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HOA revival

Started by TrinaL • 25 replies • 1324 views

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TrinaL (Maryland)
Posts: 7
Posted:
I'm in MD. Been in home for over 6 years with no knowledge of any type of HOA restrictions or encumbrances. The HOA doesn't show on my deed, I knew nothing about this and initially thought there was some type of error with the management company. Fast forward, Caruso Homes is trying to sell new homes and has "revived" the HOA and sent us all bills. I've filed a complaint with the MD Attorney General's office but I'm still worried. We liked this house BECAUSE there was no HOA, it's downright sad.

My attorney couldn't help, he's not a real estate lawyer so I'm looking for advice until I can find a good lawyer. Any suggestions?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
HOAs are created by deed restrictions.

You should have been told that there were or were not restrictions attached to your deed.
A copy of those restrictions may or may not have been given to you at closing.

I suggest reviewing your closing paperwork to see what it says.

That will tell you if you have been informed or not.

I then suggest going to the local County records office and obtain a copy of your deed and copies of all items attached to your deed.

This will tell you if your property is or isn't within an HOA (i.e. what do the restrictions say).

Once you know this info you can move forward.

If you were not told, contact your title insurance.
If you were told but not given a copy - well, unfortunately, that happens all the time.
Review the applicable disclosure laws to see if there is or isn't any relief there.

As for attorneys, I'd suggest someone versed in contract and property law.
TrinaL (Maryland)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thanks. I've gone back & forth with the title company and they emailed me the pdf that was filed in the court. I'm basically at the end of the road with the title company. My husband was the real estate agent so we already had our info & paperwork on hand. Even the MRIS listing said no HOA. We weren't notified at all but one of the neighbors stated that they voted to dissolve the HOA some time ago so the previous owner probably didn't feel the need to disclose it.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
As you know, the MRIS listing is only as accurate as the info the seller provides or the Realtor enters.

Voting to dissolve and doing all the steps properly are two different things.
dissolving the association requires amending the CC&Rs (as a minimum) along with additional paperwork.
It's possible that the previous board didn't follow through or, it's possible that the vote didn't reach the threshold required but those serving chose to simply go dormant.

So, are there covenants attached to your deed?
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/27/2017 6:01 PM

I then suggest going to the local County records office and obtain a copy of your deed and copies of all items attached to your deed.

This will tell you if your property is or isn't within an HOA (i.e. what do the restrictions say).

In my county, and probably many others, this info is available on-line for free from the county comptroller's web site.
Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TrinaL on 09/27/2017 5:54 PM
I'm in MD. Been in home for over 6 years with no knowledge of any type of HOA restrictions or encumbrances. The HOA doesn't show on my deed, I knew nothing about this and initially thought there was some type of error with the management company. Fast forward, Caruso Homes is trying to sell new homes and has "revived" the HOA and sent us all bills. I've filed a complaint with the MD Attorney General's office but I'm still worried. We liked this house BECAUSE there was no HOA, it's downright sad.

My attorney couldn't help, he's not a real estate lawyer so I'm looking for advice until I can find a good lawyer. Any suggestions?


When you purchased was TITLE INSURANCE included? If so, look at your Title Insurance documents and see if any HOA is listed as being attached to your Property Title. If not, call your Title Insurance as that is why you pay for this insurance ... to protect the title to your property from any "encumbrances" not listed and already disclosed in your insurance documents.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TrinaL on 09/27/2017 6:06 PM
Thanks. I've gone back & forth with the title company and they emailed me the pdf that was filed in the court. I'm basically at the end of the road with the title company. My husband was the real estate agent so we already had our info & paperwork on hand. Even the MRIS listing said no HOA. We weren't notified at all but one of the neighbors stated that they voted to dissolve the HOA some time ago so the previous owner probably didn't feel the need to disclose it.


Title Insurance is different from the Title Company. You potentially were asking the wrong company.
TrinaL (Maryland)
Posts: 7
Posted:


Title Insurance is different from the Title Company. You potentially were asking the wrong company.

Ahhh, yes. I'll get the tittle insurance info and contact them. I appreciate the help!
TrinaL (Maryland)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/27/2017 7:23 PM
As you know, the MRIS listing is only as accurate as the info the seller provides or the Realtor enters.

Voting to dissolve and doing all the steps properly are two different things.
dissolving the association requires amending the CC&Rs (as a minimum) along with additional paperwork.
It's possible that the previous board didn't follow through or, it's possible that the vote didn't reach the threshold required but those serving chose to simply go dormant.

So, are there covenants attached to your deed?

There are no hoa covenants explicitly stated in the deed. There's an implicit statement that says all covenants from the previous owner are transferred.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The records most likely aren't with your deed. They are separate PUBLIC documents available at the County Courthouse or online with them. Surprised since husband is a Realtor they did not know this. The Articles of Incorporation are a State level documents and should be available on their site too.

Many states make it a requirement the seller give a buyer a copy at closing. However, that doesn't always happen for many reasons. The law looks at it as it's no one else's fault to be informed but the buyer. So going to Title company isn't going to do much.

Take a visit to your courthouse or ask a neighbor. If your in a HOA, then a neighbor should have them.
Former HOA President
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
Your "BILL" should have the name of the corporation on it. Check with the state corporation office and see if it's listed as current. Call them and ask for proof that you are a mandatory member of the association.

I'm willing to bet that the corporation was allowed to lapse at the state level, and they have revived it. That only takes paying up the previous year's fee (in Michigan) unless they formed an entirely new corporation.

I'm confused as to what they are billing you for. Are there common areas in the subdivision? Who has been taking care of these over time?

Your deed may list the name of your subdivision in its legal description, but not if it's an association.

TrinaL (Maryland)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SueW6 on 09/28/2017 5:10 AM
Your "BILL" should have the name of the corporation on it. Check with the state corporation office and see if it's listed as current. Call them and ask for proof that you are a mandatory member of the association.

I'm willing to bet that the corporation was allowed to lapse at the state level, and they have revived it. That only takes paying up the previous year's fee (in Michigan) unless they formed an entirely new corporation.

I'm confused as to what they are billing you for. Are there common areas in the subdivision? Who has been taking care of these over time?

Your deed may list the name of your subdivision in its legal description, but not if it's an association.


Yes, it was inactive for years but revived in august 2016 according to the MD SDAT.I have requested proof, they just say "it's a matter of public record" but haven't yet told me where the records are. Based on these answers on this form, I'm assuming it's the courthouse.
I don't know what services are being provided but it's only $120/year. My primary issue is I don't want caruso homes having a say-so in if we want to do anything to our house. The caruso homes rep is the president of the HOA even though he doesn't live here! And yes, the subdivision is listed but nothing mentioned about an hoa.
CjC
Posts: 210
Posted:
TrinaL- What county are you in? I am also in Maryland and have made several trips to the local court house to see the HOA docs. I go and can read and or photocopy them. Unfortunately, ours are so old that they are not available online.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Trina,

Please review the Posting Rules for this forum
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Trina, you need to contact the title company that handled your escrow. You need to go to the county recorders office and pull your plat and parcel, get all the docs that are attached to your parcel number. Typically houses are listed as being in a "named" subdivision and if in an HOA CC&R's need to be attached.

Your title company can also handle that, hopefully you paid title insurance. best regards.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 09/28/2017 1:54 PM
Trina, you need to contact the title company that handled your escrow. You need to go to the county recorders office and pull your plat and parcel, get all the docs that are attached to your parcel number. Typically houses are listed as being in a "named" subdivision and if in an HOA CC&R's need to be attached.

Your title company can also handle that, hopefully you paid title insurance. best regards.


The Title Company is NOT the entity to contact. All they did was provide the closing services to obtain proper signatures from all involved. It is the Title Insurance (which is a separate entity) is the entity who checked to determine what if anything encumbered the property including any HOA and will be listed in this document.

Yes you can also check with your Local County Records to see if there are documents attached to your property title as this is and avenue your Title Insurance would have used to pull their information.

If there is no HOA attached and if you have Title Insurance ... they are the entity who will provide legal representation and be liable for protecting your rights.
TrinaL (Maryland)
Posts: 7
Posted:
THANK YOU ALL for your input! This has been some great advice and I'm grateful to everyone that weighed in!
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
You should be able to access a state web site to see a list of all non-profit corporations in your state.

google: State of XXXX, Corporation Division

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Trina, have you or your husband personally gone to the register of deeds to review the deed for your property to verify that there is nothing on record with the county pertaining to the HOA?

Any COPIES of documents you possess are not official. Don't just think you have everything. Go check if you haven't.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TrinaL on 09/28/2017 5:33 AM
Posted By SueW6 on 09/28/2017 5:10 AM
Your "BILL" should have the name of the corporation on it. Check with the state corporation office and see if it's listed as current. Call them and ask for proof that you are a mandatory member of the association.

I'm willing to bet that the corporation was allowed to lapse at the state level, and they have revived it. That only takes paying up the previous year's fee (in Michigan) unless they formed an entirely new corporation.

I'm confused as to what they are billing you for. Are there common areas in the subdivision? Who has been taking care of these over time?

Your deed may list the name of your subdivision in its legal description, but not if it's an association.



Yes, it was inactive for years but revived in august 2016 according to the MD SDAT.I have requested proof, they just say "it's a matter of public record" but haven't yet told me where the records are. Based on these answers on this form, I'm assuming it's the courthouse.
I don't know what services are being provided but it's only $120/year. My primary issue is I don't want caruso homes having a say-so in if we want to do anything to our house. The caruso homes rep is the president of the HOA even though he doesn't live here! And yes, the subdivision is listed but nothing mentioned about an hoa.


Are you now stating that their is HOA documents attached to your property title??? There must be a chain of events attached to your property title ... either there was or was not an HOA established prior to your purchase.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Janet,
I get the impression that Trina has the documents she was given at closing, but hasn't sought out the official documents from the register of deeds.

It's entirely possible that someone decided to create an HOA where one should not rightfully exist. We see those threads with some regularity here where an HOA claims authority over property without legal standing through registered deed restrictions.
TrinaL (Maryland)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 10/05/2017 10:44 PM
Posted By TrinaL on 09/28/2017 5:33 AM
Posted By SueW6 on 09/28/2017 5:10 AM
Your "BILL" should have the name of the corporation on it. Check with the state corporation office and see if it's listed as current. Call them and ask for proof that you are a mandatory member of the association.

I'm willing to bet that the corporation was allowed to lapse at the state level, and they have revived it. That only takes paying up the previous year's fee (in Michigan) unless they formed an entirely new corporation.

I'm confused as to what they are billing you for. Are there common areas in the subdivision? Who has been taking care of these over time?

Your deed may list the name of your subdivision in its legal description, but not if it's an association.



Yes, it was inactive for years but revived in august 2016 according to the MD SDAT.I have requested proof, they just say "it's a matter of public record" but haven't yet told me where the records are. Based on these answers on this form, I'm assuming it's the courthouse.
I don't know what services are being provided but it's only $120/year. My primary issue is I don't want caruso homes having a say-so in if we want to do anything to our house. The caruso homes rep is the president of the HOA even though he doesn't live here! And yes, the subdivision is listed but nothing mentioned about an hoa.


Are you now stating that their is HOA documents attached to your property title??? There must be a chain of events attached to your property title ... either there was or was not an HOA established prior to your purchase.

I don't actually know. Based on what I've seen here & researched, I need to go to the courthouse before I get an official answer and even then, I need to know the legality of it because the information that was given to me has time limits on it. If there was a chain of events that happen, it happened prior to our purchase of the home.
CjC
Posts: 210
Posted:
Trina-

All deeds that are recorded are actually available online as well. mdlandrec.net create and account and you can see all public deeds etc. You can check if a attachment was on your deed as well as that of your neighbors etc.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TrinaL on 10/06/2017 5:13 AM
Posted By JanetB2 on 10/05/2017 10:44 PM
Posted By TrinaL on 09/28/2017 5:33 AM
Posted By SueW6 on 09/28/2017 5:10 AM
Your "BILL" should have the name of the corporation on it. Check with the state corporation office and see if it's listed as current. Call them and ask for proof that you are a mandatory member of the association.

I'm willing to bet that the corporation was allowed to lapse at the state level, and they have revived it. That only takes paying up the previous year's fee (in Michigan) unless they formed an entirely new corporation.

I'm confused as to what they are billing you for. Are there common areas in the subdivision? Who has been taking care of these over time?

Your deed may list the name of your subdivision in its legal description, but not if it's an association.



Yes, it was inactive for years but revived in august 2016 according to the MD SDAT.I have requested proof, they just say "it's a matter of public record" but haven't yet told me where the records are. Based on these answers on this form, I'm assuming it's the courthouse.
I don't know what services are being provided but it's only $120/year. My primary issue is I don't want caruso homes having a say-so in if we want to do anything to our house. The caruso homes rep is the president of the HOA even though he doesn't live here! And yes, the subdivision is listed but nothing mentioned about an hoa.


Are you now stating that their is HOA documents attached to your property title??? There must be a chain of events attached to your property title ... either there was or was not an HOA established prior to your purchase.


I don't actually know. Based on what I've seen here & researched, I need to go to the courthouse before I get an official answer and even then, I need to know the legality of it because the information that was given to me has time limits on it. If there was a chain of events that happen, it happened prior to our purchase of the home.


Trina ... AGAIN ... when you closed on your property did you have Title Insurance? Did you look at your Title Insurance documents? If you did then you would KNOW if their was an HOA attached to your property as it would be noted in this document. YES ... you can also check with your local County Records ... however, your Title Insurance would also have already checked with those county records and noted the information within any policy issued.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 10/18/2017 10:36 PM

YES ... you can also check with your local County Records ... however, your Title Insurance would also have already checked with those county records and noted the information within any policy issued.

However, mistakes do happen and sometimes the title searcher misses things. That is the reason you purchase title insurance.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 10/19/2017 2:24 AM
Posted By JanetB2 on 10/18/2017 10:36 PM

YES ... you can also check with your local County Records ... however, your Title Insurance would also have already checked with those county records and noted the information within any policy issued.


However, mistakes do happen and sometimes the title searcher misses things. That is the reason you purchase title insurance.


LOL ... YEP and why they would be on the hook to protect your rights.

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