My HOA & the property management company help please

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Hi ,first time writing on here ,I have been trying read on here to help me figure out some solutions .
Okay I will start and say when we moved into our current home we only new we had an property management company ,but did not know anything else .
I read all the CC&R's but they do not mention any HOA things as to how many members on the board how long they have these positions ,how they get these positions .etc..

I guess by chance I became invited to join Next Door which is like Face Book but only for subdivisions .
Anyway I thought it was a good chance to ask some questions .
Well I did and found out that there was 1 person on the board but she really did not want anyone to know her name or anything about her .
I then along with another owner got a meeting together ( now unknown to me she invited the current property manager to said meeting )
The next meeting ( which I could not attend due to surgery ) is where he just put people on the board ( no vote other than all in favor say I ) which I think is wrong .
After I got better I tried to get more stuff taken care of namely .I think we should start looking at new companies ( he has been the one and only since 98 ) Then I called his company and asked to speak to the owner ,I wanted answers that no one is giving me .Well I did manage to talk to the owner but he said he did not know off hand and would get back to me that was on 8/31/17 and then I find out that it cause some major blow up and the guy who is in charge of our subdivision was mad .
I am still not happy that I have to pay a company which does not respond to easy questions .

I feel like moving because its a mess and they do want ever they want with out regard to how it probably should be done .

I mean I don't think its wrong for me to know how long of a contract we have with them and when it started and who has been renewing ?

I also don't like the fact that most of the board ( use to be 5 now 3 ) think they can just stay on with out any votes because they were picked by the property management guy .
There are a lot of major issues which I do tell said board members which they do not respond back even though I left them email and phone number .
Can anyone on here help me I am at witts end
Thank you

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LoriF3 on 09/15/2017 4:42 AM

The next meeting ( which I could not attend due to surgery ) is where he just put people on the board ( no vote other than all in favor say I ) which I think is wrong .

You might think it is wrong. However, that is the typical process when filling vacancies.
This process is normally supported by applicable corporate statutes and the Associations governing documents.

Hence, what you say was done was the correct way to do it.

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 09/15/2017 8:03 AM

Posted By LoriF3 on 09/15/2017 4:42 AM

The next meeting ( which I could not attend due to surgery ) is where he just put people on the board ( no vote other than all in favor say I ) which I think is wrong .

You might think it is wrong. However, that is the typical process when filling vacancies.
This process is normally supported by applicable corporate statutes and the Associations governing documents.

Hence, what you say was done was the correct way to do it.

Well I spoke with a person at a different property management company when I told the person how the current property management company did it this way the person said that was not the correct way .They stated that there must be a quorum and if not enough to make quorum then you reschedule and then you only need 1/2 of what you needed before .
They also said that votes were to be on a ballot and marked just like you do for voting in an election .

Not the property manager just saying okay you and you and you are it to be on the board . I do not trust this company doing web searches on said company and owner the owner had been a realtor but was forced out due to fraud .
This company says we have a contract but no one knows anything about it and when calling said company and asking they are vague and then call and wonder why people need to know such things .
Questions like for at least 3 years there was only 1 person on the board but no one knew that and no one knew who it was till I started asking .
If we have a contract who has been renewing them and that can't be legal .

The person who is suppose to oversea our place is never available ,
all this cannot be legal and correct .
I do see why people just give up and never try to get things done .

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Lori,
I would start by requesting copies of the Bylaws. These are usually the document which addressess the HOA and how this organization conducts business. If the Developer is still in control and appoints Board members there is little than can be done until such time and the Developer turns over control to the homeowners.

If your request for a copy of the Bylaws is not honored. Then if your HOA is incorporated then go to the secretary of state web site and enter the HOA name to obtain a copy of the Bylaws submitted at the time the HOA was incorporated.

The property manager has no authority to appoint members to the Board. Education about all of the association's the governing documents is necessary to take control and eliminate all of the unacceptable acts you listed.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Lori,

What you are describing is a general membership meeting.

However, I expect that those at the meeting you were unable to attend felt it was a Board meeting. If I recall, you specified that only one person was serving as Director at the time.

Expecting that your Association is registered as a nonprofit corporation (most are but check to be sure), I refer you to "North Carolina Nonprofit Corporation Act, specifically G.S. § 55A-8-11 which says (in part):

Unless the articles of incorporation or bylaws provide otherwise, and except as
provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, if a vacancy occurs on a board of directors, including, without limitation, a vacancy resulting from an increase in the number of directors or from the failure by the members to elect the full authorized number of directors, the vacancy may be filled:

(2)By the board of directors; or
(3)If the directors remaining in the office constitute fewer than a quorum of the board, by the affirmative vote of a majority of all the directors, or by the sole director, remaining in office

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RogerB on 09/15/2017 9:21 AM
Lori,
I would start by requesting copies of the Bylaws. These are usually the document which addressess the HOA and how this organization conducts business. If the Developer is still in control and appoints Board members there is little than can be done until such time and the Developer turns over control to the homeowners.

If your request for a copy of the Bylaws is not honored. Then if your HOA is incorporated then go to the secretary of state web site and enter the HOA name to obtain a copy of the Bylaws submitted at the time the HOA was incorporated.

The property manager has no authority to appoint members to the Board. Education about all of the association's the governing documents is necessary to take control and eliminate all of the unacceptable acts you listed.

Thank you I will inquire about the by laws .The subdivision is about 20 years old so I don't think the builders are in charge any more .( The builders is a whole new can of worms ) .I am not sure if we are incorporated or not I will also ask about this .

Thank you

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

I have sent out a request for these bylaws as I don't know if we even have them .I do know that the property management has been lax .
I also have tried to reach them and the current president of the hoa to get information as to if we are in a contract and if so how long is it and who has been renewing it .

I have no answers and no one has gave me answers even though I have asked multiple questions .
I feel if I must pay this company they ought to give me some answers not just blow up behind my back to the ones who are on the hoa .

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

LoriF3, definitely start with your Bylaws. The Bylaws should spell out how many directors there are (board members), when elections should be, etc. The property manager works for the board/association. No property manager should be appointing board members.

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Okay after digging through all the papers we were given when we moved in I found them .Now the problem no one is following them .So now what ?Do I stir more of the pot ? Oh and is your board ( the president which was chosen by the property manager ) vice president who is a hot head ( trust me I put up a post on next door about how to reach the others on the board and he blew up at me ) the secretary who is the only one willing to speak with me and the others .Oh and I guess I did not mention that we all live in the subdivision but they have 2 separate sections with 2 separate hoa's .( we did not even know this when we moved in not till we walked the area and started seeing for section 2 only .

After doing digging at our state secretary web site I see we are listed as non profit hoa .

Biggest problem is how I can find out how long this contract is with our property management place and how I can get them to try some one new ?

Oh also the secretary really wants to put a cap on how many rental house we have in here can this be done ?

Thanks I am trying to just get some answers as again never been in an hoa before and kind of wish I could get out of it

PainintheA
Posts: 43

Posted:

You CAN get out.

Sell and move to a NON 'deed restricted' home.

Next time:

CAVEAT EMPTOR

or

Forget about the HOA and simply live your life until you need to relocate.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LoriF3 on 09/15/2017 12:59 PM

Biggest problem is how I can find out how long this contract is with our property management place and how I can get them to try some one new ?

Gather support, get yourself elected or appointed to the Board and be part of the decision.

As a simple member, you are likely not going to get them to change MC.

As a board member, you might.

Board decisions are made by majority vote. Therefore, if those who serve with you don't agree with you, there still will be no change.

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 09/15/2017 6:09 PM

Posted By LoriF3 on 09/15/2017 12:59 PM

Biggest problem is how I can find out how long this contract is with our property management place and how I can get them to try some one new ?

Gather support, get yourself elected or appointed to the Board and be part of the decision.

As a simple member, you are likely not going to get them to change MC.

As a board member, you might.

Board decisions are made by majority vote. Therefore, if those who serve with you don't agree with you, there still will be no change.

Thank you I am doing what I can I know there are only 3 board members and I know 1 would be with me the other 2 well how can I know when I cannot reach them even though I have tried ?

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LoriF3 on 09/15/2017 12:59 PM
Okay after digging through all the papers we were given when we moved in I found them. Now the problem no one is following them. So now what ? If you have an issue with items not being followed you can choose to pursue compliance. Do I stir more of the pot? Again, depends on how important items are to your and your family? Oh and is your board (the president which was chosen by the property manager ) vice president who is a hot head ( trust me I put up a post on next door about how to reach the others on the board and he blew up at me ), the secretary who is the only one willing to speak with me and the others. Oh and I guess I did not mention that we all live in the subdivision but they have 2 separate sections with 2 separate hoa's.( we did not even know this when we moved in not till we walked the area and started seeing for section 2 only). ??? When you state two separate HOA's is only ONE attached to your property title or are you under an Umbrella HOA with two sub-HOA's under?

After doing digging at our state secretary web site I see we are listed as non profit hoa . Most HOA's have this status.

Biggest problem is how I can find out how long this contract is with our property management place and how I can get them to try some one new ? You request a copy of the Property Management Contract to find out how long the contract is in place. If you want them to try someone new you need to get most other homeowners on your side approaching your Board with your request. If they do not take up the majority of owners concerns and requests then you need to replace them at your next annual election with other like minded individuals.

Oh also the secretary really wants to put a cap on how many rental house we have in here can this be done ? Potentially YEP ... if current CCR's allow OR if the CCR's are changed in the future via majority vote of homeowner's who agree.

Thanks I am trying to just get some answers as again never been in an hoa before and kind of wish I could get out of it. Keep in mind HOA's have their advantages and disadvantages. Sure ... one disadvantage is you will have a community Board of Directors running the show, but keep in mind YOU and your fellow homeowners are the individuals who have placed them in their positions of power. YOU and your fellow owners have made your bed whether via properly attending meetings and casting votes ... OR ... via apathy where nobody cares and leaves their HOA to a few. You potentially have two choices ... continue with apathy (I don't care attitude) or get off your butts and Make a Difference!

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Lori, if you were in Florida I could either answer a lot of your questions or point you in the right direction to find answers to your questions. Generally, no matter what state you're in, an owner has an almost absolute right to see whatever contracts the association is a party to. How to get access to those, however, and other information about your association varies according to your own state laws and governing documents (CCRs, Bylaws, Articles of Incorporation, etc.) I don't know the first thing about HOA laws in North Carolina, unfortunately, so it's hard for me offer suggestions.

I think it's a good thing that you are willing to learn the ropes and find out what your association is doing, who is doing it, and why. I would say, don't get discouraged, ask as many questions as you can think of, and don't give up until you get some answers. It could be a lot of work. Evaluate your community and try to gauge how many other owners might share your concerns and be willing to get involved. If you think changes are needed, you're going to need their help and support.

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 09/15/2017 6:09 PM

Posted By LoriF3 on 09/15/2017 12:59 PM

Biggest problem is how I can find out how long this contract is with our property management place and how I can get them to try some one new ?

Gather support, get yourself elected or appointed to the Board and be part of the decision.

As a simple member, you are likely not going to get them to change MC.

As a board member, you might.

Board decisions are made by majority vote. Therefore, if those who serve with you don't agree with you, there still will be no change.

There are 3 current members on the hoa I believe 2 volunteered and 1 was placed there by the PMC ( property management company ) now I have been in talks with the one volunteer she is very helpful .The president placed there by the pmc is hard to reach ,I have emailed her and asked to have 5 minutes I have left my phone number is said email told her she could even text me .Nothing yesterday she did respond but I was to either just drop off the papers or find her on her bike .I do not want to just drop off papers as I want to go over them a little bit . The 2nd person who is the vice prez ,well he is a hot head . He is more interested in mail box color then our property management doing nothing for us .I have asked the pmc for contract details I have asked for other things which they won't give .I am mad because he wants my money but won't in turn answer any questions .Oh and the company owner got his real estate license taken away for money fraud .Yet I cannot get anyone to pay attention that we need a new company .Short of me going door to door by myself I am not sure how to get this done .

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JanetB2 on 09/16/2017 9:47 PM

Posted By LoriF3 on 09/15/2017 12:59 PM
Okay after digging through all the papers we were given when we moved in I found them. Now the problem no one is following them. So now what ? If you have an issue with items not being followed you can choose to pursue compliance. Do I stir more of the pot? Again, depends on how important items are to your and your family? Oh and is your board (the president which was chosen by the property manager ) vice president who is a hot head ( trust me I put up a post on next door about how to reach the others on the board and he blew up at me ), the secretary who is the only one willing to speak with me and the others. Oh and I guess I did not mention that we all live in the subdivision but they have 2 separate sections with 2 separate hoa's.( we did not even know this when we moved in not till we walked the area and started seeing for section 2 only). ??? When you state two separate HOA's is only ONE attached to your property title or are you under an Umbrella HOA with two sub-HOA's under?

After doing digging at our state secretary web site I see we are listed as non profit hoa . Most HOA's have this status.

Biggest problem is how I can find out how long this contract is with our property management place and how I can get them to try some one new ? You request a copy of the Property Management Contract to find out how long the contract is in place. If you want them to try someone new you need to get most other homeowners on your side approaching your Board with your request. If they do not take up the majority of owners concerns and requests then you need to replace them at your next annual election with other like minded individuals.

Oh also the secretary really wants to put a cap on how many rental house we have in here can this be done ? Potentially YEP ... if current CCR's allow OR if the CCR's are changed in the future via majority vote of homeowner's who agree.

Thanks I am trying to just get some answers as again never been in an hoa before and kind of wish I could get out of it. Keep in mind HOA's have their advantages and disadvantages. Sure ... one disadvantage is you will have a community Board of Directors running the show, but keep in mind YOU and your fellow homeowners are the individuals who have placed them in their positions of power. YOU and your fellow owners have made your bed whether via properly attending meetings and casting votes ... OR ... via apathy where nobody cares and leaves their HOA to a few. You potentially have two choices ... continue with apathy (I don't care attitude) or get off your butts and Make a Difference!

Now you mention most of the home owners ,now the other section of our subdivision use to have the same guy but their president kicked him to the curb with a 30 day notice .She said we could do the same .
Like I mentioned there used to be 5 members on the hoa 2 quit 3 are left 1 is for it ( I think has not said she wasn't .If I could get 1 of the other 2 I think it could be done its just that the president ( placed as such by current property management company ) she is hard to reach .I in an email left my info but only know hers but I am not sure its private ) I feel like I am banging my head against a wall

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LoriF3 on 09/17/2017 6:16 AM
Now you mention most of the home owners ,now the other section of our subdivision use to have the same guy but their president kicked him to the curb with a 30 day notice .

Please realize that HOA presidents don't have the power to do that on their own. The Board of Directors, acting as a whole, normally votes on those things. The president can come up with the idea, maybe it's actually a good idea, and convince the other directors it's a good idea. But the president cannot cancel a contract on her own. It takes a vote of the board.

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

See I am confused ( I have never been in any HOA ever before ) I don't know is this Board of directors separate from the ones on the HOA ?

All I can say is we have been here 3 years .I asked on a forum for neighbors about who was on the HOA .No one knew eventually myself with another person got a meeting together .

Then by the second meeting ( I could not go as I had to have major surgery 3 days before meeting was not up to going )
There the PM picked a president and placed 4 others with her.

Now there are only 3 as 2 dropped out .

The PM company is a joke and I want them gone as do several other home owners I know .

So I have no idea what you mean by board of directors

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LoriF3 on 09/17/2017 12:41 PM
So I have no idea what you mean by board of directors

That's not in your bylaws? I'm sure it's in your state statutes since every corporation (assuming your HOA is incorporated) must be governed by Directors who sit as a board.

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 09/17/2017 1:03 PM

Posted By LoriF3 on 09/17/2017 12:41 PM
So I have no idea what you mean by board of directors

That's not in your bylaws? I'm sure it's in your state statutes since every corporation (assuming your HOA is incorporated) must be governed by Directors who sit as a board.

You know I looked it up since I scanned all those papers in to the computer BUT like I said I do not think we have any one .

To be real honest the president selected to this from our crummy property management company a vice president I guess volunteered and a secretary ( the only one whom is reachable ) The other 2 the president expects me to try and catch her as she is out bike riding never responds hardly to any of my emails .I do not know how else to reach her other than knock on her door .I left her with every way to reach me and she hardly can be bothered .The Vice president is a hot head he hates if I ask questions and hates I called him out on not answering questions .The secretary is reachable and we have been in touch a lot .I am trying to help her with things .

The HOA is incorporated I did look up on the state government site

They ( the 3 ) pretty much think the Property manager does not like to be bothered you cannot reach him ( voice mail does not return calls email they also do not get returned )

Our subdivision is together but separate that side their president use to have the same property management company did get rid of them by giving them a letter and 30 day notice .She informed me we could do the same if I could get at least 2 of the 3 to agree .I have 1 the other 2 well I cannot get a hold of them .

There are many other people than just me who thinks they ( PMC ) is doing nothing .

First the company hours are very short ,if you do call the secretary knows nothing and gives you other numbers to call .
I called got the owner he said he would look into it and get back to me but he did not instead I find out from the secretary of the HOA told me the ** hit the fan and was complaining about my call .
I am very mad to say the least I pay the money but the company is not doing what they should be doing .
No one can answer simple questions
Are we in a contract ?
If yes to above when did it start and when does it end ?
Who has been renewing this contract ?

I am fed up and ready to move because this place is going down hill fast .

The PMC does not seem to care that we have a vacant home which is getting worse every month ( grass and basic car and maintenance )
That we had a rental which had a fire and that is a mess also .( may have been drug related not sure but very possible .

Large bust of weed ie you know pot just a day or so ago
Lots of violations ( car is broken down in drive way etc...)

We do have cops one county and one state if you can believe that

Its a mess and I am trying to help get it straight but I am basically ready to just let them get run down and get out before it sinks

I don't know what else to do .

I do not understand why the President and vice are not willing to be reachable ( the supposed email they made the secretary is saying they are locked out and can't get in ) I do not buy that because there are ways to get in because I have had to do it .
Anyway Anything I can have as to help I will try it

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Until you learn something about your own governing documents w you'll be running around in circles, Lori. You must find & read your bylaws, which will tell you how many directors there SHOULD be on your HOA's board of directors. Also how long they serve, how often heir meeting must be held.

You also need to send a request by US mail--return receipt requested-- to the Owner of the management company and politely demand a copy of the management contract with your HOA. They can charge you for it if they want. It would be very rare that the contract lets the property manager "pick" the members of the Board. The "property managers" who manage HOAs don't usually have a real estate license or just a real estate license--they have certificates (one hopes) to be certified property managers who have passed tests about HOAs. They are not like proety managers of rentals.

Since you aren't on the board of directors, you have no power to change management companies, only a majority of the Board as a whole voting at a meeting can change companies.

One way your CC&Rs CA help you is that at the cry beginning of them, there should be a long list of words and what their definitions are. But in your case, Lori, it almost seems like you and 4-5 others should chip in together to hire an HOA attorney to explain your rights to you. NOT a real estate attorney.

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Thank you I have read the bylaws but I do not understand everything I am reading .

I did see about meeting but they are not following that I do know that much

I also found out the owner of the management company got his real estate license revoked for mishandling money and other stuff .I did try to find more info but since its been 13 years I could not locate the papers that were mentioned .

Thank you I will try and get a letter out and see if I can find a hoa attorney

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Lori, check with your state's corporation registry, usually maintained by the state's Secretary of State. Corporations must file annual reports that disclose who the directors are. Together, they would be your board of directors.

How old is the HOA where you live?
How many homes are in it?

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

I went to the department of secretary of state .I found our subdivision and printed the page .

It says status currently active
annual report not applicable
citizenship domestic
date formed 7/9/1998
registered agent then it shows the property management association

There was a second page I found it says this

Status currently active
Annual report status ( this is blank)
citizenship domestic
registered agent is a law office name

So since I said we have to separate HOA's I looked theirs up to compare

Status current -active
annual report status current

So why is 2 's current active and ours says not applicable ?

I believe the secretary for the hoa said since 1998

and there are 177 homes on this side

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LoriF3 on 09/18/2017 4:26 AM

So why is 2 's current active and ours says not applicable ?

You won't know for sure until you call and ask.

My guess, the registration lapsed.
The Association waited to long to reactivate.
Therefore, recently (within the last year) recreated the corporation.

CarlJ2 (Texas)
Posts: 194

Posted:

I would think that the annual report is blank because nobody did one, perhaps?

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Okay I called he said that there was no real need to fill the annual report status

I asked him about Board of Directors he gave me 3 names but said that this was filled
in 1998 so he said he could not know any more about it .

I did not recognize the names so this is something else I have to look into

PainintheA
Posts: 43

Posted:

Thank you I have read the bylaws but I do not understand everything I am reading .

The crux of the matter.

No amount of discussion will change this.

82.5% on the meter

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Okay I got my letter to the PMC in the mail today with return receipt requested hope they do now what they should have done .

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Okay I got my letter to the PMC in the mail today with return receipt requested hope they do now what they should have done .

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LoriF3 on 09/18/2017 5:44 AM
Okay I called he said that there was no real need to fill the annual report status

I asked him about Board of Directors he gave me 3 names but said that this was filled
in 1998 so he said he could not know any more about it .

I did not recognize the names so this is something else I have to look into

Tells me that annual reports have not been filed since 1998 (as that is all the annual report is - telling the State who is on the Board and who the registered agent is).

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

I have made a post on my forum for the community .I told them this is what I found and asking if anyone knows anything .

There were 3 guys names listed the next document showed that one of the 3 resigned .There was nothing but 1 last document showing that our PMC was registering as a address and it had a man listed as the president of the subdivision .
I do not know this man and since its been 9 years he may or may not live here .Which also tells me the PMC has been lax on sending in amendments ( which the man at the Secretary of state said should be done on a routine bases .

So now I have to find out the 2 other people listed as board of directors who are they and how do we know anything about them ? The document they are listed on is from 1998

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Lori, I assume the board of directors hired the current property mgmt. company. And someone on the Board pays the Prp. mgmt company. those are the names you want--the board of directors members who hire your contractors and sign the checks.

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 09/18/2017 11:12 AM
Lori, I assume the board of directors hired the current property mgmt. company. And someone on the Board pays the Prp. mgmt company. those are the names you want--the board of directors members who hire your contractors and sign the checks.

This is the big mystery I just mailed off a registered letter to the PMC .I have been asking for a while about this "contract " .I placed it that way because our subdivision though together is divided into 2 different sections with 2 different hoa's .Now the second small section their hoa president spoke with me about it said they had them for awhile then all she did was give them a 30 day notice and went with a new place .
I mentioned this to 1 of the 3 of our hoa and they thought we were under a contract .I called and asked the secretary ( who I thought could just look up a file with our name and tell me ( the whole office is only about 3 or 4 people ) .She told me no you must speak to the owner .I said fine she gave me a cell number .He never answered my question in fact kept asking why did I need to know .I said because I have to send you a payment for services so I feel I have a right to know .
I ask the 3 on the hoa and I get I 'll ask at the next meeting .Have no idea when their meeting is .Wonder why they don't know and why they don't seem to care .

The one who has been the most reachable still thinks I a, reading the bylaws wrong .
Googling for an answer I get there is to be a bod if you are non profit which we are .
Again we do not receive monthly statements and the office hours are ridiculous
8:30-4:30 Mon ,Tues and Thurs 8:30-12 Wed and Friday I think

Current Hoa is hard to be reached and if you keep bugging the one flies off at you the other one is nice but not in charge the one in charge refuses to just come meet me wants me to just drop things off at her house or chase after her on her bike

The president of section 2 said I needed a majority of the hoa to send him his walking papers and someone else thinks if I get enough home owners names I could maybe do it our self .

Since we never see him on site except when he schedules meetings and he never responds to emails or phone calls this and the fact the owner lost his realtor license makes me think they are up to no good .

The new company I want meets with you you can drop in any time or call any time and they see your property 2 -3 or more times a month .Plus monthly emails etc....

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Say, Lori--many, many, many HOAs have prop. mgrs a few-to-several hours a week. It's about how much you're willing to pay.

I rented in an HOA when're the prop. mgr. (PM) was on the premises 12 hours a week and at other accounts of hers at other hours. Whre I am now we have a full-time PM, who has a full-time asst. It's because we're a complicated large urban high rise.

Your language continues to be confusing. The Owners who are members of the Board of Directors are not called "the HOA." The HOA is your actual homeowners Association; it's governed by the Board of directors. This board is elected by Owners.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Lori

Like it or not, the BOD hires and fires the MC. You can wish and demand all you want but it is their job.

PainintheA
Posts: 43

Posted:

meter now at 89.3%

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 09/18/2017 1:07 PM
Lori

Like it or not, the BOD hires and fires the MC. You can wish and demand all you want but it is their job.

I am still at the I do not know that we have a Board of directors one of the people on the hoa thinks we do not have one and we do not need one because so much time has now passed

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PainintheA on 09/18/2017 1:10 PM
meter now at 89.3%

Not sure why you keep popping in since you do not seem helpful

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Lori, you wrote: "I do not know that we have a Board of directors one of the people on the hoa thinks we do not have one and we do not need one because so much time has now passed."

Lori, Lori: What does "one of the people on the hoa" mean??

Sorry, I hafta say this is my last try to grasp your language. I think i wrote somewhere, you & 2-3 other owners need to chip in and hire a HOA attorney to get your thinking straightened out.

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Okay I will try again I moved in to the subdivision 3 years ago .At that time we were given a lot of papers .Having just moved I did not bother to look into them until about a year later .
At at that time I asked who was the president of our home owner association no one knew finally a lady replied that she was .
I let it go for a little but but some thing happened and I decided to try and have a meeting of other owners to discuss some thing which had been going on .

Well I was planning on a meeting with just home owners but the woman who was helping get things together invited the property manager .
Now we have lived here now about a year and a half
This would be the first time we ever met him or the president
After this meeting they scheduled another meeting about a month later .
Due to unforeseen circumstances I was unable to go to this meeting .
At this meeting even though they did not have a quorum they selected people for the home owners association ,the property manager chose someone to be the president.
Now this current president and vice president and a secretary is all that is left on this home owners association .
The president and vice president are not very reachable tried to send emails and hardly get returned have asked to speak to the president to get some things figured out all with no response ,the secretary is the only one I can actually get a hold of ,she is the one who thinks we do not have a board of directors .I do know there used to be one per paperwork I found on the secretary of states web site .Bylaws mention that there is to be a director of 3 for the first year dated 1998 after 1 year there was suppose to be 5 .I found no record of 5 but did see one of the three resigned .
The current property management company has complaints all over the place and even a local tv station was called in to investigate .He lost a realtor license in 2001 or 2004 do not recall which one but also per the tv station web site that they still have some open complaints on him .

I have tried to google about hoa attorneys but I can't seem to figure out who might do this .

I hope this explains what I am going through and do see why others here have basically gave up and moved ,because nothing is getting done .
Two abandoned properties numerous cars parking anyway they want on sidewalks on the grass just to name a few things .He never comes through he does not reply to phone or emails .
This is my last shot at trying to get things changed

BancsS
Posts: 269

Posted:

LoriF3,
It seems to me that you have a limited knowledge of HOA's and the fundamentals of HOA governance. I was in your shoes 10 years ago when I built a new home in an HOA. But as events transpired that forced me to learn more than what I had understood. So....

Do you understand the basics of HOA documents? There are typically 3 sets of documents, the covenants, the bylaws, and rules and regulations. The covenants are typically architectural things like size of the home, setbacks, garages, sheds, fences, etc. Bylaws are the associations laws that govern the HOA. These are things like election of directors, how many, officer positions, assessments, and payment of assessesments , things like that. Rules address things like when garbage can be placed at the curb, parking, mowing the grass, etc.

Do you understand the dynamics of HOA governance?Some HOAs are self managed and others are managed by a property manager. The property manager works for the HOA at the direction of The Board of Drectors not the other way around.

Read all of your documents very carefully. Research the basics of HOA laws in your state. Certainly come to this forum and ask questions but I think if you get a better grasp of HOA fundamentals your questions here will make more sense and some posters will be able to help you. There is a wealth of knowledge here.

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BancsS on 09/18/2017 5:04 PM
LoriF3,
It seems to me that you have a limited knowledge of HOA's and the fundamentals of HOA governance. I was in your shoes 10 years ago when I built a new home in an HOA. But as events transpired that forced me to learn more than what I had understood. So....

Do you understand the basics of HOA documents? There are typically 3 sets of documents, the covenants, the bylaws, and rules and regulations. The covenants are typically architectural things like size of the home, setbacks, garages, sheds, fences, etc. Bylaws are the associations laws that govern the HOA. These are things like election of directors, how many, officer positions, assessments, and payment of assessesments , things like that. Rules address things like when garbage can be placed at the curb, parking, mowing the grass, etc.

Do you understand the dynamics of HOA governance?Some HOAs are self managed and others are managed by a property manager. The property manager works for the HOA at the direction of The Board of Drectors not the other way around.

Read all of your documents very carefully. Research the basics of HOA laws in your state. Certainly come to this forum and ask questions but I think if you get a better grasp of HOA fundamentals your questions here will make more sense and some posters will be able to help you. There is a wealth of knowledge here.

I have read them but they don't follow them

BancsS
Posts: 269

Posted:

Start with getting an owner's list and organize a meeting of owners without the property manager.

In Iowa, owners are allowed to obtain this list. You will have to check on North Carolina law regarding this.

As Kerry said, you may have to hire an attorney to help you.

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BancsS on 09/18/2017 6:08 PM
Start with getting an owner's list and organize a meeting of owners without the property manager.

In Iowa, owners are allowed to obtain this list. You will have to check on North Carolina law regarding this.

As Kerry said, you may have to hire an attorney to help you.

I have been asking for a list but no luck so far and I am trying to see if I can find the right attorney

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LoriF3 on 09/18/2017 2:38 PM
Okay I will try again I moved in to the subdivision 3 years ago .At that time we were given a lot of papers .Having just moved I did not bother to look into them until about a year later .
At at that time I asked who was the president of our home owner association no one knew finally a lady replied that she was .
I let it go for a little but but some thing happened and I decided to try and have a meeting of other owners to discuss some thing which had been going on .

Well I was planning on a meeting with just home owners but the woman who was helping get things together invited the property manager .
Now we have lived here now about a year and a half
This would be the first time we ever met him or the president
After this meeting they scheduled another meeting about a month later .
Due to unforeseen circumstances I was unable to go to this meeting .
At this meeting even though they did not have a quorum they selected people for the home owners association ,the property manager chose someone to be the president. Potentially that would violate not only your governing documents but also potentially your State Laws. Sorry ... a Property Manager cannot designate your HOA officers. Your Property Manager is in essence an "employee" via any "contract" of the HOA. When it comes down to anything the BUCK will stop with your HOA Board.
Now this current president and vice president and a secretary is all that is left on this home owners association .
The president and vice president are not very reachable tried to send emails and hardly get returned have asked to speak to the president to get some things figured out all with no response ,the secretary is the only one I can actually get a hold of ,she is the one who thinks we do not have a board of directors .I do know there used to be one per paperwork I found on the secretary of states web site .Bylaws mention that there is to be a director of 3 for the first year dated 1998 after 1 year there was suppose to be 5 .I found no record of 5 but did see one of the three resigned .
The current property management company has complaints all over the place and even a local tv station was called in to investigate .He lost a realtor license in 2001 or 2004 do not recall which one but also per the tv station web site that they still have some open complaints on him . Before it reached this point you should have been sending any letters or requests in writing via "Certified Return Receipt" ... potentially when they have to SIGN for letters it will get their attention. If you attached those signed cards to your copy of the letters sent ... they will be applicable in a Court of Law .... and which if the HOA has any brains they will understand.

I have tried to google about hoa attorneys but I can't seem to figure out who might do this . Do what via HOA attorney?

I hope this explains what I am going through and do see why others here have basically gave up and moved ,because nothing is getting done .
Two abandoned properties numerous cars parking anyway they want on sidewalks on the grass just to name a few things .He never comes through he does not reply to phone or emails. Who is HE??? Are you still under developer control???
This is my last shot at trying to get things changed. I have been there and experienced a lot ... especially with developers. I and other owners even sued developer regarding our isssues. I can understand your frustration ... but you also need to understand ours when items you post do not give us specific information from your governing documents. Keep in mind we are not attorneys and only owners who have been there and done that.

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Lets see I have mailed a letter to the management company via certified mail suppose to get there by Wednesday .

Some people on here told me I need a attorney to help with the legal stuff mentioned in our CC&R .

The man I am speaking of is the property manager

LoriF3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 240

Posted:

Oh and no not under a developer since the subdivision is from 1998 I would not think we are .

BancsS
Posts: 269

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LoriF3 on 09/19/2017 4:51 AM
Lets see I have mailed a letter to the management company via certified mail suppose to get there by Wednesday .

Some people on here told me I need a attorney to help with the legal stuff mentioned in our CC&R .

The man I am speaking of is the property manager

An attorney may put pressure on the property manager and/or HOA president to provide you an owner's list. In Iowa the HOA has 10 days to comply to records requests which includes an owner's list and if they don't your attorney fees may have to be paid by the HOA. You should research North Carolina law regarding this though. You may request other documents as well such as minutes of board meetings, etc.

I was able to get a ton of documents from my HOA because it was part of discovery in a lawsuit against me. These docs were a real eye opener. I just obtained a local small town attorney. He did the job reasonably well (I was not completely satisfied) but was very expensive. But they all are.

The drawback though is that if those funds come out of the HOA's funds they could raise your assessments. This is what happened to my HOA. A special assessment ensued because of the cost of litigation.

You are far from the point of litigation though. I would try to get my hands on as many HOA documents that you can. These will help you get a good understanding of the history of your HOA which in turn may help you proceed with getting owners to listen.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LoriF3 on 09/19/2017 4:51 AM
Lets see I have mailed a letter to the management company via certified mail suppose to get there by Wednesday .

Some people on here told me I need a attorney to help with the legal stuff mentioned in our CC&R .

The man I am speaking of is the property manager

Just to verify are you Single Family Homes are are you Condo? If you are Single Family ... Here is your State Statutes (if you are Condo let me know and I will post appropriate link):

http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/statutes/StatutesTOC.pl?Chapter=0047F

Then this is your North Carolina Non-Profit Corporation Act:

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascripts/Statutes/StatutesTOC.pl?Chapter=0055A

Then you will have your Articles of Incorporation, CCR's (Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions), By-Laws, and in some HOA's also Rules and Regulations. Potentially if you do not have copies of the top three documents most should be available via your local County Records (sometimes Articles if not filed with the County Records will be available through your State where they were filed and some states do not require filing of bylaws so would only be available through the HOA).

Now ... here is what I did when first learning ... I made an extra copy of all these documents and printed copies of the State Statutes. I placed everything in a large 3-ring binder with tabs separating the various documents. I then sat down and read the documents many, many times with a highlighter using different colors for different responsibilities. For example I used Orange for "Developer", Yellow for "Homeowners", Green for "Board", Pink for "Shall" / "Shall Not" / "Notwithstanding", etc.... Then in future if I looked anything up with those words highlighted I could immediately see where certain responsibilities were placed.

Keep in mind if your documents have not been amended to remove prior developer and to show law updates ... there are potentially laws which can and will supercede your CCR's. That is potentially where the words shall, shall not, notwithstanding .... will come into the scene. For example many states have reduced the vote requirement to amend CCR's to around 67%; however, some CCR's might have a higher percentage noted in their documents. The State Law will make a statement such as "Notwithstanding what has been stated in the governing documents the minimum requirement to Amend shall be set at 67% unless a lower percentage is noted in said governing documents." YEP ... that "Notwithstanding" means it does not matter what was stated in your CCR's if they say for example 75% ... it becomes "null and void" and is then actually set to 67% via the state statute.

So when I ran across these type discrepancies I took a PENCIL (because laws can change and pencil allows change) and in my CCR's I made notes to the text with corrections and with the State Statute number noted to the side in the margin. In my last HOA we were in a lawsuit against two developers and this helped me a lot when dealing with attorneys. LOL ... even after the lawsuit when the one developer would try to pull more sneaky trash ... because of the information I had I could run circles around him. It made a huge difference when I could cite either the Governing Document sections or the State Statute sections. Pretty soon the developer stopped wasting money on their piss poor attorney and when I said Jump they started asking How High.