To fight HOA board (I'm on) or not

Started by JonathanR1 • 18 replies • 1021 views

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JonathanR1 (Georgia)
Posts: 54

Posted:

Hi all. In another thread, I was basically convinced that we have a ton of problems with our HOA. 1) The President is pushing through action without meetings by simply waiting for a majority vote on issues decided through email (our covenants/state laws do not explicitly allow this). 2) He is the only one really proposing where we spend our money, and no debate is occurring for big projects. 3) The President is not a homeowner (his brother is), although whether GA law allows this seems iffy at the moment. 4) Him, the VP, and secretary are friends on a 7 person board, and the other 3 (i.e., excluding me) members are pretty much members in name only and don't care much it seems. 5) Management company rep seems incompetent and doesn't seem to know basic things about GA Code pertaining to HOAs or the very idea of investing.

My question, as treasurer, should I even bother trying to fight to get our HOA back onto the path that considers financial aspects and actually doing things correctly in terms of meetings/voting/membership? Should I just resign?

LV (South Carolina)
Posts: 38

Posted:

Get your covenants and understand them fully. Usually electronic voting requires a unanimous vote. When you mention your management company, why don't you hold them accountable? Call the senior most person at the mgmt company and let them know what you are experiencing. How can the President not be a homeowner? This is insane.

I would go to the management company and notify them that your rep is going against what your CCR's are stating. There is a conflict and it needs to be rectified. You should also talk to the other board members as well. Make them accountable and let everyone know during open board meetings what the issues are. You need to be transparent with the community. That is the best policy.

JonathanR1 (Georgia)
Posts: 54

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LV on 08/23/2017 12:13 PM
Get your covenants and understand them fully. Usually electronic voting requires a unanimous vote. When you mention your management company, why don't you hold them accountable? Call the senior most person at the mgmt company and let them know what you are experiencing. How can the President not be a homeowner? This is insane.

I would go to the management company and notify them that your rep is going against what your CCR's are stating. There is a conflict and it needs to be rectified. You should also talk to the other board members as well. Make them accountable and let everyone know during open board meetings what the issues are. You need to be transparent with the community. That is the best policy.

Our covenants are pretty short, and with the help of this community, I think I've come to understand them fairly well in terms of what are important sections.

I also don't want to immediately jump over our rep's head. I think sitting down with her (and her lawyer) might be best as a start.

Yeah, the President isn't a homeowner. Sigh.

I know that there are many things wrong here, and there are just as many actions for me to pursue. However, my real question here is whether this is worth the fight. I'm finishing my PhD, have a job, and own/manage 4 properties. My free time is valuable, so I wanted to build on the experience of this community to help me figure out if the time investment is worth it. What do I have to gain? What do I have to lose? Pros/cons.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Well it depends if you can live with your own apathy or not? Your basically saying "Do I assert my right as a homeowner to be involved in my community or do I just leave it alone to let someone else run it?" You want change no one else is going to do it but you.

My HOA the President was a con-man out for himself. I ran and won. Was able to straighten out the HOA with a lot of work and determination. In the end, I couldn't sit and just keep throwing my money into hat of a scumbag.

Former HOA President

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

..... Yeah, the President isn't a homeowner. Sigh. .....

YOUR HOA's corporate bylaws determine who may be a director. 'Most' specify members only, some do NOT.

? Have you read them ?

JonathanR1 (Georgia)
Posts: 54

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PitA on 08/24/2017 10:26 AM

..... Yeah, the President isn't a homeowner. Sigh. .....

YOUR HOA's corporate bylaws determine who may be a director. 'Most' specify members only, some do NOT.

? Have you read them ?

Yes, I have read them. No, they do not specify who can be a director.

JonathanR1 (Georgia)
Posts: 54

Posted:

The only thing I can really see that could dictate whether a director has to be a member is the following:

"4.1 Number: The affairs of the Association shall be managed by an initial Board of three (3) directors, who need not be Members of the Association. Once the control of the Association passes to the Members as provided in the Declaration, the affairs of the Association shall be managed by a Board of not less than three (3) nor more than nine (9) directors.

4.2 Election by Members. At the first annual meeting after control of the Association has passed to the Membership, the Members shall elect three (3) directors to serve until the next annual meeting. The nuumber of directors may be increased by amendment to this provision by the By-Laws"

Does the language in 4.1 indicate that members can be anyone?

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonathanR1 on 08/24/2017 10:31 AM

Posted By PitA on 08/24/2017 10:26 AM

..... Yeah, the President isn't a homeowner. Sigh. .....

YOUR HOA's corporate bylaws determine who may be a director. 'Most' specify members only, some do NOT.

? Have you read them ?

Yes, I have read them. No, they do not specify who can be a director.

Then the president CAN serve on the BOD.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

just read further down / or our posts crossed

4.1 Number: The affairs of the Association shall be managed by an initial Board of three (3) directors, who need not be Members of the Association.

picture Homer Simpson

DO'H

JonathanR1 (Georgia)
Posts: 54

Posted:

Right, but I was wondering if that board was the board simply for when the development was being established and before control over the HOA was handed over to the members. I can easily imagine the initial board being composed of non-owners/members when the development is being built.

GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669

Posted:

One cannot re-interpret what is written in plain language. Your Bylaws are clear. Non-members can serve on the board, IMO a changeworthy bylaw.

However, you have daylight-yourself who is an officer and three other directors who are presently apathetic. I would try to light a fire under their sit-upons. Together, you are a quorum and control the board. There may never again be an opportunity to turn the tide. You have the ammunition that generally gets peoples' attention--the financials.

If you believe there is wrongdoing, there are options to work from within but when all efforts are exhausted-as well as your patience-you must resign to protect yourself. Your attorney would advise you to put any concerns in writing to the Board and thereafter resign, in writing, to the Board stating your specific reason.

HomE (Washington)
Posts: 29

Posted:

Have you looked at state law. Most states do give a framework for these rules. In some states, board members have to be owners. I'd double check the state laws. They might supplement for rules for which you're missing.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Gwen's right--as we've tried to encourage you elsewhere.

JonathanR1 (Georgia)
Posts: 54

Posted:

Yes, there are things I can do further research on and areas where they are clearly in violation of the law and all that.

However, my question is simply whether it's worth fighting over in everyone's opinion. What are the pros/cons of all of this?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonathanR1 on 08/23/2017 11:55 AM

My question, as treasurer, should I even bother trying to fight to get our HOA back onto the path that considers financial aspects and actually doing things correctly in terms of meetings/voting/membership? Should I just resign?

Quote:
Posted By JonathanR1 on 08/24/2017 6:10 PM

However, my question is simply whether it's worth fighting over in everyone's opinion. What are the pros/cons of all of this?

Is it worth fighting over?

Nobody can answer that but you.

Some will fight to correct things. Some will fight for principal alone.
Some won't fight due to the cost in time, energy and money.
Some won't fight because they want someone else to do it.

Regardless of the decision, there are consequences. There are intended consequences (like having meetings and votes held properly) and unintended consequences (such as how you are portrayed to the community and those who were friends now being enemies).

You and your family are the ones who have to live with the consequences (both the intended and unintended).
You and your family are the ones who will have to devote the time, energy and money for the fight (regardless if it's a legal battle or simply a fight from within - gathering support and making changes).
Hence, it doesn't matter one iota if anyone on this site thinks it's worth it or not.
We won't be personally involved or have to live with the consequences.

THIS IS YOUR DECISION.

I will say that it's easier to change things from within vs. without.
As Treasurer, establish the budget and hold them to it.
You may be outvoted, but make them decide where the money comes from.
Perhaps others will listen and agree with you. Perhaps not.

Right now you have a vote on those things.
If you resign, you have no vote.

JonathanR1 (Georgia)
Posts: 54

Posted:

Right, I know that it's my decision, but considering this message board has more experience than I do, I think it's worth asking about. I'm sure people have had to do things like this before, and I'd be interested in hearing about things like how hard the process could be, what are the possible ramifications (things that I don't know, having never gone down this path before), what I should be on the look out for, stories of "tried it and wasted 3 months of my life because...", etc. Again, I have no experience here, and I want to draw on others' experiences to help inform my decision.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Jonathan,

When I worked to make changes within my Association it took three (3) years of educating the membership.
It took another year before I was elected to the Board.
It took another year and me doing most of the work before small changes could be seen.

Changes will occur more quickly working from within then from outside.
Changes from within will be less expensive then from the outside.
Changes will not happen overnight.
Personally, I think it will take a lot longer then three months (based on my experience).

You are already part of the decision process.
That puts you in a better position then I was when I started.

Why don't you start a list and we can add to it.

Write out the goal, options/methods to achieve that goal then list the consequences (pros and cons if you will) if the goal is achieved and for each option/method.

I will also add that you should prioritize your concerns/goals and realize you may only achieve one. Therefore, you may only want to make a list for that one goal.

JonathanR1 (Georgia)
Posts: 54

Posted:

Okay, I would say my primary goal is to put the HOA on a better path financially, with financial decisions not simply coming from the President.

To this end, I want to put a portion of our reserves into better investments (e.g., bonds). My main option is simply to present the board with data showing where we could be if we had invested properly starting 18 years ago. My issues are the following: The President has (at least I'm 95% sure) essentially provided false information in an attempt to squash this idea and refuses to sign any documents if we were to vote to implement. The pros are more money to the HOA, with the cons being a minimal amount of risk if done properly (if any).

I would like to see us follow the law by voting during meetings or obtaining the unanimous consent of the board when doing actions without meetings. The option in my mind is to simply present to the board the relevant covenants/GA code stating what we are doing is wrong. The pros: 1) We can stop how quickly we are blowing money because we are currently going through our budget based on a simple majority vote without meeting. 2) We can get all board members to be involved. 3) We'd start following GA Code/our covenants properly. Cons: 1) The president will see this as an attack on his power. 2) The Board might not really care that we're not doing things according to the law, and I'd be seen as just causing trouble.

We need to treat our HOA like a business because in my mind, that's what it is. I want us to take back control over the budgetm, for example. This would require me trying to get the board members to stop feeling like the management company is better at managing our board/HOA than we could be. I'm not sure how this can be accomplished. Pros: 1) Possibly find a new management company at a lower rate but same services. 2) Take ownership of our HOA and not have to let the management company do our work on their own schedule. Con: 1) Maybe we don't have the heart amongst all of us to actually do the work of an HOA board.

Take away de facto power from the President. I'm pretty lost here. In a sense, i feel like it becomes a popularity contest when you're dealing with 3 friends and 3 people who don't really devote much more than an email response saying "I agree" once a week if that. Pros: 1) We will probably spend a lot less money. 2) We'd have a greater variety of input as to what happens around the Association. Cons: 1) If power does get spread around, maybe everyone else on the board really doesn't care and won't want to perform their duties, which are currently simply being handled by the President because he wants to.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I started with a newsletter to the membership.

I attended every board meeting and wrote about them.
I didn't speculate. I didn't embellish.
I simply wrote what occurred and if it followed the governing docs and applicable statutes or not.
I then provided references to where others could independently verify what I wrote.
I always thanked those who served and tried to show respect.
This was the best way I could think of to make gather support.
It worked, but it took three years.

During this time, I also volunteered for various things within the Association as I wanted to demonstrate that I wanted to make changes and work from within vs. just yell about things that were wrong.

I proposed, gathered support and made amendments to the Bylaws (without being on the board).

Once on the Board, working with others, we were able to accomplish the following over the last 10 years:

Completed the Associations first reserve study (8 years after it was a requirement by statute to do one)
Gathered support from the members to increase assessments by 20% to fully fund the reserves.
Wrote policies on records retention, disclosure packages, financial issues and others.
Established and implemented procedures for requesting bids and awarding contracts.
Those procedures allowed us to renegotiated a contract saving 10K per year.
Hired an arborist to provide a 5 year plan to address trees within the development
Implemented (and just completed) the arborists plan.
Working with the County, identified, reviewed options and started to address storm water management issues

That list, which isn't complete, is nothing I intended to change. It simply occurred because I, and others, were willing to do the work to make it happen.

During this time, I still have one member who refuses to vote for me on anything.
Recently, it appears that we have ticked off a group of members who's emotions are not allowing them to discuss the issues they have (right now, it's their way or the highway).
I was called a trouble maker and other names.
My wife who worked with the wife a member had minor encounters (i.e. she had to listen to them complain at work and me complain at home).

Was it worth it?
To me, yes. I made the Association better then when I got involved.
Did I waste my time - time will tell.
However, my wife thinks my time could have been better spent (it's all about perspective).

Go back over your other threads.
I know that I, and others, were telling you some of these things then.

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