HOA FUNDS USED FOR GIFTS

KA3 (Florida)
Posts: 2

Posted:

RECENTLY, OUR PRESIDENT OF THE ASSOCIATION IS MOVING OUT OF THE STATE. HE HAS BEEN THE PRESIDENT FOR 8 YEARS. THE BOARD THINKS ITS OK TO USE HOA FUNDS TO PAY FOR A PLAQUE THAT THEY WANT TO PRESENT TO HIM FOR HIS YEARS OF GREAT SERVICE. I SUGGESTED THAT WE ALL CHIP IN AND NOT USE HOA FUNDS BUT I WAS OUT VOTED.THEY SAID IT IS NOT A PROBLEM USING THE HOA FUNDS. I DONT THINK IS RIGHT.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

KA,

I agree with you.

However, and being realistic, I doubt you will have the issue stopped prior to it happening as this will likely require one of two options to stop:

1) recalling the board
2) legal action

Instead, look forward and get enough supportive documentation to adopt a policy to prevent this in the future. Gathering support and getting those who voted for it off the board if need be.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

Do your governing docs specify what HOA funds can be used for?

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

It's not right. The HOA funds should not be used. Good luck stopping it.

KA3 (Florida)
Posts: 2

Posted:

All our documents state is "No Director shall receive compensation for any service rendered, as a Director, to the Association. However, any Director may be reimbursed for actual expenses incurred as Director, in fulfilling activities in behalf of the Association

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Tell them if it's that important they donate from their own pockets. It's NOT the HOA's funds that should pay for such things. Why? Cause that money is EVERYONE's money. Not everyone wants to donate do they?

Former HOA President

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Sorry ... It always peeves me when a few want to use HOA funds for "Gifts" or "Parties". Potentially all you need to do is look at your State Laws regarding assessments. FL states:

720.301 Definitions.—As used in this chapter, the term:
(1) “Assessment” or “amenity fee” means a sum or sums of money payable to the association, to the developer or other owner of common areas, or to recreational facilities and other properties serving the parcels by the owners of one or more parcels as authorized in the governing documents, which if not paid by the owner of a parcel, can result in a lien against the parcel.

(2) “Common area” means all real property within a community which is owned or leased by an association or dedicated for use or maintenance by the association or its members, including, regardless of whether title has been conveyed to the association:
(a) Real property the use of which is dedicated to the association or its members by a recorded plat; or
(b) Real property committed by a declaration of covenants to be leased or conveyed to the association.

CCR's pretty much all state that any Assessments are to be used for payment of "Common Area Property" which benefits ALL owners equally. If an HOA is paying for parties which many owners do not attend ... how does that money paid for any party equally benefit any owner who did not participate (even though they paid assessments)??? Instead these items should be set up as potentially Pot Luck type parties where those who attend contribute ... NOT the HOA!!! The same goes for gifts!!!

ArtL1 (Florida)
Posts: 140

Posted:

This thread got me thinking about something our previous board initiated (a yard of the month cash prize). Our documents say:

"The annual Assessments levied by the Association shall be used exclusively for maintenance of the Common Areas (including walls), for certain Lot maintenance performed by or at the direction of the Board as provided for in this Declaration, for capital improvements, insurance, cash reserves (if any), and for promoting the health, safety, welfare, and recreational opportunities of the Members of the Association and their families residing with them, their guests and tenants, all as provided for herein."

I suppose it could maybe be argued that the yard of the month prize promotes the welfare of the neighborhood by giving people an incentive (other than not getting nastygrams from the PM) to keep their property looking nice, which could be argued helps keep everyone's property value up. But this seems at least a questionable use of HOA funds.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I think that : "... shall be used exclusively for maintenance....for certain Lot maintenance..." could include incentives to keeps lots in nice shape. I think it's a creative use of $ that benefit all who pass by these homes and their competition too.

Note that Art's docs also make room for using assessments for social events.

We gave a retiring director a card and a coffee mug with his names, dates of service & our HOA logo on it. He was very appreciative. We directors didn't chip in and there's nothing in our docs that would permit this gift.

On the other hand when our last PM left us, we (7) directors did each chip in $10 for a nice gift for the two years of fine work she did for us.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

So a director, on their own time, help manage a $1.5M reserve fund that paid the association over $40K annually, which help fund social events for the community, saved the association $500K over 10 years in water expenses and you say no to a stinking plaque after 8 years and they are leaving the community. REALLY?????????????

BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821

Posted:

Social events do benefit all owners equally - it's their choice to attend or not. Should owners who choose not to use the pool be exempt from whatever percentage of assessments that pay for the pool? What if they don't look at the entrance landscaping, can they get out of paying for that, too?

Social events promote community harmony.

Thanking volunteers is a great way to ensure you keep getting volunteers.

Recalling the entire board or filing a lawsuit over a plaque that is probably less than $100 seems an overreaction. And the cost to defend a lawsuit would certainly be many times more than the cost of the offending plaque.

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ArtL1 on 11/18/2017 6:46 PM
This thread got me thinking about something our previous board initiated (a yard of the month cash prize). Our documents say:

"The annual Assessments levied by the Association shall be used exclusively for maintenance of the Common Areas (including walls), for certain Lot maintenance performed by or at the direction of the Board as provided for in this Declaration, for capital improvements, insurance, cash reserves (if any), and for promoting the health, safety, welfare, and recreational opportunities of the Members of the Association and their families residing with them, their guests and tenants, all as provided for herein."

I suppose it could maybe be argued that the yard of the month prize promotes the welfare of the neighborhood by giving people an incentive (other than not getting nastygrams from the PM) to keep their property looking nice, which could be argued helps keep everyone's property value up. But this seems at least a questionable use of HOA funds.

Wow they do that here ,except I ask around and no one knows anyone who has ever got it .Plus I also am not sure its fair because a lot of the people in here hire lawn services ,which of course the average do it your self home owner would not be able to get all of it done ,compared to a whole bunch ( 3-5 people with every kind of machine or gadget needed )

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 11/18/2017 9:31 PM
So a director, on their own time, help manage a $1.5M reserve fund that paid the association over $40K annually, which help fund social events for the community, saved the association $500K over 10 years in water expenses and you say no to a stinking plaque after 8 years and they are leaving the community. REALLY?????????????

As crappy as it sounds, yes. And if the director is really that great of a director he already knows that HOA funds shouldn't be used like that. Imagine the next time an increase or special assessment is proposed..."We have enough money to be buying trophies for directors but now need an increase...."

I can hear it now. Just ask for donations. I'm sure you'd get it.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 11/18/2017 9:31 PM
So a director, on their own time, help manage a $1.5M reserve fund that paid the association over $40K annually, which help fund social events for the community, saved the association $500K over 10 years in water expenses and you say no to a stinking plaque after 8 years and they are leaving the community. REALLY?????????????

Well said.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KA3 on 11/01/2017 2:29 PM
RECENTLY, OUR PRESIDENT OF THE ASSOCIATION IS MOVING OUT OF THE STATE. HE HAS BEEN THE PRESIDENT FOR 8 YEARS. THE BOARD THINKS ITS OK TO USE HOA FUNDS TO PAY FOR A PLAQUE THAT THEY WANT TO PRESENT TO HIM FOR HIS YEARS OF GREAT SERVICE. I SUGGESTED THAT WE ALL CHIP IN AND NOT USE HOA FUNDS BUT I WAS OUT VOTED.THEY SAID IT IS NOT A PROBLEM USING THE HOA FUNDS. I DONT THINK IS RIGHT.

GET OVER IT...

I personally do not see anything wrong with this, HOA's budget for incidentals such as this.
BTW my HOA had a small bronze plaque made for a board member that died of cancer, and she only served less than 2 years, nobody pitched a a fit. The plaque
is in the community park dedicated in her memory.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DouglasM6 on 11/21/2017 8:14 AM

Posted By RichardP13 on 11/18/2017 9:31 PM
So a director, on their own time, help manage a $1.5M reserve fund that paid the association over $40K annually, which help fund social events for the community, saved the association $500K over 10 years in water expenses and you say no to a stinking plaque after 8 years and they are leaving the community. REALLY?????????????

As crappy as it sounds, yes. And if the director is really that great of a director he already knows that HOA funds shouldn't be used like that. Imagine the next time an increase or special assessment is proposed..."We have enough money to be buying trophies for directors but now need an increase...."

I can hear it now. Just ask for donations. I'm sure you'd get it.

Well stated Douglas!!!

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BarbaraT1 on 11/19/2017 7:09 PM

Social events do benefit all owners equally - it's their choice to attend or not. Should owners who choose not to use the pool be exempt from whatever percentage of assessments that pay for the pool? What if they don't look at the entrance landscaping, can they get out of paying for that, too?

Social events promote community harmony.

The issue is a social event can be scheduled when some owners CANNOT attend due to something beyond their control ... yet you want them to PAY for not being able to attend. Pool maintenance or entrance landscaping reference is not the same because the owners purchased in an HOA with those stated amenities known and the required upkeep. Essentially you have "Items in CCR's" vs "Parties not in CCR's". Plus you need to keep in mind various State Laws can differ on this subject. If you wanted to have social events in my state and expect everyone to pay for a few able to attend your parties I could hang you out to dry violating my state law.

I would contend social events should be Pot Lucks and BYOB for those who choose to attend. That is what we do every year in my HOA and it works just fine with those able to attend contributing and those who have other obligations, not being forced to pay for anything they did not have equal benefit.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JanetB2 on 11/26/2017 8:52 PM

Posted By DouglasM6 on 11/21/2017 8:14 AM

Posted By RichardP13 on 11/18/2017 9:31 PM
So a director, on their own time, help manage a $1.5M reserve fund that paid the association over $40K annually, which help fund social events for the community, saved the association $500K over 10 years in water expenses and you say no to a stinking plaque after 8 years and they are leaving the community. REALLY?????????????

As crappy as it sounds, yes. And if the director is really that great of a director he already knows that HOA funds shouldn't be used like that. Imagine the next time an increase or special assessment is proposed..."We have enough money to be buying trophies for directors but now need an increase...."

I can hear it now. Just ask for donations. I'm sure you'd get it.

Well stated Douglas!!!

When was the last time either one of you cried foul when a public servant was given a going away present using public funds???????????????

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Public servants don't owe a fiduciary duty to the public.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

For real?

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 11/27/2017 2:15 PM
Public servants don't owe a fiduciary duty to the public.

If not the public, then who?

BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JanetB2 on 11/26/2017 9:20 PM

Posted By BarbaraT1 on 11/19/2017 7:09 PM

Social events do benefit all owners equally - it's their choice to attend or not. Should owners who choose not to use the pool be exempt from whatever percentage of assessments that pay for the pool? What if they don't look at the entrance landscaping, can they get out of paying for that, too?

Social events promote community harmony.

The issue is a social event can be scheduled when some owners CANNOT attend due to something beyond their control ... yet you want them to PAY for not being able to attend. Pool maintenance or entrance landscaping reference is not the same because the owners purchased in an HOA with those stated amenities known and the required upkeep. Essentially you have "Items in CCR's" vs "Parties not in CCR's". Plus you need to keep in mind various State Laws can differ on this subject. If you wanted to have social events in my state and expect everyone to pay for a few able to attend your parties I could hang you out to dry violating my state law.

I would contend social events should be Pot Lucks and BYOB for those who choose to attend. That is what we do every year in my HOA and it works just fine with those able to attend contributing and those who have other obligations, not being forced to pay for anything they did not have equal benefit.

So your criteria for social events is that they must be held at a time that is convenient for every single resident, and there must be some sort of guarantee that no resident has any kind of urgent situation or emergency that would prevent them from attending?

Also, the existence of social events - like the existence of a pool or entrance landscaping - can be determined prior to purchase simply by doing a little research.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think your position is unreasonable, as I'm sure you think mine.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Art's post above cites his HOA's docs. An excerpt says: "The annual Assessments levied by the Association shall be used exclusively....for promoting the....recreational opportunities of the Members of the Association and their families residing with them, their guests and tenants..."

SO some HOA's docs clearly show that dues can be used for recreation. Ours do not, but in my urban neighborhood of high rises, HOAs typically have a budget for social events--usually parties on the premises. Some hold perhaps 3 all year and we hold about 7. There are many residents who don't attend, but they do not complain about that fraction of their dues.

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 11/27/2017 2:10 PM

Posted By JanetB2 on 11/26/2017 8:52 PM

Posted By DouglasM6 on 11/21/2017 8:14 AM

Posted By RichardP13 on 11/18/2017 9:31 PM
So a director, on their own time, help manage a $1.5M reserve fund that paid the association over $40K annually, which help fund social events for the community, saved the association $500K over 10 years in water expenses and you say no to a stinking plaque after 8 years and they are leaving the community. REALLY?????????????

As crappy as it sounds, yes. And if the director is really that great of a director he already knows that HOA funds shouldn't be used like that. Imagine the next time an increase or special assessment is proposed..."We have enough money to be buying trophies for directors but now need an increase...."

I can hear it now. Just ask for donations. I'm sure you'd get it.

Well stated Douglas!!!

When was the last time either one of you cried foul when a public servant was given a going away present using public funds???????????????

I cried foul when the fire department of one city had it's big yearly ball/bash/party/meeting/seminar in another city and it cost 50K. I couldn't understand why that money wasn't spent in the home city of that fire department. Turns out, I was right. Does that count?

Just because nobody cries foul doesn't make it right. Right is right. You want to lean left a little, go for it. But it can certainly bite you in the arse. And in this case it would not require a majority either. All it would take is one resident to read the docs, and call a lawyer.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 11/27/2017 2:17 PM
If not the public, then who?

Mainly to those who donate to their campaigns.

There are many parallels between fiduciary duty and a public/elected official's ethics. Courts typically rule on whether or not a fiduciary duty has been breached, however this article points out that, "ourts will not substitute their judgment about what constitutes the public’s best interests when an elected official has made his or her best judgment on what serves the public’s interest. In our system of separated powers... Activities involved in implementing the law also involve some exercise of discretion with which the courts will not interfere."

There is generally no statutory fiduciary duty imposed on elected/public officials.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 11/27/2017 4:55 PM

Posted By RichardP13 on 11/27/2017 2:17 PM
If not the public, then who?

Mainly to those who donate to their campaigns.

There are many parallels between fiduciary duty and a public/elected official's ethics. Courts typically rule on whether or not a fiduciary duty has been breached, however this article points out that, "ourts will not substitute their judgment about what constitutes the public’s best interests when an elected official has made his or her best judgment on what serves the public’s interest. In our system of separated powers... Activities involved in implementing the law also involve some exercise of discretion with which the courts will not interfere."

There is generally no statutory fiduciary duty imposed on elected/public officials.

You need to do some research. The majority of public servants are not elected officials!

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DouglasM6 on 11/27/2017 4:48 PM

Posted By RichardP13 on 11/27/2017 2:10 PM

Posted By JanetB2 on 11/26/2017 8:52 PM

Posted By DouglasM6 on 11/21/2017 8:14 AM

Posted By RichardP13 on 11/18/2017 9:31 PM
So a director, on their own time, help manage a $1.5M reserve fund that paid the association over $40K annually, which help fund social events for the community, saved the association $500K over 10 years in water expenses and you say no to a stinking plaque after 8 years and they are leaving the community. REALLY?????????????

As crappy as it sounds, yes. And if the director is really that great of a director he already knows that HOA funds shouldn't be used like that. Imagine the next time an increase or special assessment is proposed..."We have enough money to be buying trophies for directors but now need an increase...."

I can hear it now. Just ask for donations. I'm sure you'd get it.

Well stated Douglas!!!

When was the last time either one of you cried foul when a public servant was given a going away present using public funds???????????????

I cried foul when the fire department of one city had it's big yearly ball/bash/party/meeting/seminar in another city and it cost 50K. I couldn't understand why that money wasn't spent in the home city of that fire department. Turns out, I was right. Does that count?

Just because nobody cries foul doesn't make it right. Right is right. You want to lean left a little, go for it. But it can certainly bite you in the arse. And in this case it would not require a majority either. All it would take is one resident to read the docs, and call a lawyer.

For 7 years, we had a annual budget of $10K for community events, with not one dime coming from assessments. If we chose to do something within the community, we did it. Again, no one's money was used. It was in the budget and it was transparent.

Not all HOA could do what we did, but it does not make it wrong. It is not illegal. You don't want to do it, then don't do it.There are large number of HOA's that did what we did, where do you think we learned it from?

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 11/27/2017 5:23 PM
You need to do some research. The majority of public servants are not elected officials!

Which would make it even more unlikely that anyone would ever impute a fiduciary duty upon them. Do your own research. Cam you cite any statute whatsoever that declares anyone in public office - whether elected or appointed - has a "fiduciary duty" to anyone? Ethical obligations are not the same thing as fiduciary duty.

AlexM1 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 287

Posted:

There is FAR too much corruption in the HOAs and vehemently against using HOA funds for such a ludicrous thing. The residents should be informed of this type of theft and object to the point of getting a lawyer and sue the HOA... Why are HOAs a source of monies fodr corruption?

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AlexM1 on 11/27/2017 7:02 PM
There is FAR too much corruption in the HOAs and vehemently against using HOA funds for such a ludicrous thing. The residents should be informed of this type of theft and object to the point of getting a lawyer and sue the HOA... Why are HOAs a source of monies fodr corruption?

It's called the "American Way"! Maybe I need to go back to Russia.

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 11/27/2017 5:36 PM

For 7 years, we had a annual budget of $10K for community events, with not one dime coming from assessments. If we chose to do something within the community, we did it. Again, no one's money was used. It was in the budget and it was transparent.

Not all HOA could do what we did, but it does not make it wrong. It is not illegal. You don't want to do it, then don't do it.There are large number of HOA's that did what we did, where do you think we learned it from?

I think that is the key right there. You have it budgeted in. In your case, residents probably expect some sort of community event(s) and will protest if the money is not used as budgeted. We have no such line item in our budget.

So the answer, once again, lies in the controlling documents.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AlexM1 on 11/27/2017 7:02 PM
There is FAR too much corruption in the HOAs and vehemently against using HOA funds for such a ludicrous thing. The residents should be informed of this type of theft and object to the point of getting a lawyer and sue the HOA... Why are HOAs a source of monies fodr corruption?

Corruption? Ludicrous things? Theft? Your ideas are intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

MikeK22 (California)
Posts: 19

Posted:

I hate to ask but do you really care about a token that might cost at MOST 100 dollars. I'm not saying that they should be doing it just that you need to pick your battles. I'm sure there was more than 100 dollars wasted that could have been found otherwise. You brought up your concerns and were out voted. Not a big deal.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MikeK22 on 11/29/2017 11:52 AM
I hate to ask but do you really care about a token that might cost at MOST 100 dollars. I'm not saying that they should be doing it just that you need to pick your battles. I'm sure there was more than 100 dollars wasted that could have been found otherwise. You brought up your concerns and were out voted. Not a big deal.

I agree.

PaininyourA
Posts: 215

Posted:

ditto

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BarbaraT1 on 11/27/2017 2:52 PM

Posted By JanetB2 on 11/26/2017 9:20 PM

Posted By BarbaraT1 on 11/19/2017 7:09 PM

Social events do benefit all owners equally - it's their choice to attend or not. Should owners who choose not to use the pool be exempt from whatever percentage of assessments that pay for the pool? What if they don't look at the entrance landscaping, can they get out of paying for that, too?

Social events promote community harmony.

The issue is a social event can be scheduled when some owners CANNOT attend due to something beyond their control ... yet you want them to PAY for not being able to attend. Pool maintenance or entrance landscaping reference is not the same because the owners purchased in an HOA with those stated amenities known and the required upkeep. Essentially you have "Items in CCR's" vs "Parties not in CCR's". Plus you need to keep in mind various State Laws can differ on this subject. If you wanted to have social events in my state and expect everyone to pay for a few able to attend your parties I could hang you out to dry violating my state law.

I would contend social events should be Pot Lucks and BYOB for those who choose to attend. That is what we do every year in my HOA and it works just fine with those able to attend contributing and those who have other obligations, not being forced to pay for anything they did not have equal benefit.

So your criteria for social events is that they must be held at a time that is convenient for every single resident, and there must be some sort of guarantee that no resident has any kind of urgent situation or emergency that would prevent them from attending?

Also, the existence of social events - like the existence of a pool or entrance landscaping - can be determined prior to purchase simply by doing a little research.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think your position is unreasonable, as I'm sure you think mine.

No ... my criteria is following my State Laws and CCR's. In my state I live in a Common Interest Community as defined:

(8) "Common interest community" means real estate described in a declaration with respect to which a person, by virtue of such person's ownership of a unit, is obligated to pay for real estate taxes, insurance premiums, maintenance, or improvement of other real estate described in a declaration. Ownership of a unit does not include holding a leasehold interest in a unit of less than forty years, including renewal options. The period of the leasehold interest, including renewal options, is measured from the date the initial term commences.

PLEASE show me where it lists PARTIES on top of the already noted expenses of insurance, maintenance, or improvement!!! Most states will have the same or very similar definition. Sorry I am NOT obligated to pay for anything more than what has been noted under my CCR's and State Laws. If certain owners want to get together then they can all pitch in and pay for it themselves ... not with money which is supposed to ONLY be used as defined under the State Laws.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Talk about Scooge!

I found monies through investment opportunities. I could have been lazy and but $1.5M into a money market account and made nothing, OR, I could gone the extra mileage and self funded the events. Don't like it, don't show up. It was all explained in the budget package. Too busy to read, too bad.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 12/02/2017 7:03 PM
Talk about Scooge!

I found monies through investment opportunities. I could have been lazy and but $1.5M into a money market account and made nothing, OR, I could gone the extra mileage and self funded the events. Don't like it, don't show up. It was all explained in the budget package. Too busy to read, too bad.

No Scrooge about it Richard ... most HOA's do not have $1.5M to invest in a money market account and then spend profits on parties. Also, it is simply in my area what is right vs wrong under the law ... we party but we do it via pot lucks and BYOB. That way any of us who attend are the individuals paying for our own fun vs foisting the cost onto others who may choose not to attend.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JanetB2 on 12/02/2017 6:49 PM

Posted By BarbaraT1 on 11/27/2017 2:52 PM

Posted By JanetB2 on 11/26/2017 9:20 PM

Posted By BarbaraT1 on 11/19/2017 7:09 PM

Social events do benefit all owners equally - it's their choice to attend or not. Should owners who choose not to use the pool be exempt from whatever percentage of assessments that pay for the pool? What if they don't look at the entrance landscaping, can they get out of paying for that, too?

Social events promote community harmony.

The issue is a social event can be scheduled when some owners CANNOT attend due to something beyond their control ... yet you want them to PAY for not being able to attend. Pool maintenance or entrance landscaping reference is not the same because the owners purchased in an HOA with those stated amenities known and the required upkeep. Essentially you have "Items in CCR's" vs "Parties not in CCR's". Plus you need to keep in mind various State Laws can differ on this subject. If you wanted to have social events in my state and expect everyone to pay for a few able to attend your parties I could hang you out to dry violating my state law.

I would contend social events should be Pot Lucks and BYOB for those who choose to attend. That is what we do every year in my HOA and it works just fine with those able to attend contributing and those who have other obligations, not being forced to pay for anything they did not have equal benefit.

So your criteria for social events is that they must be held at a time that is convenient for every single resident, and there must be some sort of guarantee that no resident has any kind of urgent situation or emergency that would prevent them from attending?

Also, the existence of social events - like the existence of a pool or entrance landscaping - can be determined prior to purchase simply by doing a little research.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think your position is unreasonable, as I'm sure you think mine.

No ... my criteria is following my State Laws and CCR's. In my state I live in a Common Interest Community as defined:

(8) "Common interest community" means real estate described in a declaration with respect to which a person, by virtue of such person's ownership of a unit, is obligated to pay for real estate taxes, insurance premiums, maintenance, or improvement of other real estate described in a declaration. Ownership of a unit does not include holding a leasehold interest in a unit of less than forty years, including renewal options. The period of the leasehold interest, including renewal options, is measured from the date the initial term commences.

PLEASE show me where it lists PARTIES on top of the already noted expenses of insurance, maintenance, or improvement!!! Most states will have the same or very similar definition. Sorry I am NOT obligated to pay for anything more than what has been noted under my CCR's and State Laws. If certain owners want to get together then they can all pitch in and pay for it themselves ... not with money which is supposed to ONLY be used as defined under the State Laws.

SHOW ME WHERE IT SAYS YOU CAN'T!

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 12/02/2017 10:05 PM

Posted By JanetB2 on 12/02/2017 6:49 PM

Posted By BarbaraT1 on 11/27/2017 2:52 PM

Posted By JanetB2 on 11/26/2017 9:20 PM

Posted By BarbaraT1 on 11/19/2017 7:09 PM

Social events do benefit all owners equally - it's their choice to attend or not. Should owners who choose not to use the pool be exempt from whatever percentage of assessments that pay for the pool? What if they don't look at the entrance landscaping, can they get out of paying for that, too?

Social events promote community harmony.

The issue is a social event can be scheduled when some owners CANNOT attend due to something beyond their control ... yet you want them to PAY for not being able to attend. Pool maintenance or entrance landscaping reference is not the same because the owners purchased in an HOA with those stated amenities known and the required upkeep. Essentially you have "Items in CCR's" vs "Parties not in CCR's". Plus you need to keep in mind various State Laws can differ on this subject. If you wanted to have social events in my state and expect everyone to pay for a few able to attend your parties I could hang you out to dry violating my state law.

I would contend social events should be Pot Lucks and BYOB for those who choose to attend. That is what we do every year in my HOA and it works just fine with those able to attend contributing and those who have other obligations, not being forced to pay for anything they did not have equal benefit.

So your criteria for social events is that they must be held at a time that is convenient for every single resident, and there must be some sort of guarantee that no resident has any kind of urgent situation or emergency that would prevent them from attending?

Also, the existence of social events - like the existence of a pool or entrance landscaping - can be determined prior to purchase simply by doing a little research.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think your position is unreasonable, as I'm sure you think mine.

No ... my criteria is following my State Laws and CCR's. In my state I live in a Common Interest Community as defined:

(8) "Common interest community" means real estate described in a declaration with respect to which a person, by virtue of such person's ownership of a unit, is obligated to pay for real estate taxes, insurance premiums, maintenance, or improvement of other real estate described in a declaration. Ownership of a unit does not include holding a leasehold interest in a unit of less than forty years, including renewal options. The period of the leasehold interest, including renewal options, is measured from the date the initial term commences.

PLEASE show me where it lists PARTIES on top of the already noted expenses of insurance, maintenance, or improvement!!! Most states will have the same or very similar definition. Sorry I am NOT obligated to pay for anything more than what has been noted under my CCR's and State Laws. If certain owners want to get together then they can all pitch in and pay for it themselves ... not with money which is supposed to ONLY be used as defined under the State Laws.

SHOW ME WHERE IT SAYS YOU CAN'T!

Already did ... as I noted above we are only OBLIGATED to pay for real estate taxes, insurance premiums, maintenance, or improvement of other real estate described in the declaration. The other real estate described in my declaration is our irrigation system and the cost is divided between the units based on their acreage size. Mine is one of the larger sized properties so my family pays more than many of my other neighbors, but we also have a larger allotted amount of irrigation water. Besides I have already discussed this in last HOA when developer BOD wanted to throw huge party using HOA money and I told them hope they have deep personal pockets. The developer attorney made them back down when pointed out what owners are obligated to pay.

Keep in mind many small HOA's do not have a lot of money and if they have been throwing parties and later need a "special assessment" to pay for something or have not properly maintained the common property ... they would have a hard time if an owner took them to court explaining why they had money in the past to party and now do not have money to properly maintain the common property. It would be a stupid position for any BOD to place themselves.