CC&R question

What is the exact language of the CCR's that specifies a 90% threshold approval? It does not make sense that the lawyers would draft language calling for a 75% approval contrary to your governing documents.

Suggest you not bother to ask; READ and put your concerns in writing. It is very easy to brush off and "misunderstand" a question when verbalizing these kinds of things on the fly. According to your comment, you are already being brushed aside. That is easy to do when one is not in possession of the facts.

Reading and comprehending the requirements of your governance and statutory law is a jumping off point to questions. There is no way to evaluate "ethics" until all the facts are on the table.

Oh and there is 1 lot which is still owned by the development company

I may have made some typing errors but I did write as it is written in the papers I was given .

The papers are for a rental cap I believe this is the term for reducing homes which are used as rentals and not owner occupied .

There is one lot we did not even know about the lot till someone went to question the man running the bulldozer .There is no sign up that its for sale .Its been cleared but it is a small lot and would need much work if someone wanted to place a home on it .

Currently we are unsure of the number of homes in our part of the subdivision ( its one subdivision but we are under separate PMC and have separate hoa 's alos ) I have always heard 177 but looking up the tax records I can only count 166 .Out of those according to the records at least 39 of these are non owner occupied homes as best as I can tell by the record

I hesitate to upload the papers because I am not wanting to mention the name as I have been told its against the rules anyway .

The papers are the ones I was given at closing from the realtor

That is what I thought yet why would a lawyer be drafting up new papers now ,I find that confusing .

Yes I can see it on the top page there is a persons name and there is a date and then some code numbers

No it is not on every page ,and it is not on the page with the article I wrote about and its only on 2 pages these page appear to be very similar with only slight differences .Never have been in an hoa so I have no idea what it should look like .We closed and the realtor gave us these papers ,to be honest I never really looked at the papers till after we had been in here for about a year .
At that time I asked some questions about who was on the hoa .At the time I asked no one knew who or if there was one .Found out there was 1 person but the person did not want anyone to know who they were .At a meeting last year 3 people volunteered to be on said board and the PMC placed one as the president .
Since then one has quit and not been replaced the other 3 want to keep their position .I am taking issue with 2 of the 3 because I feel that they are to busy with their regular work to be as on hand as needed right now .
I do not like the current PMC company even have sent a registered letter asking about a contract as has one member of the current hoa and we are not getting any answers .
I am a bit worried on how the meeting is going to be that we do have coming up .
I don't trust this PMC at all .
Anyway thank you for your help

Now since my papers do not have this stamping how would I get one which does ?I would think everyone here has papers similar to mine .

I'm going to step back a little here. You Hear lawyers are drafting up papers?? From Whom? Why would the lawyers have to draft up papers saying 75% when it'll go to 75% soon anyway. It is possible the developer is closing a deal on that last lot and that will remove the 90% stipulation. The lawyer, if there is one involved, may be making the changes in preparation for the turn over.

You have another problem to solve ahead of the one you posted about--and that concerns taking a close look at your documents, AS RECORDED. There is something sketchy about how you are describing your documents.

You will hear only what the Board wants you to know at the meeting. Be Prepared. It helps to know the basic answers before the questions are asked.

Most counties have an online database of public documents that can be freely accessed. If you want to PM me with the county in which your subdivision is located, and give me a property address and name of subdivsion, it is quick and easy to lookup. I am [email protected]

If not online, you can go directly to the county office where records are recorded.

It is unknown where your title company got the documents you were given but I have heard that sometimes they get them from the Seller of the property and sometimes from the realtor handling the sale. People can assume that the papers they are given are real, but that is not always the case. I know this all too well from personal experience.

Probably because I am not very good at typing ,and was never very good in my English classes. Sorry I am getting a little better with not having to hunt and peck than I was in the beginning.

Go in person to your register of deeds.
Tell them you're looking for any restrictions that are attached to your deed and that you want to get a copy of the document(s) as they're recorded.

Personally, I would not trust that anything available online is complete or up to date.

I did some calling ,I talked to some one in the land registration office ,she told me that they only stamp the first page of the CC&R .

I am wondering though if I do have all the papers .When I asked about them changing the date from the 90 to 75 per cent .I was told a certain article and section .After pouring through what I have I cannot find that particular section .

I just find this is getting odder and odder

I have to figure out who to contact about getting the CC&R .I spoke with the lady from the land registration office she did not seem to know where I could get them .

So I googled to see what CC&R should look like ,since this is my first time ever dealing with these things .
Not sure if what I was viewing is the normal way for them to look if so ours looks so bad in comparison .

Again I will try and figure out how to find them .

First I really do not know what the land registration is I just found it by looking at the county web site .

Second I did manage to find the register of deed web site but all they had was things I all ready know .( property address dates of when it was bought and sold )

What I am trying to figure out is

A. The paper work I was given by the realtor at the closing is accurate

B. If there has been a change why were we not informed on this

C.Why would they waste time making a change by 1 year ?

D. After looking at many law office web sites seems that even if they somehow approve a cap its usually not held up in court
E. How do I get a accurate CC&R and Bylaws ?I thought I did have them yet the document
and article section I was told to look for is not in my papers .

F. How can a law firm write up new amendments when the papers say other wise ?

Sorry I just am not trusting anyone at this point and I am feeling like I am swimming up stream .

Good advice Geno. Lori originally referred to the land registration office so this term was referenced back; however, it is not term in common use. Communication is easier when all use the same commonly-understood terms.

I understand from Lori that she wasn't very good in English classes and this makes it more difficult for her.
Additionally, I think Lori has entered a strange land of specialized knowledge and is trying to get up to speed to find out how the pieces fit. I offered to do the lookup for her off the board to help speed the inquiry process and direct her to the correct path to find her resource.

@Lori: Too many questions at this early stage. You need to answer Question A. You FIRST need to have the facts; what do your documents say? You must identify the Article that your board is referring to as it is actually written/recorded. Other questions/answers will flow from that.

Okay my papers were given by the realtor at closing .
Secretary of hoa cited a certain article and section again which I don't seem to have,and glancing through it,I don't even think that whoever wrote them up is not good with Roman Numerals .

Okay I found the deed of registration web site ,after much searching all I can find on that site has to do with mortgages.
I did not see anything other than that,checked every box offered on the site and could not find any cc&r on that site .

Found another site which did say search by subdivision I put mine in and nothing came up,which how I ended up calling the land deed office,who also did not know why the subdivision was not there nor anything about how to get cc&r .

Here is my interpretation of the article.

The Declaration may be amended
A) prior to October 1, 2018
1) by an instrument signed by both
a) the owners of not less than 90% of the lots
b) the Declarant, so long as the declarant still owns any lots
B) there after
1) by an instrument signed by owners of not less than 75% of the lots

I found the site but there is no way to search for subdivision .They give an option to search by address which I did but did not see anything new .It just shows who owns what property .

It can be done. It takes 90% to make a change until Oct 2018. You could get 90% to approve making it less prior to Oct 2018.

I under Declarant control the Declarant may well control enough vote to do so. Even if not under Declarant control, 90% voting in favor could do it.

We had a similar issue. We needed the larger majority to vote to change something to a lesser majority. We did it.

I say you can change it now to 75% if 90% agree to it.

@Lori-you are becoming discouraged; I can hear your fatigue and confusion.

We might be able to help you find your way but not without more information.

The facts that you need are in the recorded CCR's. What you have received is documents that have not been revealed to be complete, comprehensible or true. There is only one source and that is the public record. The fact that you cannot identify provisions cited by others suggests that the documents in your possession may have been altered or tainted.

There is only one way to know and that is to identify documents recorded in the public record. Your bylaws might not be recorded and this can be problematic, but the Covenants and Restrictions MUST be on record and that is where your amendment provision is found. It is this provision that is odd and which you cannot find in your documents. This can usually be discovered easily by calling up the online public records for your homeowner association. These documents are almost always available online as most public records are now digitized. The document will reference the Plat and that will identify the # of parcels.

Remember that "what you have been told" must be discounted or given a Healthy Dose of Skepticism until you determine the facts. You do not have to "count" or guess to find this out--or wait for the next meeting.

On the subject of Caps on Rentals, it is a very sketchy deal to try to attempt an end run around homeowners who have already accepted deeds with a promise--the Covenants--that do not contain a rental limitation or put one on notice that a limitation might be placed in the future. These kinds of material, "vested property interests" typically require 100% agreement by the Owners. Sometimes, they can be passed as a voluntary restriction on owners who agree to be bound by a restriction on rentals.

Personally, I think owners are asking for trouble by passing such a rental cap amendment unless Covenants clearly permit such a cap. I see a progression in community life that will inevitably become a rental community as original buyer-owners pass on or move on... I don't believe that amendments can do anything more than stick a puny finger in the dike and at worst, cause expensive litigation that comes back to bite an HOA and cast further shadows of doubt.

A very true statement.

Individuals may truly believe what they are telling you is the truth and factual. Problem is, they may have been told that from another individual who was informed by a different individual, etc. etc.

Trust but verify.

Thank you I will try and search out a HOA attorney and am still trying to figure out where those documents would be located online at .