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IndieS (Colorado)
Posts: 79
Posted:
Our HOA issued their last annual meeting minutes in early 2017, so the next annual meeting will not be conducted until early 2018. The 2017 annual meeting minutes, which were reviewed by a previous board, contained language that indicates an event took place in the neighborhood between a board member and a homeowner which resulted in criminal charges against the homeowner. The previous board evidently felt that this information was necessary to justify their hiring of a security guard.

There is a new board now, and the issue between the two community members has resolved itself, in that all charges were dropped against the homeowner. A few homes are now for sale in the community, and some of the owners of these homes are asking that the comment about the reason for the hiring of the guard be expunged from the 2017 annual meeting minutes, as they feel that information would cause potential buyers to pass on their homes.

I understand that the annual meeting minutes would normally be amended in 2018, if there were a vote to do so, but I am also concerned about the potential liability to the HOA. While the information in the minutes was correct at the time it was included in the minutes, the alleged crime was under investigation at that time, and the outcome was that all charges were dropped. Personally, I would not have included that information in the minutes, and would have merely listed the guard as present at the meeting. But that ship has already sailed.

Are there any remedies at this time? I am concerned that we could be exposing the HOA to potential lawsuits if the homeowners trying to sell their properties receive feedback that the reason a potential buyer passed on their home was due to the depiction of crime in the community. Can the Board vote to expunge the offending sentence from the previous minutes? Can the board, prior to the next annual meeting, ask the community to vote to remove this information from the minutes?

Thanks in advance.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Minutes are a record of what occurred.
They should be corrected for errors.
They should not be corrected to save face, provide a different perspective or for any other reason but to correct errors of what occurred at the meeting.

My suggestion, add a memorandum to the minutes, dated today, saying that issues were resolved peacefully and the guard mentioned in the minutes is no longer being utilized.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 08/09/2017 5:39 PM
Minutes are a record of what occurred.
They should be corrected for errors.
They should not be corrected to save face, provide a different perspective or for any other reason but to correct errors of what occurred at the meeting.

My suggestion, add a memorandum to the minutes, dated today, saying that issues were resolved peacefully and the guard mentioned in the minutes is no longer being utilized.


I agree with Tim. Keep in mind down the road if an HOA is ever sued the past meeting minutes are documents which will be requested. If they have in future been tampered with that could royally hurt your HOA. As Tim stated I would issue a current memorandum regarding the issue.
IndieS (Colorado)
Posts: 79
Posted:
Thanks for the insights. I felt that the information about the event between two homeowners should have never been included in the annual minutes, as that subject was not discussed at the annual meeting, nor did it take place at the annual meeting. But your suggestions resolves the issue as neatly as possible. Thanks again.
IndieS (Colorado)
Posts: 79
Posted:
I'm assuming this memorandum would be an attachment to the annual meeting minutes in question? Should the memorandum be distributed to the membership now, or attached to the 2017 annual meeting minutes and discussed at the 2018 annual meeting? Thanks.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Minutes are not official until they are approved at a future meeting. Until such time as they are approved they may be corrected.
IndieS (Colorado)
Posts: 79
Posted:
Ugh. Now what? I (assume) the Board votes to amend the current 2017 minutes, and if we decide to remove the offending sentence, do we then distribute the amended version to the community? If an outside agent or group has a valid reason to request a copy of the most recent annual minutes, do they get a copy of the original minutes and the amended minutes?
IndieS (Colorado)
Posts: 79
Posted:
(The previous board already sent a copy of the 2017 annual meeting minutes to the community.)
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerB on 08/10/2017 11:34 AM
Minutes are not official until they are approved at a future meeting. Until such time as they are approved they may be corrected.

This would be my answer also. What is being circulated is unapproved, not official minutes. Come the mmeeting in 2018, have the BOD remove the statement prior to approving the 2017 Minutes.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Agree with others, what has been sent out already are "unapproved minutes". They can be corrected at the next meeting before being approved. Simple, actually.
IndieS (Colorado)
Posts: 79
Posted:
Waiting until the next annual meeting is the concern. We have homeowners who are in the process of selling their properties, who either want the language concerning the altercation removed from the existing but unapproved minutes, or want a memorandum issued which indicates all criminal charges were dropped. So waiting until the next meeting, which is 6 months away, is not an acceptable option to them.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By IndieS on 08/10/2017 3:09 PM

So waiting until the next meeting, which is 6 months away, is not an acceptable option to them.

However, that is the correct procedure. The only other way would be as an action without meeting which requires 100% agreement from all owners (which will likely take more then 6 months to get).

This is the reason I suggested adding a memorandum to the draft minutes.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Why? Is there a law in Colorado that prospective purchasers need to get copies of the unapproved minutes of past meetings?

If your association follows Roberts Rules, take a look at what Roberts says about approving the minutes of meetings where there is substantial calendar time between any two meetings. If I remember correctly (I can't look it up right now) if meetings are held less frequently than quarterly, it's appropriate to approve the minutes BEFORE the next regularly scheduled meeting. The idea is to approve them before so much time has passed that the meeting is no longer fresh in people's minds and participants might reasonably forget what actually took place at the meeting.

Maybe you could do that. Hold a special meeting with a single agenda item: To approve the minutes of the meeting held on ___ __, 2016. Make the corrections and approve the result.
IndieS (Colorado)
Posts: 79
Posted:
Thank you all for the time you have willingly given to help me. I have been the HOA Secretary for 6 months, and this is all new territory for me.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 08/10/2017 3:23 PM
Why? Is there a law in Colorado that prospective purchasers need to get copies of the unapproved minutes of past meetings?

If your association follows Roberts Rules, take a look at what Roberts says about approving the minutes of meetings where there is substantial calendar time between any two meetings. If I remember correctly (I can't look it up right now) if meetings are held less frequently than quarterly, it's appropriate to approve the minutes BEFORE the next regularly scheduled meeting. The idea is to approve them before so much time has passed that the meeting is no longer fresh in people's minds and participants might reasonably forget what actually took place at the meeting.

Maybe you could do that. Hold a special meeting with a single agenda item: To approve the minutes of the meeting held on ___ __, 2016. Make the corrections and approve the result.

Good suggestion. Hold a BOD Meeting and modify the Minutes then accept them. Then mail them out explaining there was some confusion but here are the "correct" minutes".
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 08/10/2017 3:23 PM
Why? Is there a law in Colorado that prospective purchasers need to get copies of the unapproved minutes of past meetings?


Colorado states:

(b) Upon request, the seller shall either provide to the buyer or authorize the unit owners' association to provide to the buyer, upon payment of the association's usual fee pursuant to section 38-33.3-317 (4), all of the common interest community's governing documents and financial documents, as listed in the most recent available version of the contract to buy and sell real estate promulgated by the real estate commission as of the date of the contract

When we purchased our new home this last year I listed in the contract the documents I wanted copies of above and beyond the governing documents and financial documents. The most recent annual membership meeting minutes did have a "draft" watermark as would be approved at the next upcoming annual meeting. Anyone smart enough to do their proper homework would not only get the governing documents and financials, but also 2-3 years of annual meeting minutes and 1-2 years of BOD minutes. Without those minutes you potentially do not know if the owner had failed to disclose a potential upcoming issue which could lead to a near future $$$ special assessment.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Interesting, Janet. Does, "all of the common interest community's governing documents and financial documents," include meeting minutes? Florida law is similar but it says prospective purchasers are only entitled to the governing documents and the yearly financial report. They are not entitled to have access to all of an association's official records. Meeting minutes ARE included in the definition of "official records" but I think (not an atty) only "approved minutes" would be considered official.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 08/11/2017 12:02 PM
Interesting, Janet. Does, "all of the common interest community's governing documents and financial documents," include meeting minutes? Florida law is similar but it says prospective purchasers are only entitled to the governing documents and the yearly financial report. They are not entitled to have access to all of an association's official records. Meeting minutes ARE included in the definition of "official records" but I think (not an atty) only "approved minutes" would be considered official.

The State Law requires governing documents and financials as a MUST to be provided. However, as I noted a Buyer can incorporate in the contract to purchase a request for other documents. Personally I would not purchase in an HOA unless the documents I noted above as requested were provided. Those minutes give "inside" HOA information which the governing documents and financials may not provide. They potentially can tell you if it is a well ran HOA vs one with potential issues.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Draft (unapproved) minutes are not official HOA records. No minutes should be distributed to anyone until approved (in this case) by the Owners. So I don't think the board can amend these minutes, only the Owners.

The exception would be if Assoc. docs or l state laws say that people can have draft minutes. In Ca, for instance, Owners can have draft minutes 30 days after the meeting.

But this is a really good lesson about why only actions proposed and taken should be in the minutes.
IndieS (Colorado)
Posts: 79
Posted:
I'm new to the board and uneducated about these issues. Whether the board was supposed to release the minutes of the annual meeting or not, the old board did so within 30 days of the 2017 annual meeting. The membership votes to accept or decline the minutes as presented. The membership currently has a copy of the draft minutes. They won't vote on them until 2018. This does seem inefficient. Perhaps we should vote on them sooner or release them later. There is nothing in our bylaws or other documents which discusses this issue.

For the time being, when asked, we will release only the last approved copy of minutes as the official minutes. The 2016 minutes weren't much better when depicting our community, but at least they didn't discuss a pending legal issue.

To everyone who helped with this topic -- thank you.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By IndieS on 08/14/2017 1:35 PM
I'm new to the board and uneducated about these issues. Whether the board was supposed to release the minutes of the annual meeting or not, the old board did so within 30 days of the 2017 annual meeting. The membership votes to accept or decline the minutes as presented. The membership currently has a copy of the draft minutes. They won't vote on them until 2018. This does seem inefficient. Perhaps we should vote on them sooner or release them later. There is nothing in our bylaws or other documents which discusses this issue.

For the time being, when asked, we will release only the last approved copy of minutes as the official minutes. The 2016 minutes weren't much better when depicting our community, but at least they didn't discuss a pending legal issue.

To everyone who helped with this topic -- thank you.

Indie ... As you stated you are new so here is HOA 101:

Board Meetings: Minutes are done after each BOD meeting and the BOD approves the prior minutes at the next BOD meeting. HOA's will have BOD meetings monthly, quarterly, bi-annually, etc. depending on the size and scope of the HOA as needed. Prior meeting minutes are approved at the next BOD meeting.

Membership Meetings: These are required to be held at least annually. The meeting minutes are generally approved "by the membership" at the next annual meeting. Generally the prior meeting minutes are completed as a "draft" and sent to members within potentially 30 days, so that any corrections can be noted while the event is fresh on everyone's mind. These generally stay in "draft" form until the next Annual Meeting at which time the entire membership approves. While you might think it is potentially inefficient ... if done properly it is actually very efficient. If you want to as you are proposing to potentially vote on them sooner ... would require another meeting of the homeowners to be called, meeting quorum requirements, and the added costs of notifying the owners of the meeting.

If I was purchasing a property and asked for your HOA records and you did not provide me with a "draft" of the not yet approved minutes ... especially if they noted an pending legal issue ... I potentially could hang you out to dry.
IndieS (Colorado)
Posts: 79
Posted:
Ugh. The pending legal issue was resolved, with all charges dropped. Looks like a court order is coming our way to purge the annual meeting minutes of all mention of the matter. Any thoughts on the best approach? Should we amend the minutes as a board, but not present them until the next annual meeting? In the meantime, should we release the draft minutes, then correct that draft when the minutes are corrected per legal requirement. We have an extremely small budget and used to have some very vindictive people on the last board. Hiring attorneys generally uses up the entire annual dues (very reasonable) on one lot and there aren't too many of us.
IndieS (Colorado)
Posts: 79
Posted:
I meant to say,"In the meantime, should we release the draft minutes to requesting parties, then update those draft minutes when they are corrected per legal requirement."
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
I would amend after the Court order. If the Court is going to require no mention of the item you are talking about then it would be best for the Board to follow the Court order and then just have a watermark stating draft across the document in case copies are ever asked for and printed between now and your next Annual Meeting. After they are approved by the memberhip at the next Annual Meeting, then remove the "draft" watermark on this year's minutes and put on next year's minutes after the next meeting.
IndieS (Colorado)
Posts: 79
Posted:
Thank you.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By IndieS on 08/25/2017 7:18 PM
Thank you.

You are most welcome. As a newbie you are doing awesome for your association!!!

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