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BillyC3 (Kansas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
I'm looking for software that an organize our contact information better and integrate with our email lists.

We currently use GNU Mailman for our email distribution lists, and a Google Drive 'drawing' of our neighborhood I made based off or county plat lines ( https://timberridgevillas.com/lot-numbering-map/ ).

It's a pain in the butt because there's separate lists of email addresses for each mailing list (there are four including the committees and board), which are separate from the contact list that we print and mail out. I have to keep these in sync by hand and I'm tired of being 'that a$$hole' who keeps making mistakes.

I'd like one unified interface, and to improve it a step, I'd like for any resident to be able to click on any lot, and pull up the owner's/occupants, and any contact information that they wanted to share with other residents. Bonus points if it integrates with our wordpress.

What are my options?
CjC
Posts: 210
Posted:
We use NextDoor. It a social media site that allows us to define the boundaries and anyone joining must live within the boundaries. There is a map to click on to see who lives there only if they have registered with next door. We have 415 homes in out HOA and about 390 have registered. We can post things just to our neighborhood (like agendas and minutes) or to all neighboring neighborhoods (we have 8 within 5 miles) with things for sale, closed roads etc. There are posts with lively debates and a way to private message someone. The end user (homeowner) is responsible to updating email addresses and can opt in or out of daily, weekly update emails from the site. We find it useful, but like any social media, we have to reign in the gossip on the site periodically and we have threatened to kick off people who directly offend a neighbor.
BillyC3 (Kansas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
Yeah, I've heard of NextDoor, reserved our name on it some time ago, but I don't like it because it's completely controlled by an external company, and ad-based. I don't want to endorse any 3rd party products under HOA business.

I also count NextDoor out because it requires homeowners to willfully participate. I want a system in which all lots are tracked without regard to homeowner's intention of participating. I'd let them decide to what extent their info is shared through the system with others, but they should't get a choice not to be in the HOA's records.
MichaelH25 (Kansas)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I thought NextDoor would be what we "wanted", but after using it for awhile, it became nothing more than a social media snafu... in order to have a legitimate, mature app, I would recommend having a website for the HOA. In order to get a handle on emailing documents to HOA members, we must first get the email addresses of our HOA members. We are getting there... I don't know if there is an application, other then Microsoft Outlook that could provide you with what you want. Outlook is what I have used for decades... it worked very well for my years of military service, as well as for what I use at work. Simply make your email groups in Outlook, give the "group" a placeholder name, than you're off!
BillyC3 (Kansas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
Gmail and Google groups could come pretty close to that too. Except with Google groups we don't posses the message archives ourselves, and there are folks who will refuse to use anything with Google's name on it out of emotion.

I would like something for example, that knows when email to the members bounces, and flags heir account for an email problem. Then any flagged accounts or accounts without emails trigger the printing of a paper copy of the message, that we can post to them.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
I use excel as a list of members.
The categories are:

Lot #
Property Address
Owners Name
Mailing Address
Email
Phone
Property Managers name
PM address
PM email
PM phone

I also utilize Thunderbird for email.
Within thunderbird you can have multiple address books.
For association email, I always use the Lot # as the name.
This way, as addresses change, it's easy to locate and update/eliminate the email address.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
NextDoor is garbage. We have essentially 3 distribution lists for email.

1. HOA general and emergency contact
2. With written permission, those who wish to receive notices by email
3. Social events and newsletters
4. With written permission, email addresses that may be published in the community directory

I created a small SQLite database the controls which email addresses belong on which list. The user interface is Python scripts run from the Windows command line. When I need an email distribution list for something, there's a script to extract the appropriate email addresses from the database and generate a VCF file (see vCard on Wikipedia). The vCard format file can be imported into a wide range of email programs and services, such as Gmail and Outlook. A lot of other email systems are also able to import it. But not AOL. It takes less than a minute to generate the distribution list VCF file as long as the database is kept up to date.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
OK, 4 lists, not 3
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Geno,

What about the individual who comes after you.

Does the database require a program to run?
Are the scripts automated or require multiple steps?
Have you put together a step by step manual for the next person who might have zero computer literacy?
BillyC3 (Kansas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
I think literacy is a basic requirement of any professional position.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Billy,

We are discussing volunteers to an HOA.
Not professional positions (professional being defined as being paid for your work).

My parents would gladly volunteer to serve in an HOA.
They would be very good at it.
They have ZERO computer skills.
BillyC3 (Kansas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
I would contend that merely being glad to volunteer to do something (how ever wonderful that is) doesn't mean one should do it.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
True.

However, the lack of volunteers in a self managed Association means (from personal experience) we won't turn you away. We have had a vacant seat on the Board for the last 5 years. Next year (based on the number of volunteers) we will have two vacant seats.

BillyC3 (Kansas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
I would think at that point it would be prudent to hire out all professional functions to a management company.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
I've told this story before.

We had a person who know MS Access.
They built a wonderful database for the Architectural Committee.
It maintained the membership list, kept track of exterior changes & approved/unapproved requests as well as the original paint colors and manufacture name/product for those colors.

When that person left, those who served (including a professional - i.e. paid) never used it.
When I served on that committee, I found the CD with the database structure and data in the files.
I happened to have MSAccess and saw what was done.
Unfortunately, the data was 10 years out of date.

We, as a committee, chose to go paper and pen and classification file folders.
This works as easily as the database.
It takes more paper and storage space but anyone can maintain it and utilize it regardless of their computer skills.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillyC3 on 09/18/2017 8:17 PM
I would think at that point it would be prudent to hire out all professional functions to a management company.

Ahh, but you still have to have the volunteers.
An MC only removes some of the work load - not the responsibility.

Additionally, in our case, it would require membership approval to raise assessments high enough to pay for the MC.
BillyC3 (Kansas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
The problem with that access database wasn't that computers are bad and I don't want to keep my knowledge of the world relevant. It's that nobody has ever heard of THAT access database before. There's no company behind it, no support for the product.

Unless your HOA community is Amish, you can't expect to not understand technology, and be an effective board member.

What happens if those precious sheets of paper get wet or burn? How do you compose new documents as a group? Are they backed up nightly offsite?

This is starting to drift a little off topic though. I'm not looking for a solution to all our paperwork. Just contact information email distribution, and an interactive map where homeowners could share information about their household with the rest of the neighborhood.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/18/2017 7:54 PM
Geno,

What about the individual who comes after you.

Not to be flip, Tim, but that's going to be their problem. What I have is a tool that helps me. When I'm not doing it anymore they're on their own. The scripts are not automated beyond the command line parameters that select what kind of list you want and the name of the output file. There's another script to add email addresses, another to change the flags regarding permissions, one to delete or "expire" addresses, etc.

SQLite is a standalone database that doesn't need to be on a server, it's local to the machine it's on. Python has "hooks" into it so the database sits there and the Python interacts with it. There are versions for Windows and Linux and I've tested and validated the scripts on both. It also would work on Apple hardware having been around since Mac OSX 4 (ca. 2005) I could hand it off to someone else and show them the scripts of which there are maybe 4 or so. One is just for backup/export/import. I am willing to do that and will offer to do it when the time comes. If nobody bites then I will run off a human-readable export of the data and pass it on. Will take all of 30 seconds.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillyC3 on 09/18/2017 8:12 PM
I would contend that merely being glad to volunteer to do something (how ever wonderful that is) doesn't mean one should do it.

There's a certain amount of truth to this. Every year we have a director or two who are essentially warm bodies who may have a passing familiarity with our documents but not much else. The idea of fiduciary duty is probably not something they could define.

As for hiring a management company, easier said than done. There are a lot of benefits there, especially when almost no one in the community is willing to raise a finger to help, but they come with a cost. When our president resigned and moved out of the community last year his parting words were, "You should really think about hiring a management company." Raising monthly assessments $20 (we solicited bids) is politically untenable and a non-starter for most of the board. One owner, who was the Treasurer for a few years, wanted to amend the CCRs to include a provision that the homeowners must vote to approve any board decision to hire a management company.

There are a lot of new owners here in the last 5 years. Over 50% of the homes. A good number of them aren't entirely pleased about how things are currently done and they seem to realize that improving the situation may result in budget increases.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 09/18/2017 9:12 PM
Posted By TimB4 on 09/18/2017 7:54 PM
Geno,

What about the individual who comes after you.

Not to be flip, Tim, but that's going to be their problem.

No problem.

I like to look down the road and, if possible, make it easier for those who come after me.
Perhaps it's my military training kicking in.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillyC3 on 09/18/2017 8:27 PM
The problem with that access database wasn't that computers are bad and I don't want to keep my knowledge of the world relevant. It's that nobody has ever heard of THAT access database before.

Microsoft Access

See: https://products.office.com/en-us/access

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Access

Granted, I don't think it's the best.
I don't use it now.
However, I have used it and have some knowledge of it.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillyC3 on 09/18/2017 10:01 AM
Gmail and Google groups could come pretty close to that too. Except with Google groups we don't posses the message archives ourselves, and there are folks who will refuse to use anything with Google's name on it out of emotion.

I would like something for example, that knows when email to the members bounces, and flags heir account for an email problem. Then any flagged accounts or accounts without emails trigger the printing of a paper copy of the message, that we can post to them.


Have you looked into something like Constant Contact? While I am not a huge fan of it ... it does potentially hit all your nails with regards to email notices.

For HOA I have utilized Excel as my database via merging and sending Word document emails. Also, same as Geno I have used SQL database. However, I agree with Tim in the fact many individuals have MS products installed on their computers or have used in their work environments and are familiar with them ... which makes a future transition of HOA duties easier.
GuyS (Arizona)
Posts: 19
Posted:
We use a couple different approaches. Our master database of homeowners is written in FileMaker Pro. This database has essential contact information for every homeowner, billing addresses, etc. We can send mailings to selected groups of homeowners from this application, create semi-annual invoices, etc. All data in this database is considered confidential, to be used only for HOA business. It is available only to the Board. From this database, we generate reports for Board members so they can look up information when they do not have access to the database (only two members have access because of licensing issues). We have email addresses for about 90% of our homeowners. We try to keep the number of emails sent to these lists down to about 12 per year (more and some homeowners don't want to receive any emails).

We have also solicited emails and phone numbers from people who want to be in a printed directory. This data is managed by the same database but is not used for email distribution. The advantage of having all this information in the central database is that, when a homeowner sells, he is automatically removed from any mailing lists when the entry for the property is updated. Perhaps 2/3 of our homeowners participate in the directory.

Finally, we have a website and provide a way for homeowners to subscribe to updates so they can be informed the next morning of every new post on the website. This is implemented using MailChimp, with an online sign-up form to subscribe to the list. Perhaps 1/3 of our homeowners subscribe to this list.

Committees maintain their own lists, usually just by defining a "group" in an email program and sharing it among themselves.

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