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HOA ignores dangers on common property

Started by GenoS • 21 replies • 1429 views

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GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I spoke to a guy today who lives in my HOA. He and his wife are not homeowners; he is the stepson of the owner and as such we do not consider him to be a renter. During the storm last week a large tree limb over his driveway came crashing down and went right through the windshield of his truck. He said he's going through his insurance to get it fixed - the hood and roof above the glass was also damaged - but he wants to know how he can get the HOA to trim the other tree branches still hanging over his driveway. Some of them appear to be dead. I told him to submit a "Landscape Request" form that we have available in our mailhouse. He made a face and said, "Again?" Apparently he has submitted 4 in the last 6 months and all were ignored.

I went and spoke with the chairwoman of the landscape committee to see if what he said was true. I asked if she would look through the processed "Lanscape Requests" going back to last year in order to verify or dispute that the guy actually had submitted requests for tree trimming. She told me, "We don't save those."

Is this any way to run an airline?
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
BTW the trees are on association common property. The driveways here are also common property.
GeorgeR8 (Arizona)
Posts: 182
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 09/17/2017 1:51 AM
I spoke to a guy today who lives in my HOA. He and his wife are not homeowners; he is the stepson of the owner and as such we do not consider him to be a renter. During the storm last week a large tree limb over his driveway came crashing down and went right through the windshield of his truck. He said he's going through his insurance to get it fixed - the hood and roof above the glass was also damaged - but he wants to know how he can get the HOA to trim the other tree branches still hanging over his driveway. Some of them appear to be dead. I told him to submit a "Landscape Request" form that we have available in our mailhouse. He made a face and said, "Again?" Apparently he has submitted 4 in the last 6 months and all were ignored.

I went and spoke with the chairwoman of the landscape committee to see if what he said was true. I asked if she would look through the processed "Lanscape Requests" going back to last year in order to verify or dispute that the guy actually had submitted requests for tree trimming. She told me, "We don't save those."

Is this any way to run an airline?

He is a renter. Should be treated as a renter. The owner should put in the request. The owner should have been told why the request was denied or hasn't been acted on yet. The requests and the decisions should be in that homes file. Time for a new landscape chair.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
No lease = not a renter in our book. His stepfather owns the home and we have no requirement for the owner to supply a copy of the lease when a family member resides in the home.
PainintheA
Posts: 43
Posted:
Allow me to rephrase on George's behalf:

He is not an owner. Should not be treated as a member. The owner should put in the request. The owner should have been told why the request was denied or hasn't been acted on yet. The requests and the decisions should be in that homes file. Time for a new landscape chair.


Agree 100%
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
None of the HOA's business of the relationship of the person living in the home. Even if there is a lease or not. The person is a resident and NOT an owner. The owner is still responsible for what their resident/renter does in the HOA. Hence why I say you put into the lease to obey the HOA rules in it. (NOT HOA responsibility to tell an owner to do that).
Former HOA President
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
OK, I'll buy that. Communication should go through the owner. Let's say the guy was an owner. What then?

We have a maintenance committee that also uses little carbonless-copy slips that must be filled out by hand in order to ask for something to be maintained or fixed. The handling of communications between owners and committees, where the committees don't retain copies of the requests makes it very hard, in my opinion, to ensure any accountability at all. Shouldn't records like that be kept in case of a "he said/she said" dispute over whether or not something was requested and repeatedly ignored?

If the guy in question was me, and tree branches crashed through the windshield of my car, and I had requested 5 times in 6 months for them to be pruned or trimmed, I'd be pretty upset. I'd make sure my insurance company knew that my repeated requests to deal with the potential dangerous situation had been ignored.
PainintheA
Posts: 43
Posted:
The OWNER should send a certified, return receipt letter / maintenance request to the REGISTERED AGENT of the association.

Once notified of a 'hazard tree' the Association becomes legally responsible for any damage caused by said 'hazard tree'.

PERIOD

Keep photocopies of the contents of the letter.

If returned DO NOT, repeat NOT, open the letter.

Staple the copies to the unopened letter for the JUDGE to open.

CASE CLOSED AND WON
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PainintheA on 09/17/2017 1:59 PM
The OWNER should send a certified, return receipt letter / maintenance request to the REGISTERED AGENT of the association.

Except that that's not the policy here, as promulgated 8 years ago by the board. All requests for landscaping or maintenance MUST be submitted on the provided paper forms. That policy does not contradict anything in the documents. As far as FS 720 goes, the official records of the association include, among many other things, "All other written records of the association not specifically included in the foregoing which are related to the operation of the association."

I plan on bringing this up next week when we discuss the agenda for the upcoming board meeting. I think it's ridiculous that these hardcopy handwritten requests aren't saved or logged anywhere.
PainintheA
Posts: 43
Posted:
All requests for landscaping or maintenance MUST be submitted on the provided paper forms.


No problem.

Submit said form as stated above.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
The branch fell in a storm.
Are the remaining branches in good health, or are they dead, rotting, and a hazard?

If they're in good health, the HOA should be under no obligation to trim them.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DaveD3 on 09/17/2017 6:29 PM
The branch fell in a storm.
Are the remaining branches in good health, or are they dead, rotting, and a hazard?

If they're in good health, the HOA should be under no obligation to trim them.

They're not in good health. The one that fell was either dead or dying and there are others still there. That's why I used the word "dangers" in the thread title.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 09/17/2017 1:51 AM

I told him to submit a "Landscape Request" form that we have available in our mailhouse. He made a face and said, "Again?" Apparently he has submitted 4 in the last 6 months and all were ignored.

I went and spoke with the chairwoman of the landscape committee to see if what he said was true. I asked if she would look through the processed "Lanscape Requests" going back to last year in order to verify or dispute that the guy actually had submitted requests for tree trimming. She told me, "We don't save those."

Have him submit the requests via certified mail to his landlord and the Association.
This way, he will have proof that the requests were sent.

Have him include in the request that he considers that the land lord and the Association has now been put on notice of the tree conditions and may be held liable if the Association chooses to do nothing.

YOU, as a member, should then encourage the Association to obtain a legal opinion if they do not feel that they can be held responsible for damage to property for failure to address trees that are brought to their attention. Explain that address trees would, as a minimum, have an expert (arborist) evaluate the tree. You should also encourage the Association to establish proper record keeping.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Thanks, Tim, as always.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 09/17/2017 1:51 AM
I spoke to a guy today who lives in my HOA. He and his wife are not homeowners; he is the stepson of the owner and as such we do not consider him to be a renter. During the storm last week a large tree limb over his driveway came crashing down and went right through the windshield of his truck. He said he's going through his insurance to get it fixed - the hood and roof above the glass was also damaged - but he wants to know how he can get the HOA to trim the other tree branches still hanging over his driveway. Some of them appear to be dead. I told him to submit a "Landscape Request" form that we have available in our mailhouse. He made a face and said, "Again?" Apparently he has submitted 4 in the last 6 months and all were ignored.

I went and spoke with the chairwoman of the landscape committee to see if what he said was true. I asked if she would look through the processed "Lanscape Requests" going back to last year in order to verify or dispute that the guy actually had submitted requests for tree trimming. She told me, "We don't save those."

Is this any way to run an airline? Airline??? I am assuming you meant HOA. And would agree NO ... that is no way to run your HOA.


Potentially his insurance will "DUKE" it out with the HOA insurance. Let them duke it out with regards to the recent damage ... LOL ... that is why we all pay and have insurance. As you noted the trees are HOA property ... the HOA should properly address no matter who complains ... WHY .... because anybody can potentially sue a ham sandwich ... and win ... if they are on the right side of the Law. If the HOA trees need to be trimmed to avoid future damage ... just please trim them.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
"Is this any way to run an airline? You bet it is!"

That was a popular slogan National Airlines used way back when. I guess not too many people are old enough to remember it. It was extremely popular and appropriated in various forms for comedic effect for many years.

Fun Fact: One of our homeowners is a retired CPA who was the Controller for National Airlines back in the day. Maybe that brings the slogan back to me more often than it otherwise would National was well known for its advertising campaigns. Their primary focus was the New York/Florida market.
GuyM1 (Ohio)
Posts: 318
Posted:
Totally agree with Tim. A renter has rights too just like the owner. He wasn't doing anything but notifying the the Board of the Issue's...His right as living in the Association. IMO the damage to his car should be paid by the Association for not heeding to his prior request...but if he can't prove he sent anything he's out of luck. Email would have been better. Point to make here is the guy took care of his car damage and didn't tell his Insurance that he sent letters to the Association about the dead limbs, I'm sure the Insurance company may have gone after the HOA. Responsibilities of the Common area's are still the Associations responsibility.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GuyM1 on 10/15/2017 12:50 PM
Totally agree with Tim. A renter has rights too just like the owner. He wasn't doing anything but notifying the the Board of the Issue's...His right as living in the Association. IMO the damage to his car should be paid by the Association for not heeding to his prior request...but if he can't prove he sent anything he's out of luck. Email would have been better. Point to make here is the guy took care of his car damage and didn't tell his Insurance that he sent letters to the Association about the dead limbs, I'm sure the Insurance company may have gone after the HOA. Responsibilities of the Common area's are still the Associations responsibility.

It has degenerated into a he-said/she-said mess. The chair of the landscape committee says she never got any requests for tree pruning/maintenance from either the guy or his stepfather (the owner). Email might work better if anyone on the landscape committee used email.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Potentially does not matter with regards to he said / she said ... what matters is what do your CCR's state with regards to liability??? That is what will hold up in a Court of Law. Essentially if HOA property (a.k.a. Trees) damages personal property (owner vehicle) then potentially the HOA is responsible.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
If he had his personal insurance fix and all he is asking for is the HOA trees to be trimmed ... I personally would not give him the run around and would immediately trim any trees he has an issue with needing trimmed. The alternative might come back and bite you.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I hear that, Janet. Unfortunately the Landscape Committee here is the tail that wags the dog. We've had broken tree limbs, about 7 or 8 of them, dangling over common areas since Hurricane Irma went by on September 10. The landscape committee decided to wait on getting them cut back because "it will be cheaper if we wait a few months".
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
LOL ... The BOD is the dog not the landscape committee tail. Maybe the Dog should bite the Tail. After all the HOA buck will stop with the Dog and not it's tail.

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