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GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Our covenants have this statement.

TERM. These covenants are to run with the land and shall be binding on all parties and all persons claiming under them for a period of twenty-five (25)
years from the date these covenants are recorded,
after which time said covenants shall be automatically extended for successive periods of ten (10) years
unless an instrument signed by a majority of the then owners of the lots has been recorded, agreeing to change said covenants in whole or in part.


The covenants were originally filed on May 10th, 1985, and no changes have been made since then..

Since no instrument agreeing to change was recorded prior to May 10th, 2010, I believe that these covenants were automatically extended until May 10th, 2020.
If the association agrees to change the covenants, the changes must be approved, and recorded prior to May 10th, 2020, and become effective on May 10th, 2020.

Does anyone have a different interpretation? If there is a different interpretation, then why wasn't it written differently.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Amendments may be approved and recorded at any time.

That passage is simply saying that unless the document is amended, the original document will continue to renew every 10 years.

However, if (at any time) the document is amended, then the amended document will continue to renew every 10 years.
JohnB83 (South Carolina)
Posts: 124
Posted:
'spot on'
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
My former HOA had similar wording that was questioned. The answer was as TimB4 wrote.
GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 10/03/2017 6:57 PM
Amendments may be approved and recorded at any time.

That passage is simply saying that unless the document is amended, the original document will continue to renew every 10 years.

However, if (at any time) the document is amended, then the amended document will continue to renew every 10 years.


Tim, thanks for your response.

We are in the process of amending the covenants and we want to be as simple as possible, but no simpler.

Is your interpretation any different than not having any article concerning the duration of the covenants, and not stating when they can be changed? That is, what is the default in the absence of any such article?

Is there any value in the statement "the amended document will continue to renew every 10 years"? Why not "the amended document will last indefinitely"? Why not say nothing? If there in nothing to say the amendments will expire, then they will last indefinitely.

At some time, someone thought that the wording in the original post had some value. I wonder what they were thinking. Perhaps that wording was picked from some previous covenant and applied to our covenant without any thought.

One further concern: Your interpretation means that the covenants can be changed as often as we wish.

Thanks,
Gary
GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 10/04/2017 6:46 AM
My former HOA had similar wording that was questioned. The answer was as TimB4 wrote.

Augustin,

Who provided that answer?

Gary
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Gary

I hope you are getting legal advice on Covenant changes. If not, you are headed down a slippery slope.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GaryM15 on 10/04/2017 8:25 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 10/04/2017 6:46 AM
My former HOA had similar wording that was questioned. The answer was as TimB4 wrote.

Augustin,
Who provided that answer?
Gary

The HOA attorney (possibly two different HOA attorneys, as the HOA was in a state of flux).
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
The attached file is a 1998 Michigan appeals court opinion. I think it explains much on this issue. With thanks to those who posted this file to thread http://www.hoatalk.com/Search/ForumSearch/tabid/87/view/topic/postid/55661/Default.aspx
📎 Attachments (1):

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📄1104353464971.pdf(16 KB)
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GaryM15 on 10/03/2017 6:55 PM
Our covenants have this statement.

TERM. These covenants are to run with the land and shall be binding on all parties and all persons claiming under them for a period of twenty-five (25)
years from the date these covenants are recorded,
after which time said covenants shall be automatically extended for successive periods of ten (10) years
unless an instrument signed by a majority of the then owners of the lots has been recorded, agreeing to change said covenants in whole or in part.


The covenants were originally filed on May 10th, 1985, and no changes have been made since then..

Since no instrument agreeing to change was recorded prior to May 10th, 2010, I believe that these covenants were automatically extended until May 10th, 2020. CORRECT ... Most CCR's will have this statement where they renew every X number of years based on the CCR's and/or State Laws.
If the association agrees to change the covenants, the changes must be approved, and recorded prior to May 10th, 2020, and become effective on May 10th, 2020. INCORRECT ... due to your above section which I have noted in bold. If you have a "majority" of owners agree to any amendment and which is properly filed with your local County Records following your State Law ... it becomes affective immediately.

Does anyone have a different interpretation? If there is a different interpretation, then why wasn't it written differently.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 10/04/2017 11:35 AM
The attached file is a 1998 Michigan appeals court opinion. I think it explains much on this issue. With thanks to those who posted this file to thread http://www.hoatalk.com/Search/ForumSearch/tabid/87/view/topic/postid/55661/Default.aspx

Thanks for posting that. That has to be one of the more nutty court decisions I've read.

To think that the deed restrictions were put in place to prevent changes for a quarter of a century, no matter how minor and no matter the preferences of what could be a unanimous membership base, is absurd.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DaveD3 on 10/06/2017 3:57 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 10/04/2017 11:35 AM
The attached file is a 1998 Michigan appeals court opinion. I think it explains much on this issue. With thanks to those who posted this file to thread http://www.hoatalk.com/Search/ForumSearch/tabid/87/view/topic/postid/55661/Default.aspx


Thanks for posting that. That has to be one of the more nutty court decisions I've read.

To think that the deed restrictions were put in place to prevent changes for a quarter of a century, no matter how minor and no matter the preferences of what could be a unanimous membership base, is absurd.

I think it is possible that the covenants referenced in this 1998 Michigan decision have an amendment section that allows changes within the 25-year period. Also, from my layperson's reading, a lot of the case law is about how the courts expect buyers, sellers and owners to rely on the covenants as a contractual agreement that is unlikely to be broken in any major way. The contractual nature of covenants is why they are "publicly noticed" to the entire world via filing with county clerks. In many states, the covenants have to be provided to potential buyers to give them further notice. The multi-decade life of the original covenants makes sense to me.
JohnB83 (South Carolina)
Posts: 124
Posted:
ditto

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