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BillyC3 (Kansas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
At turnover, we agreed as a board to hold our board meetings on the 4th Thursday of each month.

Every month, that day rolls around and I send a reminder, and low and behold there's a scheduling conflict. The 22nd doesn't work for Bob, but 21st and 23rd do. 23rd doesn't work for Carol, but she can make the 25th. 25th and 21st are bad for Lisa.

---

This process goes on; email by email for a few days until we can find a day where at least 4 out of 5 of us can make it.

We've failed to comply with our covenants by not publishing meeting dates and locations because it's always at a board-member's house and I have little faith more than a week out when it will actually be. The Annual is coming up and to come into compliance I would like to schedule the next year's out and hand it out at the meeting rather than announcing to every homeowner with agenda every time (the other option per covenants).

How can I help my fellow board members take the meeting date seriously? I want them to cancel any plans they make that conflict with the meetings. More importantly I want them not to make plans that would conflict in the first place. I don't think it's right that the HOA is at the bottom of their priorities.

I've expressed difficulty with this several times, and a couple of them are now pushing to move from monthly to quarterly board meetings! I think its bad enough things wait one month to get decided on. 3 feels insane to me, but I looked into it and our bylaws and state only require one board meeting per year. On the flip side, I absolutely detest writing up the agenda and minutes. So doing that one third as often would make my life more enjoyable.

What's a reasonable board meeting interval?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
We don't have set dates for Board meetings for the exact reason you specify. Scheduling conflicts.

Instead, at the board meeting we will schedule our next three meetings (everyone looking at their calendars).
At the following meeting, we review that schedule and make adjustments as necessary.

We also don't have a set number of meetings.
We base the number of meetings on the amount of work that has to be done.

Our bylaws do specify we meet at least quarterly.

three years ago we met 17 times.
Two years ago we met 11 times.
This year we met 10 times.
Next year, who knows how many times we will meet.
BillyC3 (Kansas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
Do you mail all of your members notice when you schedule a meeting, providing them the time and place of the meeting, and an agenda of the items to be discussed at the meeting?
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillyC3 on 09/16/2017 9:26 PM
At turnover, we agreed as a board to hold our board meetings on the 4th Thursday of each month.

Every month, that day rolls around and I send a reminder, and low and behold there's a scheduling conflict. The 22nd doesn't work for Bob, but 21st and 23rd do. 23rd doesn't work for Carol, but she can make the 25th. 25th and 21st are bad for Lisa.

If this is in your documents ... then that is the SET date for said meetings. If you are on the Board it is YOUR responsibility to meet your obligations which you agreed to at the time you ran for the position. LOL ... When I was on the City Planning Commission which met every third Tuesday of each month ... it was a cold day down below they were going to move the meeting date. If I could not attend the meeting it ran with all others in attendance (LOL ... in the 7 years I was on committee I only missed 2 or 3 meetins)
---

This process goes on; email by email for a few days until we can find a day where at least 4 out of 5 of us can make it. You need to abide by set date ... if quorum not met then items wait until next meeting.

We've failed to comply with our covenants by not publishing meeting dates and locations because it's always at a board-member's house and I have little faith more than a week out when it will actually be. The Annual is coming up and to come into compliance I would like to schedule the next year's out and hand it out at the meeting rather than announcing to every homeowner with agenda every time (the other option per covenants).

How can I help my fellow board members take the meeting date seriously? As I noted above and following your documents (legal contract) I want them to cancel any plans they make that conflict with the meetings. More importantly I want them not to make plans that would conflict in the first place. I don't think it's right that the HOA is at the bottom of their priorities.

I've expressed difficulty with this several times, and a couple of them are now pushing to move from monthly to quarterly board meetings! I think its bad enough things wait one month to get decided on. 3 feels insane to me, but I looked into it and our bylaws and state only require one board meeting per year. On the flip side, I absolutely detest writing up the agenda and minutes. So doing that one third as often would make my life more enjoyable.

What's a reasonable board meeting interval?

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Reasonable BOD meeting would first depend on your governing documents and what they allow. IF the allow quarterly meetings it is then your Board of Directors choice.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Billy, your Bylaws (and perhaps state law) should spell out what kind of notice you have to give the members and whether or not an agenda is also required to be sent out. We have about 8 board meetings a year, sometimes one more, sometimes one less, depending on what business needs to get done. By law, notice of board meetings in FL needs to be given - several differnt ways to do it - at least 48 hours in advance. We usually post notice conspicuously in the community 7 days in advance.

[Except for right now since FL is under a state of emergency due to the hurricane. That will probably last another few weeks, although the board hasn't felt the need for any special meetings.]
GeorgeR8 (Arizona)
Posts: 182
Posted:
At a seminar I attended it was suggested to schedule by the year so I picked first Wednesday of the month. I did poll the board members before I picked Wednesdays. Still have to give 48 hours notice for each meeting and I deliver that with the agenda.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillyC3 on 09/16/2017 10:10 PM
Do you mail all of your members notice when you schedule a meeting, providing them the time and place of the meeting, and an agenda of the items to be discussed at the meeting?

No.

We publish them in a newsletter that is delivered to each door and post them on the Associations website.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillyC3 on 09/16/2017 10:10 PM
Do you mail all of your members notice when you schedule a meeting, providing them the time and place of the meeting, and an agenda of the items to be discussed at the meeting?

Unless your docs or state law requires it, mailing notice of every board meeting seems excessive. We post date and time of board meetings on a message board at the entrance to our community.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
BillyC3 (Kansas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
We don't have a clubhouse, or a sign board to 'post' anything on. We could use a yard sign I suppose.

We don't have a newsletter any more either. It sounds like a nice thing to do of course, but it takes a lot of time to put together, it's not required per bylaws, and we just couldn't keep doing it.

Our bylaws require
1) providing a list of the year's board meeting dates and locations at the annual.
or
2) providing notice and agenda between 10 and 60 days before each meeting.

I would much prefer #1. It seems like less unpaid work, and less likely to attract trouble. But it requires the board members to value their HOA commitment above other commitments. That's what I would like to work towards.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Billy

With a BOD of 5 all you need are 3 to make quorum and conduct business. Of our 5, we rarley get all 5 at a meeting.
BillyC3 (Kansas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
That is correct. I know its legal with as little as 3. I feel like its more responsible however to have everyone there.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillyC3 on 09/17/2017 7:06 AM

I feel like its more responsible however to have everyone there.

It is more responsible.

However, that doesn't always happen and the business of the Association should not be placed on hold until it can.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
How many homes are in your HOA, Billy? Do you have a property manager? Do you have many amenities, e.g., pool, tot lots, walking trials, etc.?

Asnwes might hop us understand whether you need monthly board meetings? I'm also a little confused about the r equipped notice period. Are you sure the 60 days isn't for Members (Owners) Meetings?
BillyC3 (Kansas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
37 homes in total. I feel sometimes like the board is too large and we should get the membership to vote a bylaw update to reduce it.

No property manager.

No amenities other than mowing, fertilizing, trash pickup. Our only common areas are two small strips of land that hold city sidewalks. Even the entry monuments are on homeowner-owned lots, but we are responsible for maintaining the monuments.

Our meetings run about an hour but have been up to two before. The major topics tend to be:
- landscaping issues
- observations of outdoor modifications homeowners did without the required AC approval
- street parking violations
- plans for how to spend funds

Our bylaws do not differentiate between owners and board meetings as regards notice. I've prepared a text searchable doc of our bylaws documents for reference. This one document includes the original declaration and the three subsequent amendments. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kziJyg3DWQNyNlOIDqiI8lLfHFY39TDNCwZTWFQTYaw/edit?usp=sharing

BillyC3 (Kansas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
another topic:
- what the builder broke now / what they're doing or not doing and why aren't they doing it.
BillyC3 (Kansas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
My mistake. You're right 10&60 is for the annual homeowner meeting. 5 days notice is for the boardmember meetings IF they're not in a schedule given out at the annual.

I'd still rather give the schedule out once per year than send out notices to every homeowner with the agenda before every board meeting!
MichaelH25 (Kansas)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I'm an HOA President in Kansas. Our bylaws ( in compliance with applicable state laws) require the board to advise the homeowners within he HOA of any meeting a minimum of 10 days prior to any meeting. Currently, we post a large banner at the entrances to our neighborhood. We have established a new website for our HOA. Currently, we have all of the documents loaded, and are in the process of getting the calendar and newsletter loaded with applicable data. This website will be the primary means of communication. I hesitate to use mailings, simply because its a cost we shouldn't have to pay for, when we have all of the information on the web site. Granted, there are many older neighbors within our HOA who might not use email/web pages. I have yet to verify this though.

Our board meetings are usually held 5-7 days prior to any actual HOA meeting. This is usually our opportunity to go over what will be discussed during the actual HOA meeting, in order to validate the agenda, as well as help keeping the meeting to an hour, as best as we can. Again, the biggest issue I hear is a lack of communication amongst HOAs. The board is comprised of volunteers who, should be involved because they are concerned for the well being of the HOA, not to advance a personal agenda. If this is the case, being on the board is NOT the place for them to be!
BillyC3 (Kansas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
Michael, Are you in the KC area?

I'd love to meetup with other HOA folks to exchange ideas and help each other out.

My understanding was that at a baseline all homeowners were entitled by law to written communication by mail or delivered to their door. They could opt to receive communication via phone, text, email, website at their discretion, but we could not presume their willingness to receive via alternate methods.

I got the 5 day notice of board meetings from our bylaws. Do you think ours is out of compliance with the state, or your bylaws are just more strict in what they require of the board?

Can you share a picture of your banner? I have the impression from our bylaws that our board meetings should be readily attend-able by any and every resident without them having to ask beforehand where it's location will be. We've been hosting in the personal homes of our board members, and it rotates, so one idea I had was to post a sign at our entry for a week prior, and another in the front yard of the house hosting the meeting the day of the meeting. I have a feeling the other board members are going to balk at that idea. None of us partiularly want to encourage a crowd of people into our homes and have them feeling like they have to give us their two cents.

That's not to say we have angry homeowners. I'd say it's 50% strongly in favor, 45% indifferent, 5% upset here. But the 'louder' we announce a board meeting, I think we would actually encourage complaints that should be made via the proper channels.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillyC3 on 09/17/2017 8:36 AM
37 homes in total. I feel sometimes like the board is too large and we should get the membership to vote a bylaw update to reduce it.

No property manager.

No amenities other than mowing, fertilizing, trash pickup. Our only common areas are two small strips of land that hold city sidewalks. Even the entry monuments are on homeowner-owned lots, but we are responsible for maintaining the monuments. Similar to my HOA's except without the "entry monuments". My last HOA had two small common area parks to maintain.

Our meetings run about an hour but have been up to two before. The major topics tend to be:
- landscaping issues Pretty much all we had to approve for common area and homes.
- observations of outdoor modifications homeowners did without the required AC approval Same as ours, but would add we had trash receptacle issues to address.
- street parking violations LOL ... Does your HOA own and maintain the streets??? Mine did not ... so even though street parking (put in by developer) was in our documents potentially we could not regulate because we did not own and pay HOA assessments to regulate the streets.

Kansas HOA Statute states in your definitions:
(e) "Common elements" means those portions of the property not owned individually by unit owners, but in which an indivisible interest is held by all unit owners, generally including the grounds, parking areas and recreational facilities.

Again ... Does your HOA own and pay assessments to maintain the streets OR are they owned and maintained by your Local Government?

- plans for how to spend funds Yes that is usual and can sometimes be a sore spot. In my last HOA a few owners thought they should be able to use HOA money to throw parties for themselves. They found out they better have deep pockets to pay for their BS.

Our bylaws do not differentiate between owners and board meetings as regards notice. I've prepared a text searchable doc of our bylaws documents for reference. This one document includes the original declaration and the three subsequent amendments. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kziJyg3DWQNyNlOIDqiI8lLfHFY39TDNCwZTWFQTYaw/edit?usp=sharing



I agree you potentially have too many chiefs (a.k.a. Board Members). My last HOA was 40 units and we had three BOD members. My new HOA is smaller with same number. Potentially if you have too many chiefs in a small HOA everyone gets tired of serving because more have to potentially serve longer ... in a small HOA this leads to apathy.
BillyC3 (Kansas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
We do not own or maintain the street. It is not a common area. Our bylaws contain restrictions on the behavior of owners, residents, and their guests. These restrictions are not limited to the common areas.

It is not illegal to park on the street.

Our covenants prohibit homeowners and their guests from parking overnight on the street.

People from adjacent neighborhoods with no connection to us would be entirely able to park on our streets.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Here’s one person’s opinion on your questions and concerns (much of what’s already been said is good)

If people keep on bailing out when board meetings are scheduled, it’s time for a come to Jesus meeting. They need to understand that THEY volunteered for the board and therefore they must make the time to do the job. Except for February, there are at least 30 days to work with, so if the 4th Thursday is no longer convenient, select another date.
There will never be a time that works 100% for everyone 100% of the time, so do the best you can. Once that date is set, that’s the date – tell the other board members they need to clear their schedules accordingly and if they can’t they need to reconsider if they really want the job - everytime you have to cancel a meeting for lack of quorum means more work at the next one. Sooner or later, that will catch up and you'll end up with a mess.

A quarterly meeting is fine – in fact, it may be helpful to establish a calendar listing the quarterly meetings and annual meeting and send that to everyone once a year. You might also consider setting up a website – it doesn’t have to be fancy, but someone needs to update it from time to time and if you have quarterly meetings anyway, you can do that once a year and be done with it. If you and/or your colleagues don’t have time to do it, hire someone and negotiate a fee – maybe find a responsible student who will do it for a little money and class credit (make sure you look at what’s to be posted before it goes up)

Since people can and do forget, it may be helpful to send an email blast a week before the meeting reminding everyone quarterly meetings and the annual meeting are approaching – when the agenda is set, put it in the message.
Regarding the agenda, you can set up a basic format once and then tailor it to add specific subjects. Give your colleagues a deadline if they want to add specific topics – after the deadline, set your agenda and don’t add anything else until the next meeting.

Our association has monthly board meetings – can’t remember if that’s mandated in our Bylaws, but in my opinion the larger the community and the more stuff the Association is responsible, the more important it becomes to meet at least monthly. However, a well-organized board may be able to get away with every other month or even quarterly meetings, especially if you have a property manager to handle day to day stuff. If you don’t have a lot in the way of common area, you may not need a property manager – it’s a matter of deciding what has to be done and then determining who will do it.

A five-member board for a 37 home community doesn’t seem excessive to me – again it’s not so much about the size as it is the willingness of the board members to do the job. You said the association is responsible for mowing, fertilizing and trash pickup – negotiate those contracts once a year and let the contractors do their job, addressing issues as they come up. You didn’t say what it takes to maintain the monuments, but could you get away with an annual inspection and deal with repairs as they arise? I would think that doesn’t have to be discussed at every meeting.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillyC3 on 09/19/2017 7:00 AM
We do not own or maintain the street. It is not a common area. Our bylaws contain restrictions on the behavior of owners, residents, and their guests. These restrictions are not limited to the common areas.

It is not illegal to park on the street.

Our covenants prohibit homeowners and their guests from parking overnight on the street.

People from adjacent neighborhoods with no connection to us would be entirely able to park on our streets.


I hope then your HOA is not fining, sending to collection, or foreclosing for street parking. LOL ... in my last HOA initially the Developer was trying to push this issue against a neighbor. When I showed him the State Statute with regards to the definition of common interest community and because we all were already having to file a lawsuit ... I told him I would add that to the lawsuit, if he did not drop the issue. Your State Law definition states:

(f) "Common interest community" means real estate described in a declaration with respect to which a person, by virtue of the person's ownership of a unit, is obligated to pay for a share of real estate taxes, insurance premiums, maintenance, or improvement of, or services or other expenses related to, common elements, other units, or other real estate described in that declaration. The term does not include an arrangement described in K.S.A. 2012 Supp. 58-4607, and amendments thereto. For purposes of this paragraph, ownership of a unit does not include holding a leasehold interest.

YEP ... essentially if you do not per your CCR's pay a share of maintaining said property ... it is not part of your Common Interest Community and therefore is not part of any property you can regulate. As I also told developer if we add this to the lawsuit we will include the City, then I will throw them out there and say "OK ... defend our rights as CITIZENS regarding the use of PUBLIC PROPERTY." Of course I had conversations with the then Mayor and City Attorney prior ... and they both stated they would have to protect the Citizen's rights. I told them then you better have a conversation with the Developer. I do not know if the City called the Developer or if the Developer called the City to verify ... but the isssue was dropped. It was one less thing we had to add to our lawsuit.

Also, Nevada had an issue a few years back where HOA's were fining and foreclosing homes due to street parking. Their State Legislators passed a law stating that if the HOA does not own and maintain the streets ... they cannot regulate the "public streets". However, that does not mean that Owners can violate your local government ordinances. Most local governments do not allow the parking of trailers on the street over X number of hours, do not allow parking junk/unlicensed vehicles, do not allow vehicles to be parked in one spot more than X days, etc. So if you have an issue you can call your local government or police non-emergency to have the issue addressed.
BillyC3 (Kansas)
Posts: 40
Posted:
Janet, you have strayed far off topic to this thread. See subject.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillyC3 on 09/19/2017 7:43 PM
Janet, you have strayed far off topic to this thread. See subject.


LOL ... I responded and even copied your POST Billy ... I definately DID NOT stray off topic. If anyone strayed ... you need to look in the mirror.

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