ARB Denying completed projects

Started by AlexisL • 14 replies • 1367 views

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AlexisL (Florida)
Posts: 2

Posted:

Good Evening all,

My question is this...our ARB (or ARC) is receiving applications from homeowners to approve already completed projects (building a large paver patio, e.g). We have kicked those applications back to the management company as we feel those applications should not have even come to us. They should be going directly to the HOA as there is nothing for us to "approve" or "deny" as we have no idea how the project was completed / not completed or if done so properly/improperly. The management company is stating we must deny the application before it will be forwarded to the HOA. This is a chicken or the egg scenario. The ARB does not feel we should be reviewing since there is too much "unknown" and on the other hand, the management company doesn't want to look like the bad guy by letting the homeowner know since the project is already completed it must now go to the HOA. We live in Florida, and are unclear as to our abilities to say "no" as the ARB. We have reviewed our HOA docs and can find no such answer to our dilemma. Any help is very much appreciated. TIA!

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Alexis,

Welcome to the Forum.

Does the ARB have the authority to approve/disapprove requests or do they simply make recommendations?

When you reviewed those applications, were they in compliance with the covenants and guidelines - or did the committee not even review the application?

Our Architectural Committee doesn't get into how the change will be constructed. They simply want to know what materials are used, what will it look like when finished and does the request comply with our covenants and architectural guidelines. They let the County worry about the building codes. The committee are volunteers who may or may not understand codes and construction to even say if something was completed properly or not. That's what code enforcement and permits are for. I say, let the professionals worry about that part of it.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Tim nailed it. Why should the ARB worry about how something is going to be done? Is that a specific job of your ARB? Or is your ARB, like most, tasked solely with appearance?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 10/25/2017 8:36 PM
Alexis,

Welcome to the Forum.

Does the ARB have the authority to approve/disapprove requests or do they simply make recommendations?

When you reviewed those applications, were they in compliance with the covenants and guidelines - or did the committee not even review the application?

Our Architectural Committee doesn't get into how the change will be constructed. They simply want to know what materials are used, what will it look like when finished and does the request comply with our covenants and architectural guidelines. They let the County worry about the building codes. The committee are volunteers who may or may not understand codes and construction to even say if something was completed properly or not. That's what code enforcement and permits are for. I say, let the professionals worry about that part of it.

Good advice.

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AlexisL on 10/25/2017 8:08 PM
Good Evening all,

My question is this...our ARB (or ARC) is receiving applications from homeowners to approve already completed projects (building a large paver patio, e.g). We have kicked those applications back to the management company as we feel those applications should not have even come to us. They should be going directly to the HOA as there is nothing for us to "approve" or "deny" as we have no idea how the project was completed / not completed or if done so properly/improperly. The management company is stating we must deny the application before it will be forwarded to the HOA. This is a chicken or the egg scenario. The ARB does not feel we should be reviewing since there is too much "unknown" and on the other hand, the management company doesn't want to look like the bad guy by letting the homeowner know since the project is already completed it must now go to the HOA. We live in Florida, and are unclear as to our abilities to say "no" as the ARB. We have reviewed our HOA docs and can find no such answer to our dilemma. Any help is very much appreciated. TIA!

I agree that this is not a function of the ARB. If it's already built, you have nothing to do with it, unless the appearance is out of line with the covenants. If it is out of line, then you could request the BOD get involved.

But I second, or third, what Tim said. Great advice!

AlexisL (Florida)
Posts: 2

Posted:

Thank you all for your responses. Yes, the ARB has the authority to approve and/or deny, but as mentioned it is just for materials used so on and so forth. IT is correct to say the ARB does not know how/legally something is being done/constructed - that is on the county. I think I confused everyone - including myself with the question!

Here's the thing - Projects are being completed (Without prior approval from the ARB - which is specifically stated in our docs) and then homeowners are sending the applications in to the ARB for "requests for approval". Construction has already been completed so what is the ARB approving or denying? Instead of denying the application is the ARB legally able to forgo even looking at the application and sending straight to the HOA? The ARB feels that there is nothing for them to approve or deny because it is no longer an ARB issue. For lack of a better term - its an "already built" issue and becomes an issue for the HOA to deal with... It just seems very catch 22 and extremely difficult for this group of volunteers to navigate. Sorry for the confusion...

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Alexis,

We had similar issues when I served on our Architectural committee.

The committee should still consider the application as if construction wasn't started.

If the application doesn't violate covenants and complies with guidelines, approve it and in the approval specify the need to seek prior approval for future projects.

If the application does violate a covenant or doesn't comply with guidelines, then disapprove it and send it to the Board as an enforcement issue (making changes without prior approval).

The committee choosing to not do anything can cause more problems.
Example: I want to paint my house yellow and submit a request.
Committee denies request.
I appeal the decision because the committee didn't disapprove a similar request for xyz.
Basically, by not approving or disapproving - i.e. doing nothing, the committee is sending the message that prior approval isn't needed. Just go ahead and do it then send in the request - it won't be denied.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

You also can run into issues depending on your State Laws. In my State if an owner submits something for approval and not approved in X time period. It can be assumed by the homeowner that the items requested have been approved. Some states have done this because some HOAs in past were dragging their feet on approving ACC requests. You need to address as Tim noted.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

My HOA's CCRs say the board may delegate Architectural control to a committee but the board is ultimately responsible for the final decisions. I don't understand why your MC is in the middle there. If that situation were to occur here, the committee, not knowing how to proceed, would kick the request up to the full board for a decision no matter what the MC said.

As is usually the case, the answers lie in your governing documents, and if yours don't address the situation then the board should decide. Not the management company.

I've seen CCRs in Florida that say an ARC request that isn't answered within a certain timeframe is automatically deemed approved, but the statutes are silent on the issue. An owner can't rely on "30 days without a response" to assume the request has been approved.

SmartS (Florida)
Posts: 49

Posted:

I agree, our new Board is challenging the building department inspector to try and punish a homeowner. Sa living in Lord of the Flies! Great response Tim

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SmartS on 11/27/2020 1:45 PM
I agree, our new Board is challenging the building department inspector to try and punish a homeowner. Sa living in Lord of the Flies! Great response Tim

A 3 year old post Smart, not smart. Stop searching for answers you want.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 10/25/2017 8:36 PM
Does the ARB have the authority to approve/disapprove requests or do they simply make recommendations?

This is the first question to be answered. If your governing documents don't empower an architectural review committee, then the board doesn't have the authority to just appoint one and delegate any authority to it at all.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

... and it's a 3-year old thread. Blimey.

SmartS (Florida)
Posts: 49

Posted:

Hi John, not sure why you must say I am not smart?
I do know Carolina law is not controlling in FL.
And in this thread I made a statement, and complimented another person posting.
Searching for answers seems to be the purpose of this site, wouldn't you agree?
Have a great evening and Smile!

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