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BarryR1 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Florida BOA, can a Board President sign a contract and authorize payment to remove asphalt from a car wash area and replace with brick pavers without a vote or even discussion at a Board Meeting? Our condo President, signed a contract and authorized a payment for the installation of pavers which was not required by code or law; nor was the area in need of repair. The amount was $4,200. I requested a copy of the contract and payment which was provided. I filed a complaint with the Florida DBPR which was based on the fact that no public notice was given of Board Meeting where the subject of the complaint was discussed(Contracting and payment for pavers). The paver project was not included in the 2017 or 2016 budgets. Reviewing 3 years of minutes, there has never been discussion of this project. Copies of the budget, minutes, by-laws etc were included in the complaint. The State responded back that there was not a violation.

“You have alleged that the Association spent too much money for the purchase and installation of pavers to the car wash areas for a total of $4,200 without a majority vote of unit owners or a majority vote of the board. The board of directors has to power to mange, maintain, and operate the condominium property. Based on the preceding, there is not a violation and this case has been closed.”

Personally, I feel the State misunderstood the complaint. There was no mention of the amount being too much. The issue was if the Board had approved, there was no public notice of the meeting. As it turned out, this was a decision made solely by the the Board President and the State was informed of that. The State clearly says in their response that a majority vote of the is not required ("....or a majority vote of the board")

Based on what the State has ruled, this indicates that a BOA President can contract and authorize payment for a project if it's called maintenance and does not require information to the Board or owners, and does not even need to budgeted. The State mentioned in a phone conversation that since paving/asphalt was in the reserve budget the project was covered by the budget. The annual budget has no mention of use of the reserves for a paving project. The financial statement does show the reserve fund which includes asphalt replacement.

The Board did meet a month after payment was made. The President made a motion to approve the project and payment. The Board members present where not aware of the project. When a question was asked by an owner about the project, the BOA attorney said questions and discussion would and could not take place because a complaint with DBPR had been filed. When pressed further, the attorney said answers could be provided after 60 days.

In this instance, does it appear that DBPR is allowing the authority for a BOA President to sign contracts and authorize payment without Board approval or even discussion as long as a competitive bid is not required?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarryR1 on 09/23/2017 8:28 AM

Florida BOA, can a Board President sign a contract and authorize payment to remove asphalt from a car wash area and replace with brick pavers without a vote or even discussion at a Board Meeting?

That will depend on the wording in your governing documents and any earlier actions by the Board.

Example: If the Board gave authority to the President to deal with the issue as he saw best, then the individual was acting within their authority.

If you are on the Board, you should bring the issue up and, perhaps, make a motion to remove the individual as President.

If you are not on the Board, you should gather support and show up with as many other members who can at the Board meeting and ask who authorized and was the Board aware of the action before or after the fact.
BarryR1 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thanks for the information. The governing documents refer to the "Board" having the authority just as the State Statutes do. However, this President has been in office for over a decade and yes, this is fairly standard practice of how this person manages. I had decided when I got the response from the State to just let it go and indeed, get my neighbors and myself to run for the Board and get a majority. Thanks for the practical insight and advice!
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarryR1 on 09/23/2017 8:59 AM
Thanks for the information. The governing documents refer to the "Board" having the authority just as the State Statutes do. However, this President has been in office for over a decade and yes, this is fairly standard practice of how this person manages. I had decided when I got the response from the State to just let it go and indeed, get my neighbors and myself to run for the Board and get a majority. Thanks for the practical insight and advice!

Smart thinking.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
If the president is acting with the support of the board, either explicit or tacit, then you are facing an uphill battle to do anything about it right now.

As you have surmised and other posters have supported, the best long term plan is to get some fresh blood, including possibly yourself, on the board. This should involve identifying candidates, making sure they understand what they are getting into, making sure they are willing to dedicate the time and effort required, and campaigning to get those candidates elected. Face to face with as many homeowners as possible would be my suggestion, including impressing on them the importance of actually voting, or giving you their proxies if allowed in your association. You can also use mailers or just put flyers on doors, but knocking and talking is likely to be most effective. Note that the existing board will find out about this effort, and may try to fight back in various ways.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/23/2017 9:13 AM
Posted By BarryR1 on 09/23/2017 8:59 AM
Thanks for the information. The governing documents refer to the "Board" having the authority just as the State Statutes do. However, this President has been in office for over a decade and yes, this is fairly standard practice of how this person manages. I had decided when I got the response from the State to just let it go and indeed, get my neighbors and myself to run for the Board and get a majority. Thanks for the practical insight and advice!


Smart thinking.
<

That is your best avenue on this issue. When owner's do not pay attention to what their Board is doing ... things like this happen. Did he potentially scratch a buddies back in awarding the work ... well you will not know because you and your fellow owners were not there when was taking place and DID NOT prevent the action you are now angry about. When it comes to HOA's and your property rights you need to be PRO ACTIVE and not POST ACTIVE!

While it unfortunately took an action to make homeowners become involved ... please ... everyone stay involved!
BarryR1 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
That's the point of the question and the complaint with the State. The homeowners are paying attention. The Board Prez, planned, signed a contract and paid without informing anyone not even other Board Members. After the project was complete and paid, the item was added to the agenda, discussion was not permitted by the attorney because of the pending State complaint. The Board Members tried to ask questions and the lawyer said they couldn't be answered. The Board members then proceeded to vote for the project and payment even though it had been put past them without their knowledge. The only reason info came out about the contract and payment was through a records request. The State is supporting the action of the Board Prez saying that this was a maintenance issue. Yes it does appear the only resolution is to get new people on the Board. However, not all problems are created because of disinterested homeowners. There are incidences where Board Members, especially long term Presidents, take advantage of their position to push their own agenda. How can homeowners be vigilant if a project isn't even discussed?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarryR1 on 09/26/2017 7:21 AM

How can homeowners be vigilant if a project isn't even discussed?

Gather support and show up at a Board meeting with a lot of people and ask the Board to remove that individual as president for cause.

Gather support and do a recall election due to those actions.
RobertaS2 (Michigan)
Posts: 81
Posted:
It is very unfortunate when people sit on a Board only to hoard or misuse power. And very ugly. Often, very expensive for the Association members as well. And it is hard on a community. People get disheartened that they can change what seems set in stone. And many people get weary of fighting for basic things like discussion, notice, etc.

I find happy people make the best Board members because they don't need power over others because they have a life. Happy people want to get things done and go home to their spouses, or have a beer, and watch Football (!), not dwell on and on, so they are also more efficient.

Beware of people with Napolean Complex.

Best of luck to you and your community.

CarlJ2 (Texas)
Posts: 194
Posted:
Constant awareness of the actions an HOA BOD is the price of living in an HOA and mitigating the threat it can represent. IF the board colludes in secret then gather support and throw 'em out.
BarryR1 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Wow, thanks so much for the positive insight. I came from a Board like that. We had a good time, was serious about running a business. and our meetings had really good turn outs because they were fun. Most of the time we needed to usher people out to lock the club house and get home. Really, thanks again for the positive spin!!
BarryR1 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Interesting you bring up the subject of a recall. Just met with a group of owner this afternoon. Mentioned that we need to start working getting the right people to run for the Board next year. One very astute owner mentioned that elections are six months away and a lot of harm can be done in that time. We have a critical meeting tomorrow dealing with issues from Hurricane Matthew; yes, last year's storm. Going to try to get through that and then possibly put real energy into a recall. It's such a divisive action. The other Board Members could just remove her from office but that means one of them would need to take the Prez role and none of them want that responsibility. What a learning experience!!
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
You're right, Barry, an election is the easiest way to build a fresh, upbeat Board with integrity. Avoid a recall if you can. Find good people.

How many are on the current Board? Are they fully aware that THEY are liable for the President's actions?? Why? Because they stand by and do nothing. They are NOT practicing due diligence, i.e, careful inquiry. Maybe if they realize they could get in legal hot water, they will change things now.

The first thing to try is to pressure the current Board to vote at at duly noticed meeting that all decisions must be made by the Board -- per your governing documents.

You still, as Tim advised, should get as many to attend open meetings as s possible and demand that the Board remove the president from office. They does not have to be 'cause." But if the current board is too ignorant, lazy or intimidated you owners keep that pressure on the Board to follow you docs.

Carl might want to note that this and many cases are similar in that a Board defers to an abusive prez. It does take knowledgeable, non-lethargic Owners to keep their community on the right track. But isn't that true of any organization??? We get the (so-called) leaders we deserve?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Barry,

Keep in mind that with petition requirements for the membership to call a special meeting of the members for the purpose of a recall, the time to gather signatures, the time for the Board to verify the signatures, notice requirements, etc. a recall can take 3 to 4 months to accomplish.

Lets say it's four months.
Then 2 months later, the Association still has to hold new elections at the annual meeting
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarryR1 on 09/26/2017 3:47 PM
Interesting you bring up the subject of a recall. Just met with a group of owner this afternoon. Mentioned that we need to start working getting the right people to run for the Board next year. One very astute owner mentioned that elections are six months away and a lot of harm can be done in that time. We have a critical meeting tomorrow dealing with issues from Hurricane Matthew; yes, last year's storm. Going to try to get through that and then possibly put real energy into a recall. It's such a divisive action. The other Board Members could just remove her from office but that means one of them would need to take the Prez role and none of them want that responsibility. What a learning experience!!


Well ... then if the individual goes behind your backs again ... the other BOD members have no one to blame but themselves, because nobody stepped up to the plate to FIX the problem.
StevenS14 (California)
Posts: 3
Posted:
I have a similar situation here in a California HOA. The HOA Board approved a front yard landscaping re-design project for everyone's front yard, but it exceeded their annual project spending limits by $18,000 and the total project cost $170,000 for the entire community was never recorded as a periodic replacement item (like fences or street paving) in the HOA Budget or 30 year Reserve Study. They are apparently trying to call it extensive "maintenance" of front yards, but it was never recorded as an expense item.

I now have an attorney who is checking these issues.
Please let me know if you are interested in my results or if you have found any new information that might help keep HOA Boards and their members from spending with no limits and breaking the HOA rules that they were elected to enforce.
BarryR1 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Yes, please keep me updated on what your lawyer finds. At the last meeting of the Board, I raised the question about when the improvement was discussed and voted on, and who approved the payment. For the past two meetings, the Board has the attorney sit in on the meetings. The attorney responded the matter couldn't be discussed because there was a pending complaint. He knew, but didn't bother to tell the Board, that the complaint had been turned down by the State. The Prez, Chair of the Meeting, got so frustrated she turned over her role as Chair to the Attorney. Not the Vice Prez or any Officer of the Corp, the attorney!! The Prez then made a motion to approve the project and expenditure, months after the project had been completed and paid. Two Board members had questions but the attorney blocked discussion saying there was a motion on the floor. As most Boards do, they vote to support. The attorney has now also announced that homeowners may no longer speak at meetings, even though the rules day owners may speak for 3 minutes per agenda item after the Board discussion but before a vote if one is taken. I've now hired an attorney to deal with this matter. Sorry for getting off the original point; these things can grow out of control when a home owner actually starts challenging a Board that feels they do not have to follow rules, respond to owners etc. Again, please keep me up to date on your case. Thanks!!
CarlJ2 (Texas)
Posts: 194
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 09/27/2017 6:23 PM
Carl might want to note that this and many cases are similar in that a Board defers to an abusive prez. It does take knowledgeable, non-lethargic Owners to keep their community on the right track. But isn't that true of any organization??? We get the (so-called) leaders we deserve?

Sure, but that is always going to be especially true of the HOA governance construct. So much advantage is tipped toward the HOA.

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