💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Our Homeowners Association consist of a computer file named XX Homeowners Association By-Laws and an EIN (Federal Tax ID). We file federal form 1120-H, U.S. Income Tax Return for Homeowners Associations.

However, there is no declaration of a HOA filed and attached to the deeds. There is no Articles of Incorporation, and we are not a Non-Profit Corporation, or corporation of any kind. That is, our HOA is imaginary. I suspect that any contract that we sign is invalid.

That hasn’t stopped us from having an annual homeowners meeting where we elect officers. These officers estimate the annual expenses(approximately $10,000), assess each of our twenty-nine homeowner their share, and contract for the maintenance of the front entrance decorations. They have contracted with a landscaping company to do maintenance on the entrance decorations and they have signed an easement with the entrance lot owners so the landscape company has access to the decorations. They have bought liability insurance for the HOA, and insurance for the entrance decorations(valued at $50,000), which they don’t own.

Everyone that I have talked with thinks that the HOA is real, and that membership and paying the assessment is mandatory. This has been going on for about eighteen years with 100% participation. I’ve been elected as the Vice-President and discovered this when I looked into our history.

Is this a can of worms that I want to open? Should we contact a lawyer and try to fix this?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Where did you look for the documents? Did any get a copy at time of sale? More details why think imaginary?

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Never heard of a Declaration of HOA.

I have heard of a Declaration of Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions.
Have you checked all deeds for development to see if there are deed restrictions attached (which is what the CC&Rs are)?
Have you checked the PLAT for CC&Rs?

An HOA may or may not be incorporated.
Incorporation is not always a requirement.
Any requirement to be incorporated would be in State statutes.

Do you want to open the can of worms?
Only you can answer that.

Should the Association contact an attorney to verify their status?
Perhaps.

One could also check with their title insurance or, simply go to the courthouse or records office and check what is attached to their deed.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Go to the county courthouse and do some research. Is it possible that everyone has been wrong for 18 years? Absolutely. But maybe it's just you. Touch all the bases to be sure.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
County clerk, register of deeds. Tell them you're looking for the original, filed copies of the HOA documents and see what you come up with.
GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
IMO, it is imperative that you clarify the status of the entity which is acting on behalf of the owners. For a board member who "suspects" that this organization is not authorized by a Declaration and not validate is a violation of the fiduciary duties of care and trust.

It is a huge potential liability to the homeowners if they are led to believe that their HOA is operating with a corporate veil to "protect" them-not to mention fraudulent to permit a situation to persist that is in fact, "an emperor with no clothes".

Tim gave great advice-check your PLAT and see what the Developer recorded on the Plat, as well as what was recorded in the public record. Corporate standing and IRS filing is the least of your problems at this point.
GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Thanks to all responders. The general consensus is “Where have you looked” and “Look harder”. This is certainly good advice.

On my deed, there is a statement that it is “Subject to Restrictive Covenants recorded on book xxxx, page xxx.” This made the contract to buy the property a contract to abide by the covenants. All is well understood and accepted.

There is nothing else attached to the deed or plat. There is nothing in the deed, plat, or the covenants that refer to a homeowners association or anything concerning assessments, dues, payments, fines, fees, or mandatory membership.

I could go to the county courthouse, county clerk, and register of deeds, but if any pertinent documents exist, I would think that they would be attached to the deed. Where else would I look?

I have looked in the NC corporations’ database, and there is nothing identified with our subdivision. That is why I believe that we are not incorporated.

GwenG,
Would you elaborate on your concern that “It is a huge potential liability to the homeowners if they are led to believe that their HOA is operating with a corporate veil to "protect" them-not to mention fraudulent to permit a situation to persist that is in fact, "an emperor with no clothes".
I share your concern. I just need to know more.

The person that was instrumental in setting up the present situation says:

"You are reading too much into everything."
"You need to find something else to think about."
"This is 18 year old stuff."
"I am a very busy person and don't have time for questions like these."
"No such questions have ever been asked in 18 years."

Thanks to all,
Gary
GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
Your deed is incorporating something by reference to a book and a page.
Please refer to the official record that is on your deed to see what it is. It could be a plat book or it could be an OR book with deed restrictions described. That is the first thing to do. Most counties have all of their public records online so you should not need to visit the courthouse for this information
JonathanR1 (Georgia)
Posts: 54
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GaryM15 on 08/24/2017 12:55 PM

The person that was instrumental in setting up the present situation says:

"You are reading too much into everything."
"You need to find something else to think about."
"This is 18 year old stuff."
"I am a very busy person and don't have time for questions like these."
"No such questions have ever been asked in 18 years."


That is such cringeworthy talk. Have you ever paid a contractor, found out he had no license to be one, and been told "You are reading too much into everything" when confronted about it? Because that feels like exactly what I'm reading.

Tell them that you'll stop paying dues and see what happens. All of a sudden, the law might become important to said person.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
..... On my deed, there is a statement that it is “Subject to Restrictive Covenants recorded on book xxxx, page xxx.” This made the contract to buy the property a contract to abide by the covenants. All is well understood and accepted.

There is nothing else attached to the deed or plat. There is nothing in the deed, plat, or the covenants that refer to a homeowners association or anything concerning assessments, dues, payments, fines, fees, or mandatory membership. .....


Said "Restrictive Covenants" are, in fact, 'attached to the deed' and are a BINDING CONTRACT.

The term 'attached to the deed' does NOT mean physically stapled, but is the vernacular for 'referenced within'.

Said "Restrictive Covenants" will reference the HOA which IS IN FACT in existence.

The HOA may, or may not, be incorporated - but exists none-the-less.

It would be incorporated to protect the membership from PERSONAL liability (via the 'corporate shield principle) so that they can NOT lose their home regardless of the judgment against the (incorporated) HOA.

next time:

CAVEAT EMPTOR
GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 08/24/2017 1:15 PM
Your deed is incorporating something by reference to a book and a page.
Please refer to the official record that is on your deed to see what it is. It could be a plat book or it could be an OR book with deed restrictions described. That is the first thing to do. Most counties have all of their public records online so you should not need to visit the courthouse for this information

What is referenced is the Protective Covenants. Nothing more and nothing less. There is no reference to any homeowners association.
GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 08/24/2017 1:39 PM
..... On my deed, there is a statement that it is “Subject to Restrictive Covenants recorded on book xxxx, page xxx.” This made the contract to buy the property a contract to abide by the covenants. All is well understood and accepted.

There is nothing else attached to the deed or plat. There is nothing in the deed, plat, or the covenants that refer to a homeowners association or anything concerning assessments, dues, payments, fines, fees, or mandatory membership. .....


Said "Restrictive Covenants" are, in fact, 'attached to the deed' and are a BINDING CONTRACT.

The term 'attached to the deed' does NOT mean physically stapled, but is the vernacular for 'referenced within'.

Said "Restrictive Covenants" will reference the HOA which IS IN FACT in existence.

The HOA may, or may not, be incorporated - but exists none-the-less.

It would be incorporated to protect the membership from PERSONAL liability (via the 'corporate shield principle) so that they can NOT lose their home regardless of the judgment against the (incorporated) HOA.

next time:

CAVEAT EMPTOR

Said "Restrictive Covenants" do not reference the HOA. I cannot find any indication that it exist.

GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
I have never heard of Restrictive Covenants that did not establish an authority for a homeowner association to run the business of the association. Prior to turnover, the Developer did this. But, after turnover, it is the homeowners' job via their representatives. There must be some vehicle described in the Restrictive Covenants that calls on an entity to conduct business for the association. Are you sure you have read the Covenants thoroughly?

The Association that is authorized by the Covenants will then establish a (usually) not-for profit corporation which will describe how the corporate side will be operated and give it certain corporate authorities that will not conflict with the Covenants. If this has not been done (and it should be easy to establish this with your Secretary of State), it should be done pronto.

Corporations help to limit the exposure of individuals' properties with regard to debt obligations, court judgements and litigation, accidental injury and death on common property and such. Without a corporation, "injured" individuals can name every single homeowner as responsible for damages and each homeowner will have to hire an attorney to defend them. If they lose, their assets can be attached and seized. I don't think that is what homeowners have in mind when they buy into an association.

Many people do not realize there are actually TWO distinct bodies to an HOA--the property restrictive side that is the Covenants attached to the deed and "runs with the land"--the CONTRACT--and the corporate side, which is the operational side of the business of the HOA and does NOT run with the land and is not a contract. There are two different "lives". One can have HOA Covenant deed restriction without a corporation to run the HOA, but it is a very bad idea because it exposes members to personal liability for mishaps on common property and misdeeds of the corporation and corporate players.

Anyone who says you are "thinking too much" is a bobblehead. Ignore them and do due diligence.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
..... One can have HOA Covenant deed restriction without a corporation to run the HOA, but it is a very bad idea because it exposes members to personal liability for mishaps on common property and misdeeds of the corporation and corporate players. .....


DITTO DITTO DITTO

PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
..... Said "Restrictive Covenants" do not reference the HOA. I cannot find any indication that it exist. .....


? no mention of common elements ?

? no mention of voting rights or membership ?

? no mention of assessments ?

? no mention of fines, liens, or other penalties ?

? who or what do YOU think will pay the bills for your common elements ?

You are, in fact, a member of the association.

You VOLUNTARILY joined when you purchased your property.

? You did not know ?

? You did not read what you signed for ?

Oh well

CAVEAT EMPTOR
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Pita has hit the nail on the head. Your looking for the wrong key words and physical attachment. No your documents were NOT physically attached to your paperwork. They are considered PUBLIC documents. They reference the document number you will find them under at the courthouse. Many states make it a responsibility of the seller to turnover the documents at time of sale. Otherwise, the law says it's the buyer's responsibility to "be informed". Hence why they are PUBLIC documents.

My question? How does your HOA know how to operate without having any documentation or by-laws? I brought a copy to every meeting. No violation was ever written up without referencing the document and paragraph. Don't know how your HOA has been operating this long without any kind of reference material for even what standards are to be met.

BTW: It is NOT called a "Homeowner's Association" necessarily. That is part of the nomenclature of your corporation. If you refer to your HOA as "The Greener Pastures HOA", then that is where you find reference to HOA. What does your Tax ID identify what your called? Otherwise the documents are your Convenant and Restrictions (CC&R's), Article of Incorporation, or Bylaws.

Former HOA President
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
OMG

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh

I AGREE
GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63
Posted:

Thanks for your response. I sincerely appreciate the time and effort that you spend to discuss this with me.



Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 08/24/2017 2:37 PM
I have never heard of Restrictive Covenants that did not establish an authority for a homeowner association to run the business of the association. Prior to turnover, the Developer did this. But, after turnover, it is the homeowners' job via their representatives. There must be some vehicle described in the Restrictive Covenants that calls on an entity to conduct business for the association. Are you sure you have read the Covenants thoroughly?

I have read, and re-read the covenants thoroughly! The Restrictive Covenants do not establish an authority for a homeowner association to run the business of the association. We "act" as a HOA, and do a good job of running the neighborhood, but I believe that we are not a legal entity, and have no legal right to collect assessments, let alone charge late fees or foreclose for nonpayment.



Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 08/24/2017 2:37 PM
The Association that is authorized by the Covenants will then establish a (usually) not-for profit corporation which will describe how the corporate side will be operated and give it certain corporate authorities that will not conflict with the Covenants. If this has not been done (and it should be easy to establish this with your Secretary of State), it should be done pronto.

There is no association that is authorized by the Covenants.



Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 08/24/2017 2:37 PM
Corporations help to limit the exposure of individuals' properties with regard to debt obligations, court judgements and litigation, accidental injury and death on common property and such. Without a corporation, "injured" individuals can name every single homeowner as responsible for damages and each homeowner will have to hire an attorney to defend them. If they lose, their assets can be attached and seized. I don't think that is what homeowners have in mind when they buy into an association.

I here you loud and clear. This is one of my major concerns. However, there is no common property. We have a bank account, collect "contributions" from the homeowners, and pay a landscaping company to maintain the entrance decorations (which we don't own). We have no pool, tennis courts, or other real-estate. I agree that if we eventually form an association, we also need to form a corporation. Presently, I can't find any evidence of an association or corporation.



Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 08/24/2017 2:37 PM
Many people do not realize there are actually TWO distinct bodies to an HOA--the property restrictive side that is the Covenants attached to the deed and "runs with the land"--the CONTRACT--and the corporate side, which is the operational side of the business of the HOA and does NOT run with the land and is not a contract. There are two different "lives". One can have HOA Covenant deed restriction without a corporation to run the HOA, but it is a very bad idea because it exposes members to personal liability for mishaps on common property and misdeeds of the corporation and corporate players.

I understand the concept of two distinct bodies. We have a recorded set of covenants that are enforced by our acting HOA, but the term "HOA Covenant deed restriction" is not quite correct. It is a "Covenant deed restriction" without any reference to a HOA.



One course of action is to continue to act as a HOA but don't push our luck and try to enforce mandatory assessments. The other choice is to contact a lawyer for further advice.

Again, my sincere thanks for your help.



KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
In your first post, Gary, you mention that you have bylaws. How many pages are they? What's in them? What do they say? Anything about elections ? Or the organizational structure of your entity?
GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 08/24/2017 3:39 PM
..... Said "Restrictive Covenants" do not reference the HOA. I cannot find any indication that it exist. .....


? no mention of common elements ? ans: There are no common elements.

? no mention of voting rights or membership ? ans: None at all.

? no mention of assessments ? ans: None at all.

? no mention of fines, liens, or other penalties ? ans: None at all.

? who or what do YOU think will pay the bills for your common elements ?
ans: There are no common elements. There are some entrance decorations, located on, and owned by, some lot owners. Our acting HOA collects funds and contracts a landscaping company to do maintenance.

You are, in fact, a member of the association. ans: I can't find any evidence of a legal association. We have a group of homeowners that act as a HOA in behalf of all the homeowners, but it is not a legal entity.

You VOLUNTARILY joined when you purchased your property. ans: There was not a HOA when we purchased our property. Our acting HOA was formed after the lots were sold and the neighborhood established.

? You did not know ? ans: I know that there is a protective covenant that we agreed to when he purchased the property, but nothing concerning a HOA.

? You did not read what you signed for ?

Oh well

CAVEAT EMPTOR

GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/24/2017 5:43 PM
In your first post, Gary, you mention that you have bylaws. How many pages are they? What's in them? What do they say? Anything about elections ? Or the organizational structure of your entity?

Yes, we have a well written set of bylaws, approximately four pages. They cover elections, and organizational structure of our so called homeowners association. They were written by a few of the homeowners, and distributed to the others, with the implication that they were binding. However, I believe that they have no significance to anyone outside of our group of homeowners.

Membership in a legal HOA is mandatory. It has the power to assess homeowners, charge late fees, and even foreclose on property for non-payment. That doesn't happen simply because some of the homeowners write a set of bylaws. There must be a legal entity established, with the homeowners contractual consent. I can't find any such document.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GaryM15 on 08/24/2017 2:13 PM
Posted By PitA on 08/24/2017 1:39 PM
..... On my deed, there is a statement that it is “Subject to Restrictive Covenants recorded on book xxxx, page xxx.” This made the contract to buy the property a contract to abide by the covenants. All is well understood and accepted.

There is nothing else attached to the deed or plat. There is nothing in the deed, plat, or the covenants that refer to a homeowners association or anything concerning assessments, dues, payments, fines, fees, or mandatory membership. .....


Said "Restrictive Covenants" are, in fact, 'attached to the deed' and are a BINDING CONTRACT.

The term 'attached to the deed' does NOT mean physically stapled, but is the vernacular for 'referenced within'.

Said "Restrictive Covenants" will reference the HOA which IS IN FACT in existence.

The HOA may, or may not, be incorporated - but exists none-the-less.

It would be incorporated to protect the membership from PERSONAL liability (via the 'corporate shield principle) so that they can NOT lose their home regardless of the judgment against the (incorporated) HOA.

next time:

CAVEAT EMPTOR


Said "Restrictive Covenants" do not reference the HOA. I cannot find any indication that it exist.


Have you been to the county to see what is officially recorded?
GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
If you have no mechanism to enforce covenants, what use are they except for members who wish to enforce against each other? Curious. What is the restrictive covenant(s) that was recorded with your deed?

You might act like a corporate association, but you are not one. This is called an illusion.

It is also apparent that you are not a mandatory association and do not have authority to collect assessments and place liens to foreclose for unpaid fees. You are probably not governed by any state homeowner law.

You are a voluntary association. A Club. IMO, it is fraudulent to "pretend" to the members that the community is something other than a voluntary and informal organization. You can do all the things you have been doing for years, with apparent success, but it is wrong to represent fraudulently to the members (and to the public). Be proud of being a well-run community improvement club!

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks for clarifying your "Bylaws," Gary. I has thought that bylaws indicate corporate status, but certainly not in your case.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Gary,

Without reading the covenants that are attached to your deed, nobody can really comment with certainty.

Typically, if an Association is mandatory, it will be within those covenants (available from the records office in book xxx page xxx)
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GaryM15 on 08/23/2017 8:32 PM
Our Homeowners Association consist of a computer file named XX Homeowners Association By-Laws and an EIN (Federal Tax ID). We file federal form 1120-H, U.S. Income Tax Return for Homeowners Associations.

However, there is no declaration of a HOA filed and attached to the deeds. There is no Articles of Incorporation, and we are not a Non-Profit Corporation, or corporation of any kind. That is, our HOA is imaginary. I suspect that any contract that we sign is invalid.

That hasn’t stopped us from having an annual homeowners meeting where we elect officers. These officers estimate the annual expenses(approximately $10,000), assess each of our twenty-nine homeowner their share, and contract for the maintenance of the front entrance decorations. They have contracted with a landscaping company to do maintenance on the entrance decorations and they have signed an easement with the entrance lot owners so the landscape company has access to the decorations. They have bought liability insurance for the HOA, and insurance for the entrance decorations(valued at $50,000), which they don’t own.

Everyone that I have talked with thinks that the HOA is real, and that membership and paying the assessment is mandatory. This has been going on for about eighteen years with 100% participation. I’ve been elected as the Vice-President and discovered this when I looked into our history.

Is this a can of worms that I want to open? Should we contact a lawyer and try to fix this?

OK let's see if we can figure this out ...

Your State HOA statutes make the following statement:

§ 47F-1-102. Applicability.
(a) This Chapter applies to all planned communities created within this State on or after January 1, 1999, except as otherwise provided in this section.
(b) This Chapter does not apply to a planned community created within this State on or after January 1, 1999:
(1) Which contains no more than 20 lots (including all lots which may be added or created by the exercise of development rights) unless the declaration provides or is amended to provide that this Chapter does apply to that planned community; or
(2) In which all lots are restricted exclusively to nonresidential purposes, unless the declaration provides or is amended to provide that this Chapter does apply to that planned community.

Therefore, you need to answer the following questions:

1. When were the "restrictions" attached to your property title filed with your County Records?

2. How many homes (a.k.a. Lots) are included in the restrictions?

After you answer those ... will have more questions ...
GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/24/2017 3:39 PM
Pita has hit the nail on the head. Your looking for the wrong key words and physical attachment. No your documents were NOT physically attached to your paperwork. They are considered PUBLIC documents. They reference the document number you will find them under at the courthouse. Many states make it a responsibility of the seller to turnover the documents at time of sale. Otherwise, the law says it's the buyer's responsibility to "be informed". Hence why they are PUBLIC documents.

My question? How does your HOA know how to operate without having any documentation or by-laws? I brought a copy to every meeting. No violation was ever written up without referencing the document and paragraph. Don't know how your HOA has been operating this long without any kind of reference material for even what standards are to be met.

BTW: It is NOT called a "Homeowner's Association" necessarily. That is part of the nomenclature of your corporation. If you refer to your HOA as "The Greener Pastures HOA", then that is where you find reference to HOA. What does your Tax ID identify what your called? Otherwise the documents are your Convenant and Restrictions (CC&R's), Article of Incorporation, or Bylaws.

To answer "How does your HOA know how to operate without having any documentation or by-laws?"

Our group of homeowners has written a set of by-laws, but its only value is to this group. Although we act like a HOA, we are not really a HOA. Our subdivision has a set of covenants (recorded and enforceable) that we can use for reference if there is a violation.
GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 08/25/2017 5:23 AM
Posted By GaryM15 on 08/23/2017 8:32 PM
Our Homeowners Association consist of a computer file named XX Homeowners Association By-Laws and an EIN (Federal Tax ID). We file federal form 1120-H, U.S. Income Tax Return for Homeowners Associations.

However, there is no declaration of a HOA filed and attached to the deeds. There is no Articles of Incorporation, and we are not a Non-Profit Corporation, or corporation of any kind. That is, our HOA is imaginary. I suspect that any contract that we sign is invalid.

That hasn’t stopped us from having an annual homeowners meeting where we elect officers. These officers estimate the annual expenses(approximately $10,000), assess each of our twenty-nine homeowner their share, and contract for the maintenance of the front entrance decorations. They have contracted with a landscaping company to do maintenance on the entrance decorations and they have signed an easement with the entrance lot owners so the landscape company has access to the decorations. They have bought liability insurance for the HOA, and insurance for the entrance decorations(valued at $50,000), which they don’t own.

Everyone that I have talked with thinks that the HOA is real, and that membership and paying the assessment is mandatory. This has been going on for about eighteen years with 100% participation. I’ve been elected as the Vice-President and discovered this when I looked into our history.

Is this a can of worms that I want to open? Should we contact a lawyer and try to fix this?


OK let's see if we can figure this out ...

Your State HOA statutes make the following statement:

§ 47F-1-102. Applicability.
(a) This Chapter applies to all planned communities created within this State on or after January 1, 1999, except as otherwise provided in this section.
(b) This Chapter does not apply to a planned community created within this State on or after January 1, 1999:
(1) Which contains no more than 20 lots (including all lots which may be added or created by the exercise of development rights) unless the declaration provides or is amended to provide that this Chapter does apply to that planned community; or
(2) In which all lots are restricted exclusively to nonresidential purposes, unless the declaration provides or is amended to provide that this Chapter does apply to that planned community.

Therefore, you need to answer the following questions:

1. When were the "restrictions" attached to your property title filed with your County Records?

2. How many homes (a.k.a. Lots) are included in the restrictions?

After you answer those ... will have more questions ...

The restrictions were filed in 1985, before any lots were sold.
All of the homes are included in the restrictions.
These restrictions refer only to things like livestock, setbacks, parking, boats, etc. They do not establish or reference in any way, a HOA or planned community, and therefore statue 47-F is not applicable.

GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63
Posted:
For those interested, here is a link to the Restrictive Covenants.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vzy5k6at64rid9r/Hawkshead%20Covenents.pdf?dl=0
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GaryM15 on 08/25/2017 7:28 AM
Posted By JanetB2 on 08/25/2017 5:23 AM
Posted By GaryM15 on 08/23/2017 8:32 PM
Our Homeowners Association consist of a computer file named XX Homeowners Association By-Laws and an EIN (Federal Tax ID). We file federal form 1120-H, U.S. Income Tax Return for Homeowners Associations.

However, there is no declaration of a HOA filed and attached to the deeds. There is no Articles of Incorporation, and we are not a Non-Profit Corporation, or corporation of any kind. That is, our HOA is imaginary. I suspect that any contract that we sign is invalid.

That hasn’t stopped us from having an annual homeowners meeting where we elect officers. These officers estimate the annual expenses(approximately $10,000), assess each of our twenty-nine homeowner their share, and contract for the maintenance of the front entrance decorations. They have contracted with a landscaping company to do maintenance on the entrance decorations and they have signed an easement with the entrance lot owners so the landscape company has access to the decorations. They have bought liability insurance for the HOA, and insurance for the entrance decorations(valued at $50,000), which they don’t own.

Everyone that I have talked with thinks that the HOA is real, and that membership and paying the assessment is mandatory. This has been going on for about eighteen years with 100% participation. I’ve been elected as the Vice-President and discovered this when I looked into our history.

Is this a can of worms that I want to open? Should we contact a lawyer and try to fix this?


OK let's see if we can figure this out ...

Your State HOA statutes make the following statement:

§ 47F-1-102. Applicability.
(a) This Chapter applies to all planned communities created within this State on or after January 1, 1999, except as otherwise provided in this section.
(b) This Chapter does not apply to a planned community created within this State on or after January 1, 1999:
(1) Which contains no more than 20 lots (including all lots which may be added or created by the exercise of development rights) unless the declaration provides or is amended to provide that this Chapter does apply to that planned community; or
(2) In which all lots are restricted exclusively to nonresidential purposes, unless the declaration provides or is amended to provide that this Chapter does apply to that planned community.

Therefore, you need to answer the following questions:

1. When were the "restrictions" attached to your property title filed with your County Records?

2. How many homes (a.k.a. Lots) are included in the restrictions?

After you answer those ... will have more questions ...


The restrictions were filed in 1985, before any lots were sold.
All of the homes are included in the restrictions.
These restrictions refer only to things like livestock, setbacks, parking, boats, etc. They do not establish or reference in any way, a HOA or planned community, and therefore statue 47-F is not applicable.


Don't be so fast to make that assumption. Now we need to look at the full section (I only noted part in my post above to narrow down and avoid possible confusion):

§ 47F-1-102. Applicability.
(a) This Chapter applies to all planned communities created within this State on or after January 1, 1999, except as otherwise provided in this section.
(b) This Chapter does not apply to a planned community created within this State on or after January 1, 1999:
(1) Which contains no more than 20 lots (including all lots which may be added or created by the exercise of development rights) unless the declaration provides or is amended to provide that this Chapter does apply to that planned community; or
(2) In which all lots are restricted exclusively to nonresidential purposes, unless the declaration provides or is amended to provide that this Chapter does apply to that planned community.
(c) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a) of this section, G.S. 47F-1-104 (Variation), G.S. 47F-2-103 (Construction and validity of declaration and bylaws), G.S. 47F-2-117 (Amendment of declaration), G.S. 47F-3-102(1) through (6) and (11) through (17) (Powers of owners' association), G.S. 47F-3-103(f) (Executive board members and officers), G.S. 47F-3-107(a), (b), and (c) (Upkeep of planned community; responsibility and assessments for damages), G.S. 47F-3-107.1 (Procedures for fines and suspension of planned community privileges or services), G.S. 47F-3-108 (Meetings), G.S. 47F-3-115 (Assessments for common expenses), G.S. 47F-3-116 (Lien for assessments), G.S. 47F-3-118 (Association records), and G.S. 47F-3-121 (American and State flags and political sign displays), and G.S. 47F-3-104 (Transfer of Special Declarant Rights) apply to all planned communities created in this State before January 1, 1999, unless the articles of incorporation or the declaration expressly provides to the contrary, and G.S. 47F-3-120 (Declaration limits on attorneys' fees) applies to all planned communities created in this State before January 1, 1999. These sections apply only with respect to events and circumstances occurring on or after January 1, 1999, and do not invalidate existing provisions of the declaration, bylaws, or plats and plans of those planned communities. G.S. 47F-1-103 (Definitions) also applies to all planned communities created in this State before January 1, 1999, to the extent necessary in construing any of the preceding sections.
(d) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsections (a) and (c) of this section, any planned community created prior to January 1, 1999, may elect to make the provisions of this Chapter applicable to it by amending its declaration to provide that this Chapter shall apply to that planned community. The amendment may be made by affirmative vote or written agreement signed by lot owners of lots to which at least sixty-seven percent (67%) of the votes in the association are allocated or any smaller majority the declaration specifies. To the extent the procedures and requirements for amendment in the declaration conflict with the provisions of this subsection, this subsection shall control with respect to any amendment to provide that this Chapter applies to that planned community.
(e) This Chapter does not apply to planned communities or lots located outside this State. (1998-199, s. 1; 2002-112, s. 2; 2004-109, s. 3; 2005-214, s. 1; 2005-422, s. 9; 2006-226, s. 15(a); 2013-34, s. 6; 2014-57, s. 1.)

You see it does apply with regards to certain sections because you are a "Planned Community" by virtue of the "Restrictions" filed with your County Records and attached to your property title. Even if filed prior to 1999 ... "unless" your documents expressly provides to the contrary. Therefore, does your documents expressly state they "shall not" be subjected to your State Law under 47F???

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
LOL ... told you I would have more questions
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GaryM15 on 08/23/2017 8:32 PM
Our Homeowners Association consist of a computer file named XX Homeowners Association By-Laws and an EIN (Federal Tax ID). We file federal form 1120-H, U.S. Income Tax Return for Homeowners Associations.

However, there is no declaration of a HOA filed and attached to the deeds. There is no Articles of Incorporation, and we are not a Non-Profit Corporation, or corporation of any kind. That is, our HOA is imaginary. I suspect that any contract that we sign is invalid.

That hasn’t stopped us from having an annual homeowners meeting where we elect officers. These officers estimate the annual expenses(approximately $10,000), assess each of our twenty-nine homeowner their share, and contract for the maintenance of the front entrance decorations. They have contracted with a landscaping company to do maintenance on the entrance decorations and they have signed an easement with the entrance lot owners so the landscape company has access to the decorations. They have bought liability insurance for the HOA, and insurance for the entrance decorations(valued at $50,000), which they don’t own.

Everyone that I have talked with thinks that the HOA is real, and that membership and paying the assessment is mandatory. This has been going on for about eighteen years with 100% participation. I’ve been elected as the Vice-President and discovered this when I looked into our history.

Is this a can of worms that I want to open? Should we contact a lawyer and try to fix this?

You need to make sure this property is NOT owned by the HOA or if the HOA took on the responsibility via vote from the Owners. Keep in mind an HOA cannot assess owner's or make them pay for any property they do not own or have legal liability (via contract) to maintain. If the HOA does not own this property then who does???

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Your statute definitions state:

(4) "Common elements" means any real estate within a planned community owned or leased by the association, other than a lot.
GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
Your HOA IS imaginary, but it has some HOA-like restrictions. The sigificant one establishes the authority for owners to vote for an Architectural Committee:

In the event that DXXXX COMPANY, INC should cease to exist, the owners of a majority of the lots in said Hxxxxxx subdivision may designate in writing a person or persons to perform the duties set forth in this covenant.

Your HOA does not have specific enforcement authority, but refers vaguely to certain violations as being "minor":

ENFORCEMENT.

Enforcement shall be by proceedings at law or in equity against any person or persons violating or attempting to violate any covenant either to restrain violation or to recover damages.

Your HOA is not mandatory and there are no assessments. You are a parcel with deed restrictions covering certain modifications to buildings and land, and certain lifestyle choices. The only enforcement is for a neighbor to sue their neighbor in court. Your homeowners are a Club that can elect and Architectural person or persons to permit modifications per the restrictions. The Architectural Committee does NOT have the power of the ALL the people to sue the Owner who chooses to violate the deed restrictions.

I would NEVER serve on an Architectural Committee. For starters, there is no authority to indemnify an owners action while serving on the Architectural Committee; it would be up to the homeowner themselves to get insurance to protect them against a suit filed by another homeowner for denying an Architectural request.

No, Thank you.

Interestingly, you could modify and/or do away with these restrictions entirely by the membership electing to NOT renew the automatic 10-year renewal clause (automatic after 25 years unless Owners vote NO RENEWAL).

Additionally, NC has a Marketable Records Title Act which may trump your Covenants. It is 30 years (like Florida and many other states) and automatically extinguishes Covenants, unless preserved by whatever mechanism is set up for NC. In this case, your Covenants theoretcally expired 30 years after recordation (1985) in 2015.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 08/25/2017 9:13 AM
Your HOA IS imaginary, but it has some HOA-like restrictions. The sigificant one establishes the authority for owners to vote for an Architectural Committee:

In the event that DXXXX COMPANY, INC should cease to exist, the owners of a majority of the lots in said Hxxxxxx subdivision may designate in writing a person or persons to perform the duties set forth in this covenant.

Your HOA does not have specific enforcement authority, but refers vaguely to certain violations as being "minor":

ENFORCEMENT.

Enforcement shall be by proceedings at law or in equity against any person or persons violating or attempting to violate any covenant either to restrain violation or to recover damages.

Your HOA is not mandatory and there are no assessments. You are a parcel with deed restrictions covering certain modifications to buildings and land, and certain lifestyle choices. The only enforcement is for a neighbor to sue their neighbor in court. Your homeowners are a Club that can elect and Architectural person or persons to permit modifications per the restrictions. The Architectural Committee does NOT have the power of the ALL the people to sue the Owner who chooses to violate the deed restrictions.

I would NEVER serve on an Architectural Committee. For starters, there is no authority to indemnify an owners action while serving on the Architectural Committee; it would be up to the homeowner themselves to get insurance to protect them against a suit filed by another homeowner for denying an Architectural request.

No, Thank you.

Interestingly, you could modify and/or do away with these restrictions entirely by the membership electing to NOT renew the automatic 10-year renewal clause (automatic after 25 years unless Owners vote NO RENEWAL).

Additionally, NC has a Marketable Records Title Act which may trump your Covenants. It is 30 years (like Florida and many other states) and automatically extinguishes Covenants, unless preserved by whatever mechanism is set up for NC. In this case, your Covenants theoretcally expired 30 years after recordation (1985) in 2015.

The above in bold would be in incorrect. Per the covered statutes as noted above parts of this section apply:

§ 47F-3-102. Powers of owners' association.
Unless the articles of incorporation or the declaration expressly provides to the contrary, the association may:
(1) Adopt and amend bylaws and rules and regulations;
(2) Adopt and amend budgets for revenues, expenditures, and reserves and collect assessments for common expenses from lot owners;
(3) Hire and discharge managing agents and other employees, agents, and independent contractors;
(4) Institute, defend, or intervene in litigation or administrative proceedings on matters affecting the planned community;
(5) Make contracts and incur liabilities;
(6) Regulate the use, maintenance, repair, replacement, and modification of common elements;
(7) Cause additional improvements to be made as a part of the common elements;
(8) Acquire, hold, encumber, and convey in its own name any right, title, or interest to real or personal property, provided that common elements may be conveyed or subjected to a security interest only pursuant to G.S. 47F-3-112;
(9) Grant easements, leases, licenses, and concessions through or over the common elements;
(10) Impose and receive any payments, fees, or charges for the use, rental, or operation of the common elements other than the limited common elements and for services provided to lot owners;
(11) Impose reasonable charges for late payment of assessments, not to exceed the greater of twenty dollars ($20.00) per month or ten percent (10%) of any assessment installment unpaid and, after notice and an opportunity to be heard, suspend privileges or services provided by the association (except rights of access to lots) during any period that assessments or other amounts due and owing to the association remain unpaid for a period of 30 days or longer;
(12) After notice and an opportunity to be heard, impose reasonable fines or suspend privileges or services provided by the association (except rights of access to lots) for reasonable periods for violations of the declaration, bylaws, and rules and regulations of the association;
(13) Impose reasonable charges in connection with the preparation and recordation of documents, including, without limitation, amendments to the declaration or statements of unpaid assessments;
(14) Provide for the indemnification of and maintain liability insurance for its officers, executive board, directors, employees, and agents;
(15) Assign its right to future income, including the right to receive common expense assessments;
(16) Exercise all other powers that may be exercised in this State by legal entities of the same type as the association; and
(17) Exercise any other powers necessary and proper for the governance and operation of the association. (1998-199, s. 1; 2004-109, s. 4; 2005-422, s.

As noted in (2) above the association can collect assessments for common expenses. The OP has yet to clarify their "common elements" subject to any assessments.
GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
If you reference the Covenants, it is obvious that it was not declared subject to § 47F-3-102.

There is NO common property; the only property encumbered by the Covenants is owner parcels.

There is no authority for an association--only for an Architectural Committee and this authority expired by virtue of NC MRTA in 2015.

There are no assessments because there is no common property.

The HOA is imaginary.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 08/25/2017 10:01 AM
If you reference the Covenants, it is obvious that it was not declared subject to § 47F-3-102.

There is NO common property; the only property encumbered by the Covenants is owner parcels.

There is no authority for an association--only for an Architectural Committee and this authority expired by virtue of NC MRTA in 2015.

There are no assessments because there is no common property.

The HOA is imaginary.

So where are you supposedly referencing the Covenants? The statute states they do not have to be declared subject to the section ... instead they must state they are NOT subject to the section.

If the membership took on a contract for the entrance property as OP is eluding to ... then possibly yes there would be common property.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Ahhh never mind I see it now ... earlier I missed the link noted above for CCR's.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
....... the windmills of my miiiiinnd .......
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
It almost seems like it was never turned over to the homeowners. Still in Developer control maybe?
GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
The Covenants were recorded in 1985. NC Mrta likely expired them in 2015. This can be easily confirmed with a title search and attorney opinion.

§ 47F-3-102 states:

(d) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsections (a) and (c) of this section, any planned community created prior to January 1, 1999, may elect to make the provisions of this Chapter applicable to it by amending its declaration to provide that this Chapter shall apply to that planned community. The amendment may be made by affirmative vote or written agreement signed by lot owners of lots to which at least sixty-seven percent (67%) of the votes in the association are allocated or any smaller majority the declaration specifies. To the extent the procedures and requirements for amendment in the declaration conflict with the provisions of this subsection, this subsection shall control with respect to any amendment to provide that this Chapter applies to that planned community.

This statute does not apply but, if the Covenants had provided for an association, it might have conceivably been enacted by vote of the homeowners. BUT, there was no authority in the Covenants for homeowners to involuntarily encumber other homeowners with a law. The law specifically defers to the voting methods described in the Declaration and the Declaration did not provide for an association or voting on anything.

This is not an HOA. It is a subdivision governed by local laws. It has formed a Club that collects voluntary contributions to decorate property it does not own. No one has questioned it and apparently, there are persons who do not welcome anyone to look too closely...

Paying insurance? What for? Landscaping contractors for property that does not belong to the owners? Who owns the entrance?

If the homeowners want to pretend to be a HOA, so be it. But, anyone who states an authority to collect assessments is misrepresenting fraudulently.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I believe this to be a real HOA. Gwen has issues with HOA's so I would take that opinion for what it's worth. No offense. Anytime a HOA has the opportunity to no longer be one, there is Gwen....

Confused. You say your HOA has by-laws and then covenants? So what does not make this a real HOA? What document or statement do you have to see that says "We are HOA?" that you feel you are missing? By-laws are usually internal HOA documents. They don't have to be filed in many states.

Keep in mind that contracts don't have to be as "fancy" as you may think. The law may view the fact that your neighbors have agreed to live by a set of by-laws as a contract. I have heard of some HOA's just having ACC documentation only. Still enforceable.

HOA's usually have 3 documents: By-laws, Covenant & Restrictions, and Articles of Incorporation. Sometimes Archectual control (ACC) documents. If not incorporated, then those documents don't exist. Not every HOA has to be incorporated. Doesn't mean one can't enforce rules or collect assessments. It just means your not incorporated. Which can lead to more liabilities onto the members.

Former HOA President
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Gwen ... MRTA did not expire them.

§ 47B-3. Exceptions.

Such marketable record title shall not affect or extinguish the following rights:

(13)  Covenants applicable to a general or uniform scheme of development which 
restrict the property to residential use only, provided said covenants are otherwise enforceable. The excepted covenant may restrict the property to multi-family or single-family residential use or simply to residential use. Restrictive covenants other than those mentioned herein which limit the property to residential use only are not excepted from the provisions of Chapter 47B. (1973, c. 255, s. 1; 1995, c. 443, s. 3.)
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 08/25/2017 2:27 PM

This statute does not apply but, if the Covenants had provided for an association, it might have conceivably been enacted by vote of the homeowners. BUT, there was no authority in the Covenants for homeowners to involuntarily encumber other homeowners with a law. The law specifically defers to the voting methods described in the Declaration and the Declaration did not provide for an association or voting on anything.

Incorrect ... the STATE LAW gives the authority. The legislators made ALL Planned Communities subject to various parts of the section depending on when the CCR's were filed. They apply unless the articles or CCR's "expressly" provides to the contrary. That would leave an out for any HOA's established before 1999 to amend their CCR's to exempt themselves if they desired after the HOA statutes were made permanent law.

(c) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a) of this section, G.S. 47F-1-104 (Variation), G.S. 47F-2-103 (Construction and validity of declaration and bylaws), G.S. 47F-2-117 (Amendment of declaration), G.S. 47F-3-102(1) through (6) and (11) through (17) (Powers of owners' association), G.S. 47F-3-103(f) (Executive board members and officers), G.S. 47F-3-107(a), (b), and (c) (Upkeep of planned community; responsibility and assessments for damages), G.S. 47F-3-107.1 (Procedures for fines and suspension of planned community privileges or services), G.S. 47F-3-108 (Meetings), G.S. 47F-3-115 (Assessments for common expenses), G.S. 47F-3-116 (Lien for assessments), G.S. 47F-3-118 (Association records), and G.S. 47F-3-121 (American and State flags and political sign displays), and G.S. 47F-3-104 (Transfer of Special Declarant Rights) apply to all planned communities created in this State before January 1, 1999, unless the articles of incorporation or the declaration expressly provides to the contrary, and G.S. 47F-3-120 (Declaration limits on attorneys' fees) applies to all planned communities created in this State before January 1, 1999. These sections apply only with respect to events and circumstances occurring on or after January 1, 1999, and do not invalidate existing provisions of the declaration, bylaws, or plats and plans of those planned communities. G.S. 47F-1-103 (Definitions) also applies to all planned communities created in this State before January 1, 1999, to the extent necessary in construing any of the preceding sections.

Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 08/25/2017 2:27 PM

This is not an HOA. It is a subdivision governed by local laws. It has formed a Club that collects voluntary contributions to decorate property it does not own. No one has questioned it and apparently, there are persons who do not welcome anyone to look too closely...

Paying insurance? What for? Landscaping contractors for property that does not belong to the owners? Who owns the entrance?

If the homeowners want to pretend to be a HOA, so be it. But, anyone who states an authority to collect assessments is misrepresenting fraudulently.

Incorrect ... They are an HOA by virtue of the State Statute. The remaining question is did they potentially encumber themselves with "common elements" via a contract???
GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 08/25/2017 8:29 AM
Your statute definitions state:

(4) "Common elements" means any real estate within a planned community owned or leased by the association, other than a lot.

JanetB2,
Thanks for your interest.

First, let me state that there are no common elements as defined as “any real estate within a planned community owned or leased by the association, other than a lot.”

There are four corner lots that contain entrance decorations. These decorations are stonework, trees, shrubs, and signs. They were in place before any lots were sold. When these lots were sold, there was not any homeowners association, imaginary or real. I believe that these decorations became the property of the individual lot owners. I am 100% sure that that this property is not owned by the HOA. The HOA did not exist when this property was sold to the individual lot owners.

After the lots were sold, a few of the homeowners wrote a set of bylaws and called them Homeowner Association By-Laws. No legal organization was ever formed. Meetings were held, and officers were elected. The developer turned responsibility of the architectural committee over to the officers of the homeowners association.

The primary function of the homeowners association is to maintain the entrance decorations. The officers estimate the annual expenses (approximately $10,000), assess each of our twenty-nine homeowner their share, and contract for the maintenance of the front entrance decorations. They have contracted with a landscaping company to do maintenance on the entrance decorations and they have signed an easement with the entrance lot owners so the landscape company has access to the decorations. They have bought liability insurance for the HOA, and insurance for the entrance decorations (valued at $50,000), which they don’t own. I believe that the HOA is imaginary, and has no legal ability to enter into a contract.
GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 08/25/2017 7:51 AM
Posted By GaryM15 on 08/25/2017 7:28 AM
Posted By JanetB2 on 08/25/2017 5:23 AM
Posted By GaryM15 on 08/23/2017 8:32 PM
Our Homeowners Association consist of a computer file named XX Homeowners Association By-Laws and an EIN (Federal Tax ID). We file federal form 1120-H, U.S. Income Tax Return for Homeowners Associations.

However, there is no declaration of a HOA filed and attached to the deeds. There is no Articles of Incorporation, and we are not a Non-Profit Corporation, or corporation of any kind. That is, our HOA is imaginary. I suspect that any contract that we sign is invalid.

That hasn’t stopped us from having an annual homeowners meeting where we elect officers. These officers estimate the annual expenses(approximately $10,000), assess each of our twenty-nine homeowner their share, and contract for the maintenance of the front entrance decorations. They have contracted with a landscaping company to do maintenance on the entrance decorations and they have signed an easement with the entrance lot owners so the landscape company has access to the decorations. They have bought liability insurance for the HOA, and insurance for the entrance decorations(valued at $50,000), which they don’t own.

Everyone that I have talked with thinks that the HOA is real, and that membership and paying the assessment is mandatory. This has been going on for about eighteen years with 100% participation. I’ve been elected as the Vice-President and discovered this when I looked into our history.

Is this a can of worms that I want to open? Should we contact a lawyer and try to fix this?


OK let's see if we can figure this out ...

Your State HOA statutes make the following statement:

§ 47F-1-102. Applicability.
(a) This Chapter applies to all planned communities created within this State on or after January 1, 1999, except as otherwise provided in this section.
(b) This Chapter does not apply to a planned community created within this State on or after January 1, 1999:
(1) Which contains no more than 20 lots (including all lots which may be added or created by the exercise of development rights) unless the declaration provides or is amended to provide that this Chapter does apply to that planned community; or
(2) In which all lots are restricted exclusively to nonresidential purposes, unless the declaration provides or is amended to provide that this Chapter does apply to that planned community.

Therefore, you need to answer the following questions:

1. When were the "restrictions" attached to your property title filed with your County Records?

2. How many homes (a.k.a. Lots) are included in the restrictions?

After you answer those ... will have more questions ...


The restrictions were filed in 1985, before any lots were sold.
All of the homes are included in the restrictions.
These restrictions refer only to things like livestock, setbacks, parking, boats, etc. They do not establish or reference in any way, a HOA or planned community, and therefore statue 47-F is not applicable.



Don't be so fast to make that assumption. Now we need to look at the full section (I only noted part in my post above to narrow down and avoid possible confusion):

§ 47F-1-102. Applicability.
(a) This Chapter applies to all planned communities created within this State on or after January 1, 1999, except as otherwise provided in this section.
(b) This Chapter does not apply to a planned community created within this State on or after January 1, 1999:
(1) Which contains no more than 20 lots (including all lots which may be added or created by the exercise of development rights) unless the declaration provides or is amended to provide that this Chapter does apply to that planned community; or
(2) In which all lots are restricted exclusively to nonresidential purposes, unless the declaration provides or is amended to provide that this Chapter does apply to that planned community.
(c) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a) of this section, G.S. 47F-1-104 (Variation), G.S. 47F-2-103 (Construction and validity of declaration and bylaws), G.S. 47F-2-117 (Amendment of declaration), G.S. 47F-3-102(1) through (6) and (11) through (17) (Powers of owners' association), G.S. 47F-3-103(f) (Executive board members and officers), G.S. 47F-3-107(a), (b), and (c) (Upkeep of planned community; responsibility and assessments for damages), G.S. 47F-3-107.1 (Procedures for fines and suspension of planned community privileges or services), G.S. 47F-3-108 (Meetings), G.S. 47F-3-115 (Assessments for common expenses), G.S. 47F-3-116 (Lien for assessments), G.S. 47F-3-118 (Association records), and G.S. 47F-3-121 (American and State flags and political sign displays), and G.S. 47F-3-104 (Transfer of Special Declarant Rights) apply to all planned communities created in this State before January 1, 1999, unless the articles of incorporation or the declaration expressly provides to the contrary, and G.S. 47F-3-120 (Declaration limits on attorneys' fees) applies to all planned communities created in this State before January 1, 1999. These sections apply only with respect to events and circumstances occurring on or after January 1, 1999, and do not invalidate existing provisions of the declaration, bylaws, or plats and plans of those planned communities. G.S. 47F-1-103 (Definitions) also applies to all planned communities created in this State before January 1, 1999, to the extent necessary in construing any of the preceding sections.
(d) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsections (a) and (c) of this section, any planned community created prior to January 1, 1999, may elect to make the provisions of this Chapter applicable to it by amending its declaration to provide that this Chapter shall apply to that planned community. The amendment may be made by affirmative vote or written agreement signed by lot owners of lots to which at least sixty-seven percent (67%) of the votes in the association are allocated or any smaller majority the declaration specifies. To the extent the procedures and requirements for amendment in the declaration conflict with the provisions of this subsection, this subsection shall control with respect to any amendment to provide that this Chapter applies to that planned community.
(e) This Chapter does not apply to planned communities or lots located outside this State. (1998-199, s. 1; 2002-112, s. 2; 2004-109, s. 3; 2005-214, s. 1; 2005-422, s. 9; 2006-226, s. 15(a); 2013-34, s. 6; 2014-57, s. 1.)

You see it does apply with regards to certain sections because you are a "Planned Community" by virtue of the "Restrictions" filed with your County Records and attached to your property title. Even if filed prior to 1999 ... "unless" your documents expressly provides to the contrary. Therefore, does your documents expressly state they "shall not" be subjected to your State Law under 47F???


You state “You see it does apply with regards to certain sections because you are a "Planned Community" by virtue of the "Restrictions" filed with your County Records and attached to your property title.”

There were restrictions filed with our county records and attached to our property title, but nothing in the restrictions referees to a Planned Community or HOA. However, our documents do not expressly state they "shall not" be subjected to NC State Law under 47F.

As a sanity test, consider the person who wants to buy some property, but refuses to buy anything that has a HOA or has the potential to have a HOA without his agreement. He finds some property in a subdivision he likes and sees that there are restrictive covenants. He reads them carefully to be sure that they don’t contain restrictions that he doesn’t accept, and that they don’t contain any reference to a HOA. With your interpretation of 47F, he still is part of a planned community and may be subject to a HOA without his consent. I sometimes question the logic of a law, but this is ridiculous!

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
No entering into a contract. It sounds like your neighbors made one up already. Not sure how to explain best to make sense. A contract doesn't have to be formal to be binding. You could write an agreement or a check on toilet paper. Contracts can be even verbal. In your case, your HOA is enacting it's own kind of contract via those written by-laws. It's a kind of "Fake it to you make it" kind of thing.

I would ask a lawyer for a formal answer. However, a developer isn't doing much more than your HOA is doing. They draft up the same documentation. They just put it on file at the courthouse. Believe you can even buy some of these documents at Office Depot. It's in the area of off the shelf lease or Will agreements. It's like $20 and some come with a CD. Do it yourself approach with all the paperwork. Insert lawyer here if needed.

Former HOA President
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GaryM15 on 08/25/2017 6:14 PM
Posted By JanetB2 on 08/25/2017 8:29 AM
Your statute definitions state:

(4) "Common elements" means any real estate within a planned community owned or leased by the association, other than a lot.


JanetB2,
Thanks for your interest.

First, let me state that there are no common elements as defined as “any real estate within a planned community owned or leased by the association, other than a lot.”

There are four corner lots that contain entrance decorations. These decorations are stonework, trees, shrubs, and signs. They were in place before any lots were sold. When these lots were sold, there was not any homeowners association, imaginary or real. With what you stated I would agree you at the time the Covenants were filed that you were just a "Planned Community". I believe that these decorations became the property of the individual lot owners. You either need to go to your local County Records or your local government Planning Department and have them pull the subdivision Plat. This document will show for sure if the entrance areas are owned by particular lot owners or if potentially is noted as "common area property". I am 100% sure that that this property is not owned by the HOA. What is your proof??? Do you currently have the Plat showing the information? The HOA did not exist when this property was sold to the individual lot owners.Maybe not at that time, but your legislators designated all Planned Communities to be subject to all or only certain parts of your HOA statute when they passed the law.

After the lots were sold, a few of the homeowners wrote a set of bylaws and called them Homeowner Association By-Laws. Which is potentially fine in order to conduct business for the Planned Community No legal organization was ever formed. While in many cases it is recommended to set up as a non-profit corporation ... it is not required. Meetings were held, and officers were elected. The developer turned responsibility of the architectural committee over to the officers of the homeowners association.

The primary function of the homeowners association is to maintain the entrance decorations. Yep ... which I am starting to believe is potentially noted on a plat as "common area property" or as a "out lot" probably owned by the association. The officers estimate the annual expenses (approximately $10,000), assess each of our twenty-nine homeowner their share, and contract for the maintenance of the front entrance decorations. They have contracted with a landscaping company to do maintenance on the entrance decorations and they have signed an easement with the entrance lot owners so the landscape company has access to the decorations. They have bought liability insurance for the HOA, and insurance for the entrance decorations (valued at $50,000), which they don’t own. I believe that the HOA is imaginary, and has no legal ability to enter into a contract. It is definately not imaginary ... as I have already showed per your State Statute. Your legislators automatically made all Planned Communities into essentially HOA's when they passed the law; however, they did leave the Planned Communities two options: 1) you can vote to amend your CCR's if you want to opt out of complying with the few sections the the law as noted in the statute, or 2) the owners can vote to have the Planned Community be subject to ALL of the sections of the statute.

GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/25/2017 3:04 PM
I believe this to be a real HOA. Gwen has issues with HOA's so I would take that opinion for what it's worth. No offense. Anytime a HOA has the opportunity to no longer be one, there is Gwen....

Confused. You say your HOA has by-laws and then covenants? So what does not make this a real HOA? What document or statement do you have to see that says "We are HOA?" that you feel you are missing? By-laws are usually internal HOA documents. They don't have to be filed in many states.

Keep in mind that contracts don't have to be as "fancy" as you may think. The law may view the fact that your neighbors have agreed to live by a set of by-laws as a contract. I have heard of some HOA's just having ACC documentation only. Still enforceable.

HOA's usually have 3 documents: By-laws, Covenant & Restrictions, and Articles of Incorporation. Sometimes Archectual control (ACC) documents. If not incorporated, then those documents don't exist. Not every HOA has to be incorporated. Doesn't mean one can't enforce rules or collect assessments. It just means your not incorporated. Which can lead to more liabilities onto the members.

"Confused. You say your HOA has by-laws and then covenants?"

The property deed has reference to covenants, properly recorded and enforceable. The covenants do not make any reference to a HOA.

Our so-called HOA has a set of well written set of bylaws. They cover elections, and organizational structure of our so-called homeowners association. They were written by a few of the homeowners, and distributed to the others, with the implication that they were binding. However, I believe that they have no significance to anyone outside of our group of homeowners. I believe that our so-called HOA is not a legal entity.

Membership in a legal HOA is mandatory. It has the power to assess homeowners, charge late fees, and even foreclose on property for non-payment. That doesn't happen simply because some of the homeowners write a set of bylaws. There must be a legal entity established, with the homeowner’s contractual consent. I can't find any such document.
GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/25/2017 6:27 PM
No entering into a contract. It sounds like your neighbors made one up already. Not sure how to explain best to make sense. A contract doesn't have to be formal to be binding. You could write an agreement or a check on toilet paper. Contracts can be even verbal. In your case, your HOA is enacting it's own kind of contract via those written by-laws. It's a kind of "Fake it to you make it" kind of thing.

I would ask a lawyer for a formal answer. However, a developer isn't doing much more than your HOA is doing. They draft up the same documentation. They just put it on file at the courthouse. Believe you can even buy some of these documents at Office Depot. It's in the area of off the shelf lease or Will agreements. It's like $20 and some come with a CD. Do it yourself approach with all the paperwork. Insert lawyer here if needed.

A contract, no matter how informal, must be agreed to by both parties. "Well I thought he agreed to this" or "Well he didn't object" isn't binding, even if the agreement is recorded with the county.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here