Help! Me and Another Board Member are Getting Kicked Off the Board

Started by AngelaW8 • 53 replies • 1756 views

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AngelaW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 24

Posted:

Some homeowners and 3 board members are trying to get me and another Board member off. A homeowner got two petitions that day a bunch of lies about us and they are getting people's signatures without us even getting to defend ourselves. They say all they need is 53 signatures. We are supposed to have a meeting in 10 days and I don't know how to defend myself against lies. They aren't listening. Is it even going to matter if they have the signatures? Someone please help.

Angie

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Angela,

The petitions should be for a meeting of the general membership for the purpose of recalling Directors a & b.

At that meeting, you should have an opportunity to make a statement.

If people are unwilling to listen, then it won't matter what is said or isn't said.

As far as defending yourself against lies, you tell the truth and ask for proof.

AngelaW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 24

Posted:

On Mary's petition they called her a "stalker" with no evidence and people who signed the petition saw that. Can't they be sued for defamation of character?

CarlJ2 (Texas)
Posts: 194

Posted:

Angela, please try to refrain from using specific names though a common first name is fairly benign. I know this is a trying time though so it's easy to mention specific names and places reflexively. Sadly the board has no edit function so you can't go back and fix an, "oops".

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/11/2017 2:32 AM

Can't they be sued for defamation of character?

That is a legal question and one you will have to have a local attorney advise you on.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Stop, breath, and relax. I had the same thing happen to me and I even quit. In the end, it turned out to be no big deal. People knee jerk react. Once the knee goes down the ears go up. Worst case? Your removed from the board. Guess what? You can run again. Take it as a break and a regroup. Get your bearings. Plus it gives times for those lies to expose themselves. They always do. I know, 6 months later I was get apology phone calls and told all the lies that went on about me.

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Angela

Typically the procedure to recall an elected BOD Member is for a Special Meeting to be called. To call such a meeting there will have to be a specific number of people doing so. Usually like 10 to 20% of owners.

The Special Meeting has to be for defined purpose like recall Mary and Ted and replace them with Sue and Harry.

Theoretically at that meeting those being recalled will be allowed to speak then voting will take place. Voting for Sue to replace Mary. Then a separate vote for Harry to replace Ted. Typically it will require 51% of those present voting to do so to make it happen.

One way you can fight this is to gather Proxies that you control. Have enough Proxies and you can defeat any motion. Look up General Proxy. One that gives the Proxy holder (you) the right to vote the Proxy as you see fit.

For what reasons are they trying to recall you two? Could you two be the BOD Members from he!!?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

You go to the meeting and defend yourself by addressing each "lie", starting with the most damming and go from there. You might also want to do a little recon - see if there are neighbors who know where all this is coming from so you'll know how to respond if they're actually ballsy enough to get up and call you a liar. Demand verifiable proof of whatever you're being accused of - if some of this is a misunderstanding, you can clear that up, but if these people are hell bent on getting rid of you, let them present their case and you present yours.

Only you know if these people have a valid argument or not, so at this point, you may as well be honest about everything. If it's a bunch of BS, say so and let the people decide. If they want to pick people based on damned lies, they'll probably get what they deserve, but you can decide how YOU will respond, so act with integrity in all things and let the Creator (or karma) take care of the rest.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/11/2017 2:32 AM
On Mary's petition they called her a "stalker" with no evidence and people who signed the petition saw that. Can't they be sued for defamation of character?

Sure. You can sue anyone for just about anything these days, though I suspect it would be for libel in this case. Mary should consult with an attorney.

Regarding the petition, what is it a petition for EXACTLY?
As Tim said, the petition should be for a special meeting for the purpose of a recall vote. It should NOT be for an actual recall, unless your governing documents permit a recall by petition, which seems unlikely.

Check your documents for the specific wording and requirements for a petition to the board
If the petition doesn't meet those rules, advise the rest of the board that the petition does not meet the requirements
You may well have to seek relief in court to force the rest of the board to follow their own rules

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/11/2017 2:32 AM
On Mary's petition they called her a "stalker" with no evidence and people who signed the petition saw that. Can't they be sued for defamation of character?

False light is a better bet. For either defamation, libel or slander, "Mary" would have to show, from the start, that she was hurt financially in specific dollar amounts. (It is too much of a stretch to say to the court, "Mary was removed from the HOA board, and this hurt her home's value.") On the other hand, if this falsehood gets out and Mary cannot, say, find employment because of it, then a claim of defamation may be appropriate.

I suggest Mary consider writing a letter to those people who circulated the malicious falsehoods about her, informing them they must retract the false claims or they may face legal action from her, for placing her in a false light and defamation. Use the word "malicious," as it may be key subsequently in any legal action against these folks.

Google on "false light" for more information. Bear in mind Mary is likely a "public figure." Being a public figure changes the requirements for a successful tort claim here.

JohnB83 (South Carolina)
Posts: 124

Posted:

OP,

Thank the petitioners and wish your replacement(s) best of luck.

Your unpaid, thankless, volunteer work is now done.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 10/11/2017 6:00 AM

One way you can fight this is to gather Proxies that you control. Have enough Proxies and you can defeat any motion. Look up General Proxy. One that gives the Proxy holder (you) the right to vote the Proxy as you see fit.

If other owners support you, try to get them to come to the meeting in person to keep the meeting from becoming too one-sided.

Quote:

Posted By JohnB83 on 10/11/2017 8:07 AM

Thank the petitioners and wish your replacement(s) best of luck.
Your unpaid, thankless, volunteer work is now done.

I have a lot of sympathy for this point of view too.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

AngelaW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 24

Posted:

More information:

The guy pursuing these petitions was on the Board this year and a neighbor that didn't like him was able to get him off the Board because his name was not on the condo deed and therefore he was not a homeowner. He is still upset about this, but we had to follow the bylaws. This same guy got into an argument with one of our contractors (they knew each other from the gym) and the police almost had to be called. After that happened, the Board got rid of that contractor (I was not on the board at the time). when I came on, I heard the story from this guy (on the board) and thought the contractor sounded like a nut, however, later I found out the homeowners liked this contractor and he did good work at a fair price. I was on the Board to work for the homeowners and not this guy board member, so me and "M" tried to get the contractor back. This guy on the board went ballistic at the HOA meeting and I even thought he was going to hit me. From then on, I have stayed away from him. He has went after "M" calling her names and last night I found out that he had said he would kill her. The guy is a ticking time bomb. "M" is supposed to go to the police today to file a report. This guy was at the meeting last night and threatened "M's" husband to call the police - so he did and they showed up. This same guy had been after me at a couple of the meetings following me and yelling in my face to the point I had to tell him to back off or I was going to call the police. Last night, this guy said that he and a guy neighbor of mine who he is in cahoots with said they had gone to the police and that "M" was being under 24 hour surveillance - which can't be true because no officer has called "M".

What they are saying about me is that I am "rushing forward to approve payment for painting done on Bldg even though the work bid out and billed for was incomplete". We had 3 VOTES to ok this - me, "M" and another Board member, but only me and "M" are being singed out to resign.

They are saying also that I'm "promoting and accelerating the approval of the rebuild of the trash stalls with new untested materials which are now faulty and require further maintenance and investment." For this, the Board had actually voted against me for cedar and I had voted for composite. The guy we ok'd to do it said he could get the composite (after a previous contractor fell through from not being able to get composite) so I, "M" and another Board member said it was ok to get the composite - 3 votes. This guy that was supposed to do the job was brought on by my guy neighbor that is in cahoots with the guy that was knocked off the board. He ended up doing the job incorrectly and used nails instead of screws. How is that my fault? If the guy didn't feel comfortable using the composite then don't accept the job. Only me and "M" are being blamed and not the third board member who also voted.

Then they have me as "approving payment of additional invoices from this company that were unsubstantiated and not part of the original bid." This is the company that the guy on the Board that was knocked off had gotten into a fight with and the police almost had to be called. This is also the company that me and "M" tried to get back to do work.

They are talking about my personal conduct saying that I'm bullying people and harassing people, but they have too and I have the emails.

They don't want me on the board because I want an assessment to do the decks that are falling apart. A lot of the people we have here are starting to not be able to afford it here. We just raised the dues and got a lot of flack back. We have no money. The current board keeps thinking that they can just do about 3 decks a year when we have over 80 decks and they are already over 35 years old. Some are unstable.

Before I got on the board, again, they past board had taken the buildings off of a painting schedule and planned to paint them on a needed basis. I got back on and changed that back to a schedule. The decks are going to be the problem, but these people do not want to hear "assessment" and I also said that we could always close the pool for a summer and save ourselves $7000, but no, that will never be an option. So these people that have it in for me and "M" are getting signatures by lying and saying that if I am still on the board they may get an assessment and that I also want to do away completely with the pool. I didn't even say that - I said close for a summer! These people signed this petition without even hearing our side of the story! The whole thing just makes me sick. Some of those people we know. They never had a problem always going to "M" with their complaints and using "M's" husband for all of their dirty work. It is all personal.

I'm not even going to defend myself because I've already been convicted with these people signing these petitions. I am just going to tell them that I don't want to represent people who are so quick to condemn someone without even hearing the other side of the story. No one has every been kicked off the board. I still can't believe this is happening. And to call "M" a "stalker"? Really? I just want away from all these idiots, but I live with them and they control the money to the HOA.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

The worst thing you could do is "fight fire with fire". It's best if it's not true to bite your tongue, smile, and laugh it off. Why? People listen to the calmest person in the room. Once the time is appropriate then you spell out your case. A person who tries to incite excitement is trying to bring you down to their level. Don't do it. If you can not hold your breath for 5 - 10 seconds between inflammatory statements, then that is all they are. It's to get a response.

I learned to just laugh it off and nod my head. If that is what they want to believe then it is believed. If you want to listen to what I've got to say, you will listen. Otherwise not wasting my breath explaining myself to justify your issues. What you don't like about me isn't what I don't like about me.

Former HOA President

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Well, my advice hasn’t changed, although I’d add JohnB83’s advice as well (aka the poster formerly known as PITA!) Unfortunately, we live in a society where people are incapable of discussing issues in a thoughtful manner – they think debate consists of name calling, lies, half-truths, exaggeration and yelling so loud it gets everyone riled up to the point they’ll go along with anything the loudmouth has to say.

(Just look at what’s going on in Washington these days – I don’t think I see this much drama on those reality shows! At least they’re funnier and those people aren’t making decisions that may take decades to undo if they’re wrong).

It sounds like you’d rather give up and I can certainly understand not wanting the stress, especially when it seems some people would rather take the easy way out and the rest don’t know what the hell is going on and like it that way. But I’d still let them know how and why I did what I did, without name calling and sticking to the facts. Then you can say “All of you have the right to elect whoever you want, but that also means you’ll live with the consequences. I know what I did and why and if you want to hear my side, I’ll answer any questions you may have. If all you want to do is yell and scream, or you’ve already made up your mind without talking to me or regardless of what I say, do you, but I’m not a punching bag and I will not sit here and let my integrity be attacked because people refuse to behave like adults.” Then resign, walk out and don't look back. Let time and karma deal with the rest.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

If the contractor was fired, or removed, or whatever you want to call it, by the previous Board, then the current Board probably should not have brought them back. Root cause.

I'm sorry, I don't have any advice on what to do except "remain calm" kill them with kindness type stuff, but others have said that.

AngelaW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 24

Posted:

Me and "M" are not going to the meeting. They are just getting the signatures from petitions that are telling lies. We don't get to defend ourselves because we are already seen as guilty. I'm not going to go to that meeting and be further humiliated like I'm on trial. I told the management company to let me know if they have enough signatures - that they have to be homeowners and not renters and current on dues, then send me the list. He already said they can't keep us off forever.

I'm just worried about "M". She's going to have a harder time with it than me and I'm having a pretty hard time. Once I'm over it, I have more fun on the other side of the table anyway.

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/11/2017 1:36 PM
More information:

The guy pursuing these petitions was on the Board this year and a neighbor that didn't like him was able to get him off the Board because his name was not on the condo deed and therefore he was not a homeowner. He is still upset about this, but we had to follow the bylaws. This same guy got into an argument with one of our contractors (they knew each other from the gym) and the police almost had to be called. After that happened, the Board got rid of that contractor (I was not on the board at the time). when I came on, I heard the story from this guy (on the board) and thought the contractor sounded like a nut, however, later I found out the homeowners liked this contractor and he did good work at a fair price. I was on the Board to work for the homeowners and not this guy board member, so me and "M" tried to get the contractor back. This guy on the board went ballistic at the HOA meeting and I even thought he was going to hit me. From then on, I have stayed away from him. He has went after "M" calling her names and last night I found out that he had said he would kill her. The guy is a ticking time bomb. "M" is supposed to go to the police today to file a report. This guy was at the meeting last night and threatened "M's" husband to call the police - so he did and they showed up. This same guy had been after me at a couple of the meetings following me and yelling in my face to the point I had to tell him to back off or I was going to call the police. Last night, this guy said that he and a guy neighbor of mine who he is in cahoots with said they had gone to the police and that "M" was being under 24 hour surveillance - which can't be true because no officer has called "M".

Personal safety should be your, and “M’s” number one concern. Right or wrong this guy sounds like a mental case.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/11/2017 1:36 PM

What they are saying about me is that I am "rushing forward to approve payment for painting done on Bldg even though the work bid out and billed for was incomplete". We had 3 VOTES to ok this - me, "M" and another Board member, but only me and "M" are being singed out to resign.

This is the problem with making decisions that deal with large amounts of money and/or big changes without the membership. Yes, three votes can legally do it, but a membership meeting and an affirmative vote from the membership would show that the majority agrees with you. If they get a lot of signatures against you, then you may have made the wrong choices.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/11/2017 1:36 PM

They are saying also that I'm "promoting and accelerating the approval of the rebuild of the trash stalls with new untested materials which are now faulty and require further maintenance and investment." For this, the Board had actually voted against me for cedar and I had voted for composite. The guy we ok'd to do it said he could get the composite (after a previous contractor fell through from not being able to get composite) so I, "M" and another Board member said it was ok to get the composite - 3 votes. This guy that was supposed to do the job was brought on by my guy neighbor that is in cahoots with the guy that was knocked off the board. He ended up doing the job incorrectly and used nails instead of screws. How is that my fault? If the guy didn't feel comfortable using the composite then don't accept the job. Only me and "M" are being blamed and not the third board member who also voted.

If the nails need to be screws, have them changed. Have the work redone. Your end result should be whatever the beginning expectations should be. It sounds like the “bad guy” knows the contractor does sub-par work, and if I read this correctly, he does. But not being there I’m sure I’m missing important pieces of this puzzle.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/11/2017 1:36 PM

Then they have me as "approving payment of additional invoices from this company that were unsubstantiated and not part of the original bid." This is the company that the guy on the Board that was knocked off had gotten into a fight with and the police almost had to be called. This is also the company that me and "M" tried to get back to do work.

He/they should be able to prove this, or you should be able to disprove it. Don’t worry about the police being called or not. The police get called many times when they shouldn’t, and don’t get called many times when they should. Not an HOA issue.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/11/2017 1:36 PM

They are talking about my personal conduct saying that I'm bullying people and harassing people, but they have too and I have the emails.

Two wrongs do not a right make! You should be meeting with the membership for big decisions.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/11/2017 1:36 PM

They don't want me on the board because I want an assessment to do the decks that are falling apart. A lot of the people we have here are starting to not be able to afford it here. We just raised the dues and got a lot of flack back. We have no money. The current board keeps thinking that they can just do about 3 decks a year when we have over 80 decks and they are already over 35 years old. Some are unstable.

I would vote against any board member who “wants” an assessment. LOL. You should present the membership with the decision for an assessment.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/11/2017 1:36 PM

Before I got on the board, again, they past board had taken the buildings off of a painting schedule and planned to paint them on a needed basis. I got back on and changed that back to a schedule. The decks are going to be the problem, but these people do not want to hear "assessment" and I also said that we could always close the pool for a summer and save ourselves $7000, but no, that will never be an option. So these people that have it in for me and "M" are getting signatures by lying and saying that if I am still on the board they may get an assessment and that I also want to do away completely with the pool. I didn't even say that - I said close for a summer! These people signed this petition without even hearing our side of the story! The whole thing just makes me sick. Some of those people we know. They never had a problem always going to "M" with their complaints and using "M's" husband for all of their dirty work. It is all personal.

Assessments….ouch. Assessment for this, assessment for that.. Do the as needed approach and set up reserves.
You cannot “close” a pool for the summer and expect to save any money. There are codes and as long as the water is in the pool, it will have to be maintained. Your savings would be minimal and I’m sure the membership know this AND why would they want their pool closed during the summer? That’s when they use it.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/11/2017 1:36 PM

I'm not even going to defend myself because I've already been convicted with these people signing these petitions. I am just going to tell them that I don't want to represent people who are so quick to condemn someone without even hearing the other side of the story. No one has every been kicked off the board. I still can't believe this is happening. And to call "M" a "stalker"? Really? I just want away from all these idiots, but I live with them and they control the money to the HOA.

Where there’s smoke….

But you should go to the meeting. Even if you’re silent. You get to vote.
You sound really concerned about “M”. No doubt a friend. I would concentrate on “U” for now.
Good luck.

AngelaW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 24

Posted:

"This is the problem with making decisions that deal with large amounts of money and/or big changes without the membership. Yes, three votes can legally do it, but a membership meeting and an affirmative vote from the membership would show that the majority agrees with you. If they get a lot of signatures against you, then you may have made the wrong choices."

The point is whether a decision was made incorrectly or not, these people are not going after the 3rd board member who was also in the decision. It is personal.

As for the assessment, anyone who votes against an assessment that is meant to improve the community and their own real estate should leave the community. The problem is we have decks that are a safety risk and it is only going to get worse. We do not have enough money to fix 80 decks. Fixing 3 a year like they plan to do will take 26+ years. I kept trying to point this out. These people keep choosing not to raise dues, never to have an assessment - what community has not had an assessment?! It is because they have no money. What is going to have to happen is the people with money will either have to do their own deck (which the association will have to ok) or they will have to move because the place is turning into a dump. They are upset because I said that I would sue the board if my deck was not kept up to code. Whether I am on or off the board, I will do that. I have even sent the board members articles of other boards that were sued because the common areas were not kept up. The reason I am pushing for an assessment now is because it will take time to gather the money for these decks even with an assessment (at least 2-3 years). There was a guy at the meeting who has been on boards in other places and is now getting his deck replaced because it was totally unstable. He is getting it fixed and is selling his condo. What really upsets me is he signed the petition to remove me even after he heard what I had to say and actually said that he thinks that I really am on the board to do the right things. Wth! This is what I'm talking about - these people are going after me because it is personal and no other reason. I wish I could just get out of here.

JohnB83 (South Carolina)
Posts: 124

Posted:

simple

sell and move

?are your objections recorded in the minutes?

or

petition for a court order forcing compliance

or

petition the court to appoint a receiver due to nonfeasance of the BOD

or

sell and move

OR

sit tight, quiet down, and be happy

or

continue to whine on the internet

(at this point the meter is beginning to rise)

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/12/2017 11:46 AM

The point is whether a decision was made incorrectly or not, these people are not going after the 3rd board member who was also in the decision. It is personal.

Would it matter if they included the third person? Who’s to say they won’t at some point in the future. You probably took point on the issues so you will absorb the most attention. You set yourself up as a target. Just because something is done the “correct” way doesn’t mean it should’ve been done in the first place.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/12/2017 11:46 AM
As for the assessment, anyone who votes against an assessment that is meant to improve the community and their own real estate should leave the community.

Thank you for this! Gives me a clearer vision of the type of person you are. ‘either live as I tell you or get out’ type. An assessment of that size should go before the membership. There is usually a dollar amount that can be spent by the board without member approval. Have you looked at the documents completely?

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/12/2017 11:46 AM
The problem is we have decks that are a safety risk and it is only going to get worse. We do not have enough money to fix 80 decks. Fixing 3 a year like they plan to do will take 26+ years. I kept trying to point this out.

The problem is that are no reserves in place. That is a problem that was caused, possibly, by a BOD way before you. A simple solution for this would be to propose to repair the 3 per year, AND any others that become dire. The people that have the money to repair their own can do so, and pay a reduced yearly assessment/dues. Also, repairing and replacing are two different things.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/12/2017 11:46 AM
These people keep choosing not to raise dues, never to have an assessment - what community has not had an assessment?!

Mine has not. We came close once, but we make every effort to NOT have an assessment.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/12/2017 11:46 AM
It is because they have no money. What is going to have to happen is the people with money will either have to do their own deck (which the association will have to ok) or they will have to move because the place is turning into a dump. They are upset because I said that I would sue the board if my deck was not kept up to code.

Good luck suing. I don’t think you’ll do very well. The people with money can fix their decks, as I said earlier. I seriously doubt anyone is going to move because their neighbor’s deck is in need of repair. All the association has to show is that they are taking steps to make the repairs. Just because you disagree with the steps does not guarantee a victory in court.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/12/2017 11:46 AM
Whether I am on or off the board, I will do that. I have even sent the board members articles of other boards that were sued because the common areas were not kept up. The reason I am pushing for an assessment now is because it will take time to gather the money for these decks even with an assessment (at least 2-3 years). There was a guy at the meeting who has been on boards in other places and is now getting his deck replaced because it was totally unstable. He is getting it fixed and is selling his condo. What really upsets me is he signed the petition to remove me even after he heard what I had to say and actually said that he thinks that I really am on the board to do the right things. Wth! This is what I'm talking about - these people are going after me because it is personal and no other reason. I wish I could just get out of here.

You can, move!

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB83 on 10/12/2017 12:16 PM

(at this point the meter is beginning to rise)

Since I'm somewhat new here, can you explain the "meter" to me?

JohnB83 (South Carolina)
Posts: 124

Posted:

BSometer

Tauric Ka-Ka ometer

Bullcrapometer

my personal toy

AngelaW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 24

Posted:

You are exactly like the ones that I am having to deal with. Why should the ones with money do their own decks? I want to live with other people who can also afford to live in this community. It's not a handout. That is with any community - you can either afford it or you get out. There is nothing wrong with me wanting to keep up my place. So your answer is that I should have to leave since they are not keeping up the exterior and let the people who can't afford it stay and run it into a dump? Great plan.

You keep saying to go back to reserves. Don't you think we have already exhausted all efforts? The ones with money are leaving because they also say we should be raising the dues or having an assessment because there is no other way to keep this place up. And in our area, we are about the only ones who have not had an assessment. And I would rather have an assessment than keep raising dues. Assessments are one time for one project. When dues are raised they do not come back down. When I explained this the last time we raised dues, there were actually homeowners coming to the meeting and asking why we didn't do an assessment instead. That's the kind of doofuses that I'm working with.

AngelaW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 24

Posted:

In regards to the petitions, "M" talked to one of the ones who signed it and they said they didn't even read the petitions - all they had been told was to sign because me and "M" wanted an assessment and to get rid of the pool. Once she actually read the petitions, she retracted her signature and so did another person.

AngelaW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 24

Posted:

This is what is going to happen to our complex if they don't do something.

https://independentamericancommunities.com/2017/06/12/is-your-condo-balcony-safe/

A recent report from Dublin, Ohio, serves as a caution for homeowners and tenants alike. Two people were seriously injured a few days ago, when a second story balcony suddenly collapsed from beneath them.

According to a construction expert, Karin Cash, interviewed by ABC6 On Your Side, it appears that the wooden deck’s ledger board – the board that is meant to anchor the deck in place – separated from the townhouse when nail fasteners failed. Cash believes that copper used to treat the lumber may have caused corrosion of metal nails and bolts used to fasten the decks to each townhouse.

The balcony collapsed onto a vehicle parked below, breaking residents’ fall, but totaling the car, as can be seen from photos.

Condo balcony collapse prompts 150+ decks deemed ‘unsafe’

A condominium balcony broke free, fell and slammed into a car, injuring two people and it has prompted more than 150 other balconies to be considered unsafe.

Some condominium owners at the Falls at Hayden Run, a Lifestyle Community near Dublin, received a notice from the City of Columbus that explained it was unsafe to use the deck pending a structural evaluation.

Last week, the Columbus Division of Fire received an emergency call after a deck collapsed on a car along Mesa Falls Street. Neighbors said a man was visiting his daughter and they were on the deck when it failed. They were both rushed to the hospital with injuries.

The condominium community of Falls at Hayden Run, managed by Lifestyle Communities of Columbus, was constructed in 2005-2006. Most of the relatively new townhouse dwellings are leased to tenants.

City of Columbus officials have deemed balconies at 150 homes in the community to be unsafe. The condo association is now responsible for correcting this safety hazard.

In the meantime, ABC6 reports that many other communities in the area contain similar balconies, and were constructed by the same builder.

The report serves as a public service warning to owners and residents in the Columbus area and beyond, to regularly inspect decks and balconies for signs of instability. For the safey of residents, it is critical to repair any defects promptly.

Liability for condo association

Condo owners and buyers take note that unfortunate accidents such at the balcony collapse at the Falls at Hayden Run create substantial financial liabilities for the association. Therefore, it is critical that the condo association maintains appropriate insurance coverage for damages and legal defense in the case of claims for personal injury or fatality. Consult a qualified insurance professional to obtain appropriate insurance.

However, be aware that if a condo or homeowners association negligently defers maintenance, or fails to conduct regular safety inspections, an insurance provider may ultimately deny paying a claim.

Prevention is always more prudent and far less expensive than deferring action and reacting to the inevitable disaster.

To monitor proper management and maintenance of an association-governed community, owners must take a proactive stance. Here are a few suggestions.

Condo owners who do not reside in their units, and rely upon a manager to lease them, would be wise to periodically tour and carefully examine the community, as well as individual units, to ensure that tenants, the unit manager, and the association manager are taking care of the property.
If possible, all owners, including absentee landlord owners, should plan to attend the annual meeting. If attendance is not possible, at least review the agenda, the qualifications of any candidates for the board of directors, and any pending votes on the budget or amendments of governing documents.
All condo owners, whether owner occupants or investors, should, at a minimum, read and understand governing documents of the association, follow condo board meetings by reading the minutes, review annual financial reports and audits, and cast their direct votes (in person or by proxy) to elect condo directors or on other important business matters for the association.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Yes, JohnB83 (the poster formerly known as PITA) does has a blunt way of putting things (as do I on occasion), but he’s right – you either stand up and defend yourself, resign without saying anything (which may prompt some people to think the other guy was right about you), or do nothing and deal with whatever happens next.

No one said board membership was easy – you will get people who will oppose you, no matter what you say or do for a number of reasons. Some folks won't listen to anything you or anyone else says because they really don't care, others go along with whoever screams the loudest (they sound passionate, therefore it must be true). You can’t always control that – all you can control is what YOU think, say and do. The people between the extremes are the ones you need to reach - make your case and it might work.

It’s time for you to make up your mind on what you're going to do and why - if you want to defend yourself, you might want to bring along that article to drive home your point – in fact, make copies so people can read it for themselves and then decide. If you're still running scared about whoever's trying to get rid of you and are too intimidated, you may as well resign now instead of continuing to wring your hands and raise your blood pressure. Being recalled isn't pleasant, especially when you really haven't done anything wrong, but if you're right about everything you’ve said, that WILL come to light eventually. You may get an apology after that, but if you don’t, so what? You did your part.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

JohnB83 (South Carolina)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/12/2017 6:18 PM
You are exactly like the ones that I am having to deal with. Why should the ones with money do their own decks? I want to live with other people who can also afford to live in this community. It's not a handout. That is with any community - you can either afford it or you get out. There is nothing wrong with me wanting to keep up my place. So your answer is that I should have to leave since they are not keeping up the exterior and let the people who can't afford it stay and run it into a dump? Great plan.

You keep saying to go back to reserves. Don't you think we have already exhausted all efforts? The ones with money are leaving because they also say we should be raising the dues or having an assessment because there is no other way to keep this place up. And in our area, we are about the only ones who have not had an assessment. And I would rather have an assessment than keep raising dues. Assessments are one time for one project. When dues are raised they do not come back down. When I explained this the last time we raised dues, there were actually homeowners coming to the meeting and asking why we didn't do an assessment instead. That's the kind of doofuses that I'm working with.

NO ~ MY ANSWER WAS:

simple

sell and move

?are your objections recorded in the minutes?

or

petition for a court order forcing compliance

or

petition the court to appoint a receiver due to nonfeasance of the BOD

or

sell and move

OR

sit tight, quiet down, and be happy

or

continue to whine on the internet

(at this point the meter is beginning to rise)

JohnB83 (South Carolina)
Posts: 124

Posted:

Posted By SheliaH on 10/13/2017 7:51 AM
Yes, JohnB83 (the poster formerly known as PITA) does has a blunt way of putting things .....

OPINION (directed at everyone):

If the attorneys were equally blunt and to the point we would have much more money and they much less.

The point is to COMMUNICATE FACTS (albeit sometimes even I am occasionally wrong) not blah blah blah to no avail.

AngelaW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 24

Posted:

"M" got scared and resigned today. The owner of the management company even had a radiation letter all made up for her - A-hole. He sent me some emails that were meant to scare me too and said I should just resign so that "the healing can begin for the community". What a bunch of BS! Almost they are doing it bullying us. One of the other Board members said in an email that "we got one resignation, maybe we don't have to go through the Special Meeting of we get the other resignation?"

I told the manager that I won't be resigning and that I am looking into an attorney who specializes in HOA Law.

The email I got today from the management guy was another lie again that goes against something he said in a previous email. The truth is going to come out. I just feel so alone and scared but 9 can't let them get away with this.

AngelaW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 24

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/18/2017 6:09 PM
"M" got scared and resigned today. The owner of the management company even had a radiation letter all made up for her - A-hole. He sent me some emails that were meant to scare me too and said I should just resign so that "the healing can begin for the community". What a bunch of BS! Almost they are doing it bullying us. One of the other Board members said in an email that "we got one resignation, maybe we don't have to go through the Special Meeting of we get the other resignation?"

I told the manager that I won't be resigning and that I am looking into an attorney who specializes in HOA Law.

The email I got today from the management guy was another lie again that goes against something he said in a previous email. The truth is going to come out. I just feel so alone and scared but 9 can't let them get away with this.

Resignation letter - not radiation, duh.

PaininyourA
Posts: 215

Posted:

either type is toxic

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/18/2017 6:11 PM

Resignation letter - not radiation, duh.

You need to show up to the meeting and defend yourself with head held high. To not show will appear as if the stories are true. If you do not want to go alone ... have your attorney attend with you.

AngelaW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 24

Posted:

OUR LAWYER GOT THE MEETING CANCELED!

Me and M told the secretary that we will be making another appointment to push this as far as we can! I'm not letting them get away with this.

THANK YOU JESUS!

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Congratulations. Of course, you know this isn't still quite over - now you need to start reviewing these accusations against you and address all of them if you're requesting a special meeting or executive session to address this once and for all. Good luck to you both.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

MichelleK5 (New York)
Posts: 161

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/12/2017 11:46 AM
"This is the problem with making decisions that deal with large amounts of money and/or big changes without the membership. Yes, three votes can legally do it, but a membership meeting and an affirmative vote from the membership would show that the majority agrees with you. If they get a lot of signatures against you, then you may have made the wrong choices."

The point is whether a decision was made incorrectly or not, these people are not going after the 3rd board member who was also in the decision. It is personal.

As for the assessment, anyone who votes against an assessment that is meant to improve the community and their own real estate should leave the community. The problem is we have decks that are a safety risk and it is only going to get worse. We do not have enough money to fix 80 decks. Fixing 3 a year like they plan to do will take 26+ years. I kept trying to point this out. These people keep choosing not to raise dues, never to have an assessment - what community has not had an assessment?! It is because they have no money. What is going to have to happen is the people with money will either have to do their own deck (which the association will have to ok) or they will have to move because the place is turning into a dump. They are upset because I said that I would sue the board if my deck was not kept up to code. Whether I am on or off the board, I will do that. I have even sent the board members articles of other boards that were sued because the common areas were not kept up. The reason I am pushing for an assessment now is because it will take time to gather the money for these decks even with an assessment (at least 2-3 years). There was a guy at the meeting who has been on boards in other places and is now getting his deck replaced because it was totally unstable. He is getting it fixed and is selling his condo. What really upsets me is he signed the petition to remove me even after he heard what I had to say and actually said that he thinks that I really am on the board to do the right things. Wth! This is what I'm talking about - these people are going after me because it is personal and no other reason. I wish I could just get out of here.

First, your issue is harassment. Get a police report every time he threatens you. That's where you should be starting.

Second, You're also way too emotional to be on any board. Your're taking all this way too personally and showing it. Not a good trait in a a board member.

And lastly, if I were a a member of your HOA, and had no opinion on you either way, your comment; "As for the assessment, anyone who votes against an assessment that is meant to improve the community and their own real estate should leave the community", would seal the deal for me and vote you off.

I wouldn't listen to anything you have to say after that since that statement alone shows me you're not open to listening to any other options.

Now, I could be completely wrong about you. You may not be too emotional, you may be 100% correct about needing the assessment, but your attitude and emotional response would completely
turn me off even if you're right.

Just being honest with you about how the vast majority of HOA members see things -right or wrong doesn't always make a difference.

AllumW (Florida)
Posts: 68

Posted:

Why is it so important to fight to stay on the board when it's obvious members of the HOA and the other board directors don't want you on it?

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AllumW on 10/25/2017 11:15 AM
Why is it so important to fight to stay on the board when it's obvious members of the HOA and the other board directors don't want you on it?

Depends on what is going on in the association. Many will fight to stay on because others are not properly running the association and improperly managing the funds for the association. If I was being forced to pay high assessments or needing to pay special assessments, due to the HOA in the past has not been properly managed and has not properly maintained the common areas ... I would myself definately fight to stay on a BOD to fix the issues.

For example a friend was in a condo where majority of the BOD was owners who rented their units. Those owners DID NOT want to raise assessments for many projects that needed to be completed because it would affect their rental profit. They also tended to only want work of "cosmetic" nature done vs needed work which could not be necessarily seen. My friend worked really hard to insure the BOD in the future was primarily owners who lived in the condos, so items which were not cosmetic but required would get approved.

AllumW (Florida)
Posts: 68

Posted:

Thanks Janet! Our HOA is still developer run so I'm trying to comprehend all these ins and outs.

AngelaW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 24

Posted:

I wish I was working with you. This is why I am fighting this. From my point of view now, I am staying on the Board because it is very personal. No, I am not emotional, but I get pissed off when people think they don't have to follow the rules - which is what is happening now. I am not being removed from the Board in a legal manner. The meeting was cancelled because the management company wasn't following the rules. The management company is siding with the petitioners and not with the Board members leaving us to get our own attorney when we really should be having access to the managment's attorney. The management company should be staying neutral.The members on the Board want me and M off because we expect the homeowners to follow the rules. I am not one for showing favoritism to people I like or my neighbors as is the practice of the current Board members. The Special Meeting was set up to where I was not going to be allowed a rebuttal - which is also illegal. They don't want the truth to come out. The only way this will be corrected is if me and M sue the petitioners and the management company. I want the petitions reversed and I want M back on the Board as President because she was forced to resign under duress from the management company. The management company is now even going to pay for the proxies to be sent back out. Who wouldn't be emotional?! We aren't able to defend ourselves and we are just supposed to accept these petitions that are flying around out there with absolute lies about us without doing anything? Screw that! Our lawyer said we did nothing wrong. M is being labeled a "stalker". Anyone who wouldn't fight this, I wouldn't want on the Board.

We have a meeting with the attorney again in a week to see if we can take them to court. I am done with playing around with these people. I also just got an email today from the other woman who was threatened by the petitioner saying that she is glad that I sought legal council. I am hoping we can get a case going on him and have this woman testify. Someone has to put an end to this nonsense.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 12:41 PM

The management company is siding with the petitioners and not with the Board members leaving us to get our own attorney when we really should be having access to the managment's attorney.

With all due respect, why would anyone use the MC attorney.
That attorney works for the MC.

The Association should have it's own attorney, separate from the MC (someone they picked).
This way, that attorney works for the Board.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 12:41 PM

The management company should be staying neutral.

Agree.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 12:41 PM

The members on the Board want me and M off because we expect the homeowners to follow the rules.

Well, that explains the MC actions. They work for the Board and board decisions are made by majority vote.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 12:41 PM

I want the petitions reversed

Likely not happening.

Either the petitions are valid or invalid.
For a petition to be invalid, the signatures would have to be from non-members or forged, resulting in not having the required number of signatures.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 12:41 PM

I want M back on the Board as President because she was forced to resign under duress from the management company.

Again, likely not happening.

Resignation was a choice.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 12:41 PM

Someone has to put an end to this nonsense.

Hopefully it will be you.

However, to be realistic, this may end up being a situation of winning the battle but losing the war. This situation will divide the community and you need support to gain majority control of the Board, so the changes you desire can occur.

AngelaW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 24

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 10/26/2017 1:16 PM

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 12:41 PM

The management company should be staying neutral.

Agree.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 12:41 PM

The members on the Board want me and M off because we expect the homeowners to follow the rules.

Well, that explains the MC actions. They work for the Board and board decisions are made by majority vote.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 12:41 PM

I want the petitions reversed

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 12:41 PM

I want M back on the Board as President because she was forced to resign under duress from the management company.

Again, likely not happening.

Resignation was a choice.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 12:41 PM

Someone has to put an end to this nonsense.

M has lived here since the condos were built. She said this has happened before. A Board member was actually embezzling money and by information being posted about what was happening, the Board member resigned on his own and the management company left. I have actually pressured 3 off of the Board before by putting information at the mailboxes telling the community what was going on and the Board members resigned on their own. One of them being one of the current petitioners.

This situation is totally out of hand. No one has ever tried to force a person off of the Board by proxy. There are illegal things happening such as threats from one of the petitioners and the other has lied to get the signatures. We have not been able to defend ourselves. M's resignation was not by choice - it was from the management company threatening that if she didn't resign then there could be litigation. The management guy is a lawyer and would know just what to say to pressure someone to resign. I was scared - he was trying to get me to resign saying that M had already resigned and that if I didn't then I needed to find legal representation. Hearing that did scare the crap out of me, but I knew they had nothing on me. Then he tried to make us feel guilty by telling us that we just need to get off the Board so the healing of the community could begin. What an ass! My healing will begin if I find out that we can sue him and the petitioners as well. This will let others know that you just can't lie and get anyone kicked off the Board because you don't like them or their opinions. One person cannot push something through - it takes 3 votes. Now, even though I am still a Board member since the meeting was cancelled, they are cutting me out of votes and correspondence. Totally illegal. The whole thing stinks to high heaven. There are decent people out there, they are just too scared to get involved.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 1:53 PM

I have actually pressured 3 off of the Board before by putting information at the mailboxes telling the community what was going on and the Board members resigned on their own. One of them being one of the current petitioners.

Well, that may explain why this is happening to you.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 1:53 PM

No one has ever tried to force a person off of the Board by proxy. There are illegal things happening such as threats from one of the petitioners and the other has lied to get the signatures. We have not been able to defend ourselves. M's resignation was not by choice - it was from the management company threatening that if she didn't resign then there could be litigation. The management guy is a lawyer and would know just what to say to pressure someone to resign. I was scared - he was trying to get me to resign saying that M had already resigned and that if I didn't then I needed to find legal representation. Hearing that did scare the crap out of me, but I knew they had nothing on me. Then he tried to make us feel guilty by telling us that we just need to get off the Board so the healing of the community could begin. What an ass! My healing will begin if I find out that we can sue him and the petitioners as well. This will let others know that you just can't lie and get anyone kicked off the Board because you don't like them or their opinions. One person cannot push something through - it takes 3 votes. Now, even though I am still a Board member since the meeting was cancelled, they are cutting me out of votes and correspondence. Totally illegal. The whole thing stinks to high heaven. There are decent people out there, they are just too scared to get involved.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 1:53 PM

No one has ever tried to force a person off of the Board by proxy.

You mean by following the options of recall?

That is the proper way to force a person off the board.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 1:53 PM

There are illegal things happening such as threats from one of the petitioners

Call the police and file a complaint

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 1:53 PM

There are illegal things happening . . . the other has lied to get the signatures.

Lying is not illegal unless it's under oath or to the police.
If it were, politics would be very different.

Don't let your emotions get into this issue. Simply stick to the facts.

Say what you were told wasn't true and here is the proof.
Don't say lying is illegal.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 1:53 PM

M's resignation was not by choice - it was from the management company threatening that if she didn't resign then there could be litigation.

Threats of litigation, bluffing, is a methodology (especially one attorneys use).
To resign or not was still a choice.

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 1:53 PM

I was scared - he was trying to get me to resign saying that M had already resigned and that if I didn't then I needed to find legal representation. Hearing that did scare the crap out of me, but I knew they had nothing on me.

And you called the bluff.

AllumW (Florida)
Posts: 68

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AngelaW8 on 10/26/2017 12:41 PM
M has lived here since the condos were built. She said this has happened before. A Board member was actually embezzling money and by information being posted about what was happening, the Board member resigned on his own and the management company left. I have actually pressured 3 off of the Board before by putting information at the mailboxes telling the community what was going on and the Board members resigned on their own. One of them being one of the current petitioners.

This situation is totally out of hand. No one has ever tried to force a person off of the Board by proxy.

So...what I'm reading is that this board has seemed to rely on seemingly forced attrition instead of what the HOA documents state is the proper way to replace/remove a board member. This board dynamic is unhealthy for the community.

AngelaW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 24

Posted:

UPDATE:

The remaining 3 members on the Board and the management company have really shunned me as I am not receiving any emails now. This is because something interesting happened. The Board had a company go around and look at all of the decks and place them in order according to which ones need to be replaced right away. It just so turns out that my deck and "M"'s deck are THE WORST AND NEED TO BE TORN DOWN AND REPLACED IMMEDIATELY! The guy said that they can't be fixed. I'm wondering if they are even stable to be on.

Anyway, at the last meeting that I chose not to attend, I heard when they were told it was my and M's decks that needed to be replaced, they were enraged! AND, my deck is going to cost extra because it wraps around. So now, I will get a new deck without having to fight for an assessment anymore!

One other thing, I went down to City Hall and found out our management company did not get a permit for the last two decks that were just built. When I asked the management company about this, I received no answer. I said that there better be a permit when our decks are built. I said I would also be informing the City about the last two decks and we will probably be fined which I believe the management company should pay. I have not received any emails from anyone since, which my lawyer said is illegal for them to shut me out since I am still on the Board.

Also, they were trying to get someone else to run for the Board with the remaining 3 and they have not been able to get anyone so if they are unable to get a quorum vote, I would still be a Board member. They are pissed about that (understatement).

Then, one of the ones that made the petition email blasted out some crap about me again and I answered the email by telling everyone the truth about what was really going on and the truth about the remaining Board members (in a tasteful way) and that really got them mad - especially since I sent it out a few hours before the monthly Board meeting and then didn't attend the meeting. One even said "She said all of that stuff and she isn't even here to defend herself!" Defend myself? They haven't defended any of the defamatory statements they put out about me - absolutely no proof on anything they said!

So, that's the update. I don't know where to go from here because I am not getting anyone to answer me. If anyone has any ideas, please let me know. The deck thing scares me.

PaininyourA
Posts: 215

Posted:

The mgmt. co. does NOT need a permit.

The actual owner of the property in question needs the permit.

Declarant ? HOA ?

Who is the legal owner RECORDED with your county's 'register of deeds' ?

PaininyourA
Posts: 215

Posted:

Be very very careful - the 'county' or other AHJ may inspect and find the property 'unfit for human occupation'.

Then y'all will be FORCED to move while repairs are made (potentially by court appointed receiver) and paid for IMMEDIATELY via special assessment.

The BOD members in power at that time WILL absorb significant 'flack'.

(you being one of them)

PaininyourA
Posts: 215

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By n/a on 10/12/2017 12:16 PM
simple

sell and move

?are your objections recorded in the minutes?

or

petition for a court order forcing compliance

or

petition the court to appoint a receiver due to nonfeasance of the BOD

or

sell and move

OR

sit tight, quiet down, and be happy

or

continue to whine on the internet

(at this point the meter is beginning to rise)

Appears to have been excellent advice

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

If the decks are new construction they MAY require a permit, I'm not sure. If they are being repaired to their original condition they probably do not require a permit.

AngelaW8 (Kansas)
Posts: 24

Posted:

The management company is expected to get the permit since they are the ones making sure the job is done correctly. The City said it is commercial property and the condo HOA would be the one to pay the fine.

As for treading lightly, I'm going to make sure the job is done according to code. I'm 3 flights up. If the whole place needs to be condemned, then so be it. I can move up the street. I'm tired of them cutting corners because they can't afford an assessment. Now I won't have to worry about it anymore.

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