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JillS8 (California)
Posts: 101
Posted:
We have been dealing with legal in changing our rules. Long process so more questions.
CCRS have no driveway or street parking restrictions in our single family tract. Actually NO parking restrictions at all in CCRS. There is a rule saying no street parking that has never been enforced. We have no parking stalls or parking areas we are just a common street of homes. Can the board restrict street parking or driveway parking in rules if it's not restricted in CCRS. Can the board change the terms of the deed, that has no parking restrictions? Looking for clarification. Argumentt is that a rule most serve a purpose and be reasonable. The board did try to change CCRS but didn't get the vote. Any thoughts.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
First, you need to determine who owns the streets - go back to your documents and take a look. If they're city streets, the HOA may not have any control over that, although people would have to comply with whatever rules the city has regarding parking (e.g. no parking on the sidewalks or in front of fire hydrants).

You also need to read your documents to see how the documents can be amended - usually, the board is given authority to establish rules, but they can't contradict the Bylaws and CCRs and of course, local, state and federal may trump certain parts as well.

If people are proposing to establish rules on parking, put some order in the process and that's why you're correct that a rule must serve a purpose and be reasonable (although that's subject to debate depending on who you ask). To start, why not poll the homeowners on what they think are the biggest problems? Lots of inoperable vehicles littering the community? Are your streets so narrow that bunches of cars on the road make it hard to drive through? Has that caused problems for contractors with trucks or (even worse) first responders who need to get to a house that's on fire?

To assist the board, it could charter a special committee that would look at this stuff and come up with some proposals. As part of this process, the association attorney should be consulted so they'll know what can or can't be done, not to mention the minefields you will run into when you try to enforce all this. From there, the committee could send the proposals out to the community for more comments and tweak as needed before running the amended rules past the attorney and finally to the board for its approval. That won't be the end - the board will likely have to call a special homeowners meeting to discuss the proposals and have a vote.

If you don't own the streets, you can still determine what your problems are and perhaps talk to local police to see what can be done, such as ask them to do extra patrols.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Jill

While I dare not answer for CA, in many states (such as here in SC) if the Covenants say no overnight street parking because the owners agreed to such and that is what matters. Our streets are public but our Covenants ban overnight parking so we can fine owners if one does park overnight and this includes their guests as per the Covenants.

JillS8 (California)
Posts: 101
Posted:
Thank you. Our Covenants do not address street parking or parking at all EXCEPT for storing non operable vehicles behind a fence. I'm trying to see both sides but see no reasonable explanation and no legal way it can be enforced.
JillS8 (California)
Posts: 101
Posted:
Thank you. Our Covenants do not address street parking or parking at all EXCEPT for storing non operable vehicles behind a fence. I'm trying to see both sides but see no reasonable explanation and no legal way it can be enforced.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Jill,

This is my thought. If the roads are public, any parking restrictions will need to be within the covenants.

If the roads are private, Boards typically have broad authority on regulations regarding the use of common areas. Similar to setting pool hours, the Board could set no parking hours.
JillS8 (California)
Posts: 101
Posted:
We do own the streets so I understand we can make rules regarding them, but owners say because there aren't any parking restrictions in the CCRS the board can't add them, making rules more restrictive than CCRS. I have not heard any reason that these restrictions would benefit our community at this point.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Rules cannot conflict with covenants.

However, covenants being silent (i.e. not mentioning parking at all) doesn't mean that there is a conflict.

If the covenants did specify anything about parking, then one could argue
Expressio Unius Est Exclusio Alterius. This simply means that the mention of one thing excludes all others.

So if the Covenants said no parking in the driveway, then, using this argument, the covenants are saying you can park anywhere else. Reversely, if the covenants said parking must be in the garage or on the driveway, then the argument would be that you may not park vehicles elsewhere.

However, if the covenants don't mention parking at all, then the Board can certainly adopt rules regarding parking on common areas.

You also said that you haven't heard of a reason for the parking restriction. Have you asked the Board for the reason?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Jill

I bet with the streets being private that somewhere in your docs would be a way to control what happens on/to them such as parking. Reread looking for a way to limit parking like maybe under controlling common elements.
PaininyourA
Posts: 215
Posted:
probably something 'akin' to:

the BOD may make rules and regulations governing the use of the common elements ...............
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaininyourA on 11/01/2017 11:47 AM
probably something 'akin' to:

the BOD may make rules and regulations governing the use of the common elements ...............

I agree.
JillS8 (California)
Posts: 101
Posted:
I reread all our Docuements and the CA law regarding Common Interest Developments that trump the CCRS and we believe parking can't be restricted on our private streets for the folllowing reasons

Use restrictions under "vehicles" section does not restrict parking anywhere but does say commercial vehicles, inoperable vehicles, mast be stored behind fence line .
Adding a rule must serve a purpose the board has no reason they can give us.
Adding a rule must be reasonable...telling homeowners to park blocks away, outside our gated community is not reasonable.
Our community is 15 years old there has never been a parking issue and there still is not. Parking has never been enforced.

I thank everyone for their opinions. Always good to get both sides from this site.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Jill, you wrote: "There is a rule saying no street parking that has never been enforced." Where is this rule? Is it in a document that might be called a Rules and Regulations?

In the definitions a the beginning of your CC&Rs, is there any reference to the rules document?

And, with Pain, do check one more time in your CC&Rs for anything that says the Association may make rules, restrictions or something similar concerning the common areas.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 11/01/2017 7:29 AM
Rules cannot conflict with covenants.

However, covenants being silent (i.e. not mentioning parking at all) doesn't mean that there is a conflict.

If the covenants did specify anything about parking, then one could argue
Expressio Unius Est Exclusio Alterius. This simply means that the mention of one thing excludes all others.

So if the Covenants said no parking in the driveway, then, using this argument, the covenants are saying you can park anywhere else. Reversely, if the covenants said parking must be in the garage or on the driveway, then the argument would be that you may not park vehicles elsewhere.

However, if the covenants don't mention parking at all, then the Board can certainly adopt rules regarding parking on common areas.

You also said that you haven't heard of a reason for the parking restriction. Have you asked the Board for the reason?



I agree with Tim. Potentially as the property is Owned by the HOA the Board can make "Reasonable Rules", especially if the BOD could prove any such rule would preserve the health, safety, and welfare of the HOA community.

LOL ... on other hand if your were NOT private streets I would definately argue for public property rights.

As many have noted ... it can depend on who owns property as to who has most rights.
JillS8 (California)
Posts: 101
Posted:
Rule is in Rule and Regulations and says no street parking between 2 and 5 am. .
Recheck the CCRS and maybe because our only common area are the streets and a few planters it does not specifically mention rules for common areas.

If it does and I missed it, I would say that I agree that they can make parking rules if they are reasonable and serve a purpose. As for the CCRS giving the board authority to make those rules, they would interfere with ones right to enjoy,net of their property by making them park blocks away and hike into their properties.
I have spoken to the board and they give no reason except they don't want cars in front of their homes which is comepletely unreasonable.
JillS8 (California)
Posts: 101
Posted:
Understand rules can't conflict with covenants but they also can't be more restrictive than Covanants.. adding something that bans something is more restrictive.

We have sat with attorney once and unfortunately not must clarity except be really specific and that parking is a hot issue that management companies don't like to deal with so ours says they suggest we hire off site parking patrol. Again, ridiculous and not needed at this point.
Thanks for your help. I like knowing both side from owners and legal before I vote.

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