💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

CjC
Posts: 210
Posted:
Our bylaws have changed dramatically over the years. We are looking for the "original" ones from the 1960's. Do we have the right to demand them from the HOA or can you only demand the most current ones? We wants to see when specific things were changed.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
I wants to know why y'all wants to know.

Or, why not?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
If these were recorded in your county recorder's office, you might start there, although it may take quite of bit of time to pull anything from the 1960s - storage systems as well as your documents have changed quite a bit in 50 years.

Personally, I don't know why you'd want to go back that far anyway. Your neighborhood and its needs have likely changed in 50+ years and most of the people who were around at that time (and who could provide useful history) moved on years ago. Best to start with what you have right now and consider what you need to add, subtract or tweak based on current needs.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posted:
The County would be the first place to check, as was mentioned, but what's recorded at that level varies from state to state. At this point, it's likely your HOA only has the current or most recent versions of documents, not all the various versions between now and when the HOA was created, considering the age.
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 08/14/2017 10:34 AM
I wants to know why y'all wants to know.

Or, why not?

One reason I've seen is when something is defended as having "always" been on the books, when in fact it wasn't.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CjC on 08/14/2017 10:16 AM
Our bylaws have changed dramatically over the years. We are looking for the "original" ones from the 1960's. Do we have the right to demand them from the HOA or can you only demand the most current ones? We wants to see when specific things were changed.

The association might not even have those. In my state, for example, most records only need to be kept 7 years, so anything that far back could easily have been tossed. We are self-managed, and while that is mostly working out ok, I'm pretty sure there have been times during our history where records were kept poorly, and transitions where stuff was lost along the way. Unless you have had a lot better continuity than we have, I wouldn't count on everything you are looking for being available.

Does MD have an open records law for associations? Here, any member can examine and copy all HOA records per state law, you might want to resource MD HOA statutes.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
In SC, our original Covenants, ByLaws, and Rules and Regulations were filed with each deed though only the Covenants are required to be filed. We only need record any changes one time meaning not every deed gets an updated copy attached.

As I understand it, the updates get recorded under the HOA's name thus one would have to do a search on the HOA to get any changes.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CjC on 08/14/2017 10:16 AM
Our bylaws have changed dramatically over the years. We are looking for the "original" ones from the 1960's. Do we have the right to demand them from the HOA or can you only demand the most current ones? We wants to see when specific things were changed.

You can demand but do not be surprised if they do not exist. You have to live by them as they presently are or change them.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
What does it matter if it "always existed prior?" It's been changed now and recorded right? Otherwise, sounds like someone trying to grandfather something.

Former HOA President
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 08/14/2017 10:34 AM
I wants to know why y'all wants to know.

Or, why not?

Irrelevant.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 08/14/2017 12:09 PM
In my state, for example, most records only need to be kept 7 years, so anything that far back could easily have been tossed.

I think FL requires the Declaration/CCRs, the Bylaws and the Articles of association - including all amendments - be kept forever. The 7-year retention only applies to records specifically mentioned in the statutes. The governing documents conspicuously do not have the 7-year retention language.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 08/14/2017 4:30 PM
Posted By DouglasK1 on 08/14/2017 12:09 PM
In my state, for example, most records only need to be kept 7 years, so anything that far back could easily have been tossed.

I think FL requires the Declaration/CCRs, the Bylaws and the Articles of association - including all amendments - be kept forever. The 7-year retention only applies to records specifically mentioned in the statutes. The governing documents conspicuously do not have the 7-year retention language.

Thanks, I was going from memory when I probably should have checked. Our association is only about 20 years old and continuity of documentation has been a problem, with the OPs association going back to the 60s, I could see that things that should be there might not be.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
CjC
Posts: 210
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimM11 on 08/14/2017 11:38 AM
Posted By PitA on 08/14/2017 10:34 AM
I wants to know why y'all wants to know.

Or, why not?


One reason I've seen is when something is defended as having "always" been on the books, when in fact it wasn't.

You hit the nail on the head. They say "it's always been that way" and We want to go through old bylaws to see when wording was changed and when it was approved. Unfortunately the development is over 40 years old and the records are in bound books, but the ladies at the courthouse are very accommodating to me sitting there and reading old records.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Our bylaws have a section that deals with changing the bylaws. They can be changed at anytime by the BOD affirmative vote. But there must be a note placed in the margin next to the section that is being changed. The note must have the location of the new text, and also have the date of the change. With this being the case, I doubt our current bylaws are actually recorded.
CjC
Posts: 210
Posted:
I just went and found the original bylaws, surprisingly, no date or signatures on it at all. I know they are the original since it is listed first on the HOA Recordation book.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here