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CarolynP3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 3
Posted:
We are a community of townhomes in North Carolina with duel problems.
There are no NC Statutes that cover townhomes, condo’s and Planned Developments, yes.
We are self governing with no management company and have been for 40+ years.

In 2015 we held elections at our annual meeting. One fellow was voted in and ended up being the President. Since then, there have been plus’s and lots of minus’s.

He decided the cost to repair, replace and paint the wood siding on our homes was costing to much and launched a program to replace the siding with HardiPlank. Good product, good idea.
He secured a very large loan that we the homeowners have to pay back in 15 years. It was voted on by the homeowners, and passed.

The first rub has come with the selection of colors. He, his girlfriend and two other homeowners picked out at his urging the darkest grays, brown, a dark blue and one light color.
A color war erupted. After many heated emails and postings on a web site urging a lighter pallet,
he somehow got the board to approve it. The homeowners had NO VOTE. To date there are about 20 happy people and the other 200+ are very unhappy.

Now for the second rub. He works and delegated his girlfriend small duties to do for him. Well she went out of the start gate like a Lynx. She ultimately is controlling just anything you can think of from parking to plants to the office. We have had four gals in the office since April of 2016. They just walked out. She barks orders and if you don’t comply, you get a fine. The “Queen” is totally out of control. You ask how can she do this?

In 2015 the Guidelines were re-written, which he spearheaded, and it says “any resident” can serve on a committee. The “Queen” has no vested interest in the community. She is a resident in the President’s home. We have had committee people quit. No one will take a committee job because of her, so with no one doing the volunteer work……she is. But with her rules. She also uses the townhome credit card and checkbook. This is scary, as no one can see the bills or checkbook.

Since the Chairman of the Architectural Committee quit, we found out today the “Queen” is now the project manager for the siding project. One homeowner wanted her resume on her qualifications in the construction field from the President……no answer.

How do we get the President out of office?
Is there any way to get rid of this dog and pony show?
ANY ideas, rules, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
We are having another annual meeting the end of Sept and I personally would like to see a mutiny.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Mutiny is the way to go to get rid of a President. I know... It happened to me. Mutiny is the way to go to get rid of any officer or board. Just need the majority of vote of owners who agree plus a replacement candidate. There you go!

Former HOA President
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Normally the members vote for directors at the annual meeting, and then the directors elect the officers (president, for example) from amongst themselves. Directors can vote new officers in at any properly noticed board meeting. If a majority of the directors want a different president, that is easy to do, just make a motion, second, and vote. What you can't do is remove the director from the board, typically only the members can recall a director assuming all other qualifications are met.

Note that is is the most common case and your state law and governing docs (bylaws/CCRs/etc.) could have some variance to this, but probably not.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Melissa probably is wrong, Carolyn, and Douglas is right. In most HOAs the president is elected or appointed by the members of the board of directors. So....a majority of the other directors can simply vote the president out of that office even if the person stays on the Board. See you bylaws for more.

Are you on the board, Carolyn? How many are? Can't they just vote this guy out? Or are they afraid of him & his queen?
CarolynP3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Kerry
There are 9 on the board.
Four are close "friends". One of these isn't a homeowner
Three I'm not how they side
Two.....they are there in body

CarolynP3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Melissa, since you have first hand knowledge.
Could you elaborate on how the mutiny went down?
I couldn't find the instruction book on the web.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Easy... The scumbag con-artist lying ex-president... Which was funny cause I had already announced I had quit and bought another house in another neighborhood. He put in the very people I had protected the HOA from. They had the HOA broke within 6 months, needed a special assessment, and I had to appear in court for them...

6 months later the truth came out. The President apologized to me. Plus had many neighbors come up to tell me what lies they had been told. Some were pretty good have to admit. One even had the police involved. My favorite was how I was "stalking" the ex-president. Which I must have been terrible at because I sold my house and moved...

Nothing wrong with a good mutiny. It's pretty much the same as a majority vote. Which majority rules.

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
So....Carolyn, you're saying the Board will NOT vote this guy out of the role of president? And you're saying you're not on the board?

It's generally cheapest and easiest to wait until your September and vote some new directors in who'll outvote this prez. OR, better yet, if he's up for reelection, gather support for other candidates so he's defeated. How many open seats will there be on the board? You need to find good people to fill them and run a factual and honest campaign.

It's not "mutiny," it's pretty much democracy.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Sorry, for some reason I assumed you were on the board and had the support of other board members.

From the outside, you would need to follow Kerry's advice and get "better" board members in there. The simplest way to do this is during the normal annual election process. Find candidates, and campaign for them. Go door to door talking to owners and make sure they vote. Depending on your documents, all directors might be up for election every year, or they may have staggered terms where only some seats are up each year. The former case obviously makes it easier to "flush" the board.

The other option is a recall, there should be procedures for this in your governing docs, if not, state non-profit corporation law might have details. Since this can be fairly technical it is best to have legal help to make sure it is done properly.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolynP3 on 09/18/2017 5:22 PM

There are no NC Statutes that cover townhomes, condo’s and Planned Developments, yes.

I believe you are mistaken.

Expecting your Association is incorporated as a nonprofit (most are, but check to be sure) then the
"North Carolina Nonprofit Corporation Act would be applicable.

Town homes are either fee simple (meaning the owner owns the land and the structure) and would be considered an HOA or they are lease hold (meaning the owner owns from the drywall in) and would be considered a condominium.

As an HOA, the North Carolina Planned Community Act may be applicable see NC § 47F-1-102 to find out.

As a condominium, the North Carolina Condominium Act may be applicable. See NC § 47C-1-102 to find out.

Quote:
Posted By CarolynP3 on 09/18/2017 5:22 PM

The first rub has come with the selection of colors. He, his girlfriend and two other homeowners picked out at his urging the darkest grays, brown, a dark blue and one light color.
A color war erupted. After many heated emails and postings on a web site urging a lighter pallet,
he somehow got the board to approve it. The homeowners had NO VOTE. To date there are about 20 happy people and the other 200+ are very unhappy.

Keep in mind that this would be a Board decision.

Yes, it would have been better if the Board sought input from the membership.
That didn't happen.

The good thing is the next board can change things.

Quote:
Posted By CarolynP3 on 09/18/2017 5:22 PM

The first rub has come with the selection of colors. He, his girlfriend and two other homeowners picked Now for the second rub. He works and delegated his girlfriend small duties to do for him. Well she went out of the start gate like a Lynx. She ultimately is controlling just anything you can think of from parking to plants to the office. We have had four gals in the office since April of 2016. They just walked out. She barks orders and if you don’t comply, you get a fine. The “Queen” is totally out of control. You ask how can she do this?

She can do this because others allow her to.
Period.

The President and Directors can do what they do because others allow them to.
Period.

Quote:
Posted By CarolynP3 on 09/18/2017 5:22 PM

In 2015 the Guidelines were re-written, which he spearheaded, and it says “any resident” can serve on a committee.

Keep in mind that committee members serve at the pleasure of the Board (i.e. the board appoints and the board can remove).

My Association allows residents (members or not) to serve on committees.
We simply don't have enough volunteers otherwise.
Some of the skill sets the non-members bring are better then the skill sets the members who are willing to volunteer bring. Hence, I don't see this policy as an issue.

The issue is the individual - not the policy.

Quote:
Posted By CarolynP3 on 09/18/2017 5:22 PM

She also uses the townhome credit card and checkbook. This is scary, as no one can see the bills or checkbook.

A) The Treasurer should be seeing the bills and making reports to the Board.

B) expecting that your Association is incorporated, per NC § 55A-16-02 which says (in part):

(a) A member is entitled to inspect and copy, at a reasonable time and location specified by the corporation, any of the records of the corporation described in G.S. 55A-16-01(e) if the member gives the corporation written notice of his demand at least five
business days before the date on which the member wishes to inspect and copy.
(b) A member is entitled to inspect and copy, at a reasonable time and reasonable location specified by the corporation, any of the following records of the corporation if the member meets the requirements of subsection (c) of this section and gives the corporation written notice of his demand at least five business days before the date on which the member wishes to inspect and copy:
(1) Excerpts from any records required to be maintained under G.S. 55A-16-01(a), to the extent not subject to inspection under G.S. 55A-16-02(a);
(2) Accounting records of the corporation; and
(3) Subject to G.S. 55A-16-05, the membership list.

Quote:
Posted By CarolynP3 on 09/18/2017 5:22 PM

One homeowner wanted her [the Queens] resume on her qualifications in the construction field from the President……no answer.

Don't hold your breath on getting such a document.
Typically, the fact that someone volunteered is all it takes to serve.

Instead of demanding this or that, people need to step up and serve.

Quote:
Posted By CarolynP3 on 09/18/2017 5:22 PM

How do we get the President out of office?

You don't. Who serves as President is a Board decision.

However, expecting that the individual is also serving as a Director (Directors and Officers are two different positions) then you can organize and recall that individual.
OR
You can organize and simply not reelect that individual at the next election.

Quote:
Posted By CarolynP3 on 09/18/2017 5:22 PM

Is there any way to get rid of this dog and pony show?

Yes, with the annual election so close, you need to gather support.
You gather support with newsletters and talking to neighbors.
You gather support with facts not embellishments.
You don't refer to the individual as the Queen. That simply indicates the issue may be a personality conflict vs. an actual issue and anyone gathering support needs to be above that.

You stated that the individual (the queen) is hard to work with.
Gather volunteers willing to serve (get a lot of them) if that individual is removed from the committee.
A show of numbers at the annual meeting explaining this will go a long way in convincing anyone on the Board who may be on the fence or simply doesn't care.

USE the paint pallet issue as a rally point.

Gather volunteers willing to serve on the Board and support to vote them into office.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Do follow Tim's advice, Carolyn. As you can see, it'll take a lot of work and time is running out!

Get busy really fast--it's your home and y'all need to step up and stop being bullied!
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Tim's advice is succinct and on point, Carolyn, and I echo what Kerry said as well.

Time is running short so you really need to start getting organized and gathering support. One other thing to consider, if your state laws and governing documents permit it, is asking for people whose doors you knock on to give you their proxy in advance of the annual meeting. A proxy will allow you to cast the vote of the owner who gave you the proxy. Maybe some won't want to do this, but it can't hurt to ask.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 09/18/2017 10:25 PM
Tim's advice is succinct and on point, Carolyn, and I echo what Kerry said as well.

Time is running short so you really need to start getting organized and gathering support. One other thing to consider, if your state laws and governing documents permit it, is asking for people whose doors you knock on to give you their proxy in advance of the annual meeting. A proxy will allow you to cast the vote of the owner who gave you the proxy. Maybe some won't want to do this, but it can't hurt to ask.


Awesome!!! Both Tim and Geno hit the nails.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/18/2017 7:40 PM
Posted By CarolynP3 on 09/18/2017 5:22 PM

There are no NC Statutes that cover townhomes, condo’s and Planned Developments, yes.


I believe you are mistaken.

Expecting your Association is incorporated as a nonprofit (most are, but check to be sure) then the
"North Carolina Nonprofit Corporation Act would be applicable.

Town homes are either fee simple (meaning the owner owns the land and the structure) and would be considered an HOA or they are lease hold (meaning the owner owns from the drywall in) and would be considered a condominium.

As an HOA, the North Carolina Planned Community Act may be applicable see NC § 47F-1-102 to find out.

As a condominium, the North Carolina Condominium Act may be applicable. See NC § 47C-1-102 to find out.


The idea of fee simple or leasehold cannot be used to distinguish a condo versus part of an HOA.

Condo units are usually sold as fee simple real estate.

A "leasehold condominium" refers to the entire condominium complex (all the units) being built on leased land (typically a very long-term lease that allows for the construction of condo units). Leasehold condominiums are fairly rare, but the law allows for them. A leasehold condo therefore has nothing to do with the boundaries of a condo (drywall in, paint in, studs in or other boundary). A condo unit within a leasehold condominium is typically sold as fee simple.

Coops use proprietary leases, but that is another story.

If your townhouse is a condo, then your governing documents (declaration) will state that it is a condo. The tax assessor in my state also classifies a townhouse as a condominium (if it is one), so it can be found in letters from the assessor or tax records. Typically, the word Condominium is included in the name of the owners association.

If you are not a condo, your community may still be subject to parts of the NC Planned Community Act, as Tim pointed out, as long as you meet the definition of a planned community in § 47F-1-103 (23).

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