what will be done if you do decide to change management companies, so the association's permanent files don't get lost in space.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Adam

Contact a few PM's in your area. Be careful as there are many listed as PM's but be sure in they have HOA experience. Talk to 2 or 3 and tell them your needs and let them quote. They can range from cradle to grave service down to basic book keeping.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Adam,

You say that you are a large association (400+) with low dues ($100 a year).

Even if you have 600 lots, your assessment would equate to $6,000 per year.
I don't think that is enough money to cover your insurance requirements, much less hire a contractor to manage the Association for you.

Did you mean $100 per month?
AdamD (Indiana)
Posts: 42
Posted:
Technically, $95 a year.. not monthly... so each homeowner write one check for $95 once a year. Revenue is about 40k if people pay, though we have about 20+% in arrears in one way or another. The problem with approaching PM companies about what we want (and they write up a contract) is that they will try to upsell their service and throw in extras that aren't applicable. Figured we can go in with exactly what we need with our own contract and ask them to quote us based upon a predetermined contract geared with our limited services in mind.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Of course, they'll try to sell you extras (this is a bidness and this is what they do to make money!). That's why people should READ the bids and ask questions about anything they don't understand. Just because they'll try to toss in extras doesn't mean you have to accept them. It does mean you need to review the bid against what you want to make sure everything YOU want is listed. If people start trying to sell you stuff you can't afford or want, say so and if they keep yapping, eliminate them from consideration because they aren't paying attention.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Based on what was posted, annual income is $38K a year. The typical price for a full service management company handling CCR enforcement is $10.00 per door, or $48,000.

The math just isn't there.
AdamD (Indiana)
Posts: 42
Posted:
Keeping to my original post, if anyone has any PM contract suggestions let me know!
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
I believe specific recommendations may not be made on this Board, so you aren't going to get any company names, etc.

California prices for management aren't the norm. In my area, $1000 a month is a standard minimum for management. There will be lots of schedule A fees of course.

If you are looking for the cheapest solution, go with one of the national companies. Local boutique agencies charge more and may not even take you on if you don't have solid financials and want minimal services. The big companies will take anyone. Of course the drawback is they usually have massive turnover so you'll go through a couple of managers a year.

Your local CAI chapter may have contract samples, or at least things to look for. The best move would be to take their contract and negotiate from that starting point to get what you want.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
With such low dues, Adam, it sounds like your HOA has very few amenities, right? How much is your insurance a year? Landscaping? How much do you contribute to reserves a year?

But with so many properties delinquent on their dues, it also sounds like you want enforcement of dues payments. True?

What else do you want? Enforcement of architectural guidelines? Tell us what you want an MC to do.
AdamD (Indiana)
Posts: 42
Posted:
I'd say the PM would need to probably do the following:

1. Collect annual dues
2. Pay vendors timely
3. Send out annual meeting notice/attend annual meeting
4. Send out any other mailings (delinquent due statement, random mailings, etc.) on an agreed upon per home fee - a la cart service
5. Send in yearly state filings
6. Pay our insurance bonds
7. Monitor our official P.O. Box
8. Maybe conduct a yearly inspection looking for a few specific covenant violations

That would be about all that is needed.

We have no amenities besides entrance signs, a short gravel trail, a couple roundabouts, and some acreage of non maintained HOA property in bits and pieces around the subdivision. No pool, clubhouse, tennis courts, etc.
AdamD (Indiana)
Posts: 42
Posted:
Hey Barbara, I wasn't looking for specific PM names. I am just wanting verbiage in someone's PM contract that they feel is valuable to have that I'm not thinking of. For example, a poster may state....

"In our contract, we have a provision that allows us to send our PM a period newsletter in which they have 10 days to print, fold, stuff/seal in envelop, address, stamp, and mail out at a predetermined charge of $1.50 per homeowner."

Catch my drift?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Adam,

Keep in mind that contracts are negotiable.
Prior to signing, read their contract and remove, add or change things you don't agree with and give back to them to review.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamD on 11/02/2017 5:06 PM
I'd say the PM would need to probably do the following:

2. Pay vendors timely

I'm sorry. I personally don't like giving signature authority to anyone outside of the Board.

One doesn't have to be on the account to make a deposit to the account.

Preparing checks for signature would be fine, but issuing a check would not be (in my opinion).

I would also strongly recommend that the accounts be kept in a bank of the Associations choosing and under the Associations name and EIN.

Quote:
Posted By AdamD on 11/02/2017 5:06 PM

5. Send in yearly state filings

Prepping, yes. Sending it out without review? No

Remember, everything your agent (the MC) does on behalf of the Association makes the Association accountable for what was done.

Quote:
Posted By AdamD on 11/02/2017 5:06 PM

6. Pay our insurance bonds

See earlier issue with paying vendors.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Our quarterly dues payments go to a bank lock box and the money is transferred to our PM's account and they pay all our bills. Could they run away? Yes. Would they hurt us that much? No. Worst case might be a few months depending on how tight an eye the BOD keeps on them. They have no access to our Reserve Funds.

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