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EliotD (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Hi,

A couple of weeks ago I created a website to share some information with the other residents of my condominium.

Let's pretend the name of my condo is: "King Doe Condominium" (it's not that but actually pretty close)

Let's say the website I created is under this domain name: "kingdoe.us"

Today I received a letter from my association's lawyer telling me I was not allowed to use this domain name.

I check on the trademark website (TESS), they don't have any trademark on the name "King Doe Condominium" or the name "King Doe".

By a matter of fact, "kingdoe.com" also exist and doesn't belong to the association...

So my question is simple, am I allowed or not to use this domain name?

Thanks for your help!

Eliot

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Your question is a legal one and one that needs to be asked of an attorney.

It's not unusual for an attorney to send those type of letters regardless if it's true or not.

My suggestion, add a disclaimer to the site that this is not the official website of the Association. Provide a link to the official site if one exists.

You can also offer to sell the domain name to the Association for, say $1,000 (if you want to poke that bear).
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Eliot

There have been lawsuits based on like/similar/misleading, etc. names and usually the copier/dissenter lost.

Have at it at your own risk.

GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
You could start by asking the attorney to show that the Association has a legitimate ownership of the name. If the association has no trademark, they have no claim. As long as your website has a clear disclaimer where it cannot be confused with the "Association", you are free to use the name.

This came up with the website I established for my community. The community was named after a lake that borders it. I used the lake name as part of my website name. Association has no claim on the name; as a lake, it is public and its name can be freely used and cannot be commandeered by an association. A letter from my attorney cleared all that up quickly. I clearly state on my Home Page that the website is not approved or reviewed by the association board despite that ALL business of the association is republished there and comments and opinions are posted. This has kept everything orderly and civil for many years.

A side issue is "do you really want to pick this contest"? If you are starting a website, energizing a potentially contentious issue such as this may only serve to draw unnecessary lines before you get out of the gate. You could take the high road and introduce your website name and say that even though the condo lawyer objected, they had no legal claim to the name but you graciously decided...blah blah...
EliotD (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you all for your answers.

The fact is, I already have a disclaimer, on every single page of the website, next to the logo, written in red: "Non-official website of the xxx xxxx Condo. This website is animated by the community, for the community".

So I thought that would be enough.

Regarding the DOMAIN NAME of the site, the thing is, our condo doesn't have the name of a nearby lake, it has a very specific name. But, I checked, they never trademarked it.
So since there is no trademark and since the domain I'm using doesn't say XXXXXXcondominium.xxx , but just XXXXXX.xxx, I'm really wondering if they have, or not, the legal right to ask me to stop using this DOMAIN NAME? That's my question :-)

Below I added the ===><=== to underline the fact they are claiming the intellectual property ... without a trademark. Can they do that?
______________________________________________________________________________________________

The undersigned Law Firm is counsel to the Association. On its behalf, I demand that
you immediately cease infringement upon our client’s intellectual property as well as its
goodwill.
As you know, the Association is the entity responsible for maintaining and operating the
XXX XXX Condominium located in Miami Beach, Florida. In connection with those operations
over the span of many years it has utilized certain marks with which it has become associated.
The Association is protected by Florida Statute § 495.151, as well as other applicable statutes
and decisions. See, Tortoise Island Homeowners Ass'n, Inc. v. Tortoise Island Realty, Inc., 790
So. 2d 525, 530 (Fla. 5th DCA 2001).
The Association has used a distinctive crown mark for
many years. (copy of the crown).

It has come to our client’s attention that you are using its ====>>>intellectual property<<<====, without
consent or authorization, to advertise and promote your website, including your registration of
domain name XXXXXX.us. Such misuse is likely to mislead the public into believing that your actions are approved,
sanctioned or affiliated with the Association, and is also likely to confuse and deceive the public
that you are affiliated with the XXX XXX Condominium Association, Inc. Your website
reproduces the text and distinctive crown mark the Association uses to identify itself.
We are, of course, concerned that your use of the XXX XXX Condominum name and
crown logo is likely to cause confusion in the marketplace and dilute the value and goodwill of
the XXX XXX name and accompanying logo. Our client takes this very seriously and is willing
to take that action necessary to enforce its ====>>>intellectual property rights<<<====. At the same time, the
Association sees no need for an otherwise unnecessary legal dispute. Please let us have your
prompt unequivocal assurance that you will immediately:
1. Cease and desist all such deceptive use of our client’s trademarks, including the
XXX XXX Condominium name and the crown mark.
2. Cease and desist all misleading statements on your website and in any advertising,
including but not limited statements that would erroneously lead the public to
believe there is an affiliation, connection or authorization of your activities by the
Association.
3. Deactivate all content on the domain name http://XXXXXX.us/ and any other
domain name incorporating “XXX XXX” and transfer all such domain names to
the control of the Association
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/25/2017 4:13 PM
Your question is a legal one and one that needs to be asked of an attorney.

It's not unusual for an attorney to send those type of letters regardless if it's true or not.

My suggestion, add a disclaimer to the site that this is not the official website of the Association. Provide a link to the official site if one exists.

You can also offer to sell the domain name to the Association for, say $1,000 (if you want to poke that bear).

You can use it if no one else has registered it yet. Usually. If they haven't trademarked the name then that works in your favor. As long as you aren't representing the site as "The Official King-Doe Con-Doe" association domain then I think first-come first-served is how internet domain names are given out.

I'd politely decline the attorney's demand. Maybe offer to sell the domain name to the association. This kind of thing is done all the time. Some of it is shady, but it's legal. Afterward, if the attorney sends something more threatening then you might want to speak with an attorney on your own, but I think they don't have a leg to stand on.
GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
The statute cited refers specifically to a "famous mark" and applies several criteria to determine its Famous-osity-Factor. Further, the attorney referred to a crown as the famous mark.

Does your website use the famous crown mark? If not, I do not see the relevance of the statute to your situation. If I were you, I would simply make further inquiry with the attorney stating that you do not believe you are infringing on any trademarked name or "marks" and ask for further basis about the concern. I am betting that this is more of an intimidation tactic than a trademark infringement--a "who blinks" situation. I paid an attorney to call their bluff; even so, there is occasional sabre-rattling from grumpy board directors but nothing serious.

No one can predict what your association might do if you do not back down. You might indeed be "in the right" but it will cost you a bag 'o cash to defend yourself. The association has unlimited funds to torment you.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Eliot,

If it were me, I would pay for an attorney to answer on my behalf vs. figuring it out alone.
EliotD (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thanks you two for your advices!

I'll back up a little, change the domain name (I'm thinking about adressofthecondo.com), replace the stupid crown by a picture of the building... and inform the residents I received some threats from the board for trying to inform them ;)
EliotD (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
TimB4, I don't think it worth the money for now.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/25/2017 4:13 PM
Your question is a legal one and one that needs to be asked of an attorney.

It's not unusual for an attorney to send those type of letters regardless if it's true or not.

My suggestion, add a disclaimer to the site that this is not the official website of the Association. Provide a link to the official site if one exists.

You can also offer to sell the domain name to the Association for, say $1,000 (if you want to poke that bear).


Agree ... Potentially you are engaging in Freedom of Speech. If the Association did not purchase and does not OWN XXX Domain name then it is potentially yours to do with as you choose. However, that would be a quick and potentially ... cheap quick question to ask any attorney. It is not called WWW (World Wide Web) for nothing.
JonathanR1 (Georgia)
Posts: 54
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EliotD on 09/25/2017 7:27 PM
Thanks you two for your advices!

I'll back up a little, change the domain name (I'm thinking about adressofthecondo.com), replace the stupid crown by a picture of the building... and inform the residents I received some threats from the board for trying to inform them ;)

At the end of the day, I would totally try to sell the domain to the Association for a lot of money . Happens all the time. Many people are too slow to get domain names for their companies, and sometimes, they pay.
JohnB83 (South Carolina)
Posts: 124
Posted:
"Non-official website of the xxx xxxx Condo. This website is animated by the community, for the community".


Adobe flash ?

Jabberwocky ?
JasonB13 (Florida)
Posts: 37
Posted:
The statute also says that the section is not actionable for non-commercial use of the mark. The De-Facto mark thing is just strong arming the way condo lawyers make stuff up all the time.

The only think they can do is get an injunction. Curious to find out what happened with this.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
The FACT is your association already spent about $1000 for your association attorney to write that letter to you. You in return need to
pay a little cash for the advice of a patent or trademark attorney.. you might want to research websites where people used "company name sucks .com"
as a little guidance in your situation. Personally with your disclaimers, I think you're sitting pretty.

you might want to add to your website that your site in non affiliated and only a means for information etc
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/25/2017 4:41 PM
Eliot

There have been lawsuits based on like/similar/misleading, etc. names and usually the copier/dissenter lost.

Have at it at your own risk.


Of course those lawsuits were based on trademark infringement which apparently doesn't apply here.
PaininyourA
Posts: 215
Posted:
..... Non-official website of the xxx xxxx Condo. .....


I would suggest:

---> This site is not affiliated with, nor authorized by, the xxx xxx Condo. <---

YOUR site is NOT a website OF the xxx xxx Condo (official or not).

What does YOUR attorney state ?

HAPPY HOLIDAYS

MERRY CHRIST MASS
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Old thread reactivated
PaininyourA
Posts: 215
Posted:
90 days is old ?

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