ErinA1 (Illinois)
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
Looking for specific advise with Illinois statute. Can BOD adopt a new rule/regulation regarding no parking of vehicles with company logos in driveway if this is not outlined in the governing docs?
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Illinois - Advertisement on vehicles/Rules & Regs
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MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
This would fall inline with "commercial vehicles". I would start with that. Commercial vehicles don't have to be trucks or large vehicles. They can be as simple as a magnet smacked on the side of a car/truck. The HOA may already have something on commercial vehicles. Otherwise, they could most likely put something in their rules on it. It's just will you have a fining schedule to cover such things?
Former HOA President
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Can Board create such rules, YES, should they NO. My first responsibility as a Board members should be to ensure that everyone is current on their assessments. Our economy has changed significantly since these documents were first boilerplated.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I agree with both Richard and Melissa.
I suspect your CC&Rs specify no commercial vehicles.
Many Associations define commercial vehicles as those having signage.
Personally, I don't care if the realtor has a sign on their vehicle. However, others do.
As Richard points out, times change.
Each Association has to decide for themselves (at this point anyway).
I suspect your CC&Rs specify no commercial vehicles.
Many Associations define commercial vehicles as those having signage.
Personally, I don't care if the realtor has a sign on their vehicle. However, others do.
As Richard points out, times change.
Each Association has to decide for themselves (at this point anyway).
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posts: 354
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ErinA1 on 08/07/2017 6:10 PM
Looking for specific advise with Illinois statute. Can BOD adopt a new rule/regulation regarding no parking of vehicles with company logos in driveway if this is not outlined in the governing docs?
Looking for specific advise with Illinois statute. Can BOD adopt a new rule/regulation regarding no parking of vehicles with company logos in driveway if this is not outlined in the governing docs?
That would require careful wording, considering virtually every vehicle has a company logo on it somewhere...
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ErinA1 on 08/07/2017 6:10 PM
Looking for specific advise with Illinois statute. Can BOD adopt a new rule/regulation regarding no parking of vehicles with company logos in driveway if this is not outlined in the governing docs?
Looking for specific advise with Illinois statute. Can BOD adopt a new rule/regulation regarding no parking of vehicles with company logos in driveway if this is not outlined in the governing docs?
If something is not in my HOA's governing documents, then I will not support creating a rule for it.
But what is going on? Why is someone so bothered by say a van with a company logo being parked in a driveway?
ErinA1 (Illinois)
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
Board created a new rule that "prohibits" any vehicle with a company logo on it from parking on the driveway - there is a van that advertises his business that under this rule can't park anywhere since our streets prohibit overnight parking. Now the resident doesn't have a place to park his vehicle.
ErinA1 (Illinois)
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
Here is exact verbiage:
D-plates or higher vehicles, including buses, taxis, any commercial vehicle, any industrial vehicle, any utility vehicle, or any vehicle containing advertisement including trailers are not permitted.
Can we argue all vehicles have ads on them? And this request is unreasonable in nature?
D-plates or higher vehicles, including buses, taxis, any commercial vehicle, any industrial vehicle, any utility vehicle, or any vehicle containing advertisement including trailers are not permitted.
Can we argue all vehicles have ads on them? And this request is unreasonable in nature?
ErinA1 (Illinois)
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
Here is exact verbiage:
D-plates or higher vehicles, including buses, taxis, any commercial vehicle, any industrial vehicle, any utility vehicle, or any vehicle containing advertisement including trailers are not permitted.
Can we argue all vehicles have ads on them? And this request is unreasonable in nature?
D-plates or higher vehicles, including buses, taxis, any commercial vehicle, any industrial vehicle, any utility vehicle, or any vehicle containing advertisement including trailers are not permitted.
Can we argue all vehicles have ads on them? And this request is unreasonable in nature?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Erin'
We went around on this in my last HOA. Our CCR's had a ban on overnight parking of commercial vehicles even in driveways. We ruled any signage on any vehicle made it a commercial vehicle regardless of various type vehicle registrations the state had.
We had several cases. One was two identical mini-vans. One had a sign on the door saying Airport Shuttle. The signed one was ruled commercial. Another was a Ford Explorer with a realtors company name and phone number on the rear window. We ruled it commercial. That realtor was upset and went after us as a State Highway Patrolman parked his police cruiser in his driveway and the realtor wanted it ruled commercial due to the signage. We passed a rule that signage did not apply to public safety vehicles. We had one owner that had a minivan with a small company sign on the doors. He got magnetic covers to cover the signs. That was fine.
We went around on this in my last HOA. Our CCR's had a ban on overnight parking of commercial vehicles even in driveways. We ruled any signage on any vehicle made it a commercial vehicle regardless of various type vehicle registrations the state had.
We had several cases. One was two identical mini-vans. One had a sign on the door saying Airport Shuttle. The signed one was ruled commercial. Another was a Ford Explorer with a realtors company name and phone number on the rear window. We ruled it commercial. That realtor was upset and went after us as a State Highway Patrolman parked his police cruiser in his driveway and the realtor wanted it ruled commercial due to the signage. We passed a rule that signage did not apply to public safety vehicles. We had one owner that had a minivan with a small company sign on the doors. He got magnetic covers to cover the signs. That was fine.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Erin
We had one person argue that as an automobile had manufacturer's badges on it and also a dealers name decal, that in itself was commercial so all vehicles were commercial. We said see you in court. They went away.
We had one person argue that as an automobile had manufacturer's badges on it and also a dealers name decal, that in itself was commercial so all vehicles were commercial. We said see you in court. They went away.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/08/2017 1:54 PM
Erin'
We went around on this in my last HOA. Our CCR's had a ban on overnight parking of commercial vehicles even in driveways. We ruled any signage on any vehicle made it a commercial vehicle regardless of various type vehicle registrations the state had.
We had several cases. One was two identical mini-vans. One had a sign on the door saying Airport Shuttle. The signed one was ruled commercial. Another was a Ford Explorer with a realtors company name and phone number on the rear window. We ruled it commercial. That realtor was upset and went after us as a State Highway Patrolman parked his police cruiser in his driveway and the realtor wanted it ruled commercial due to the signage. We passed a rule that signage did not apply to public safety vehicles. We had one owner that had a minivan with a small company sign on the doors. He got magnetic covers to cover the signs. That was fine.
Erin'
We went around on this in my last HOA. Our CCR's had a ban on overnight parking of commercial vehicles even in driveways. We ruled any signage on any vehicle made it a commercial vehicle regardless of various type vehicle registrations the state had.
We had several cases. One was two identical mini-vans. One had a sign on the door saying Airport Shuttle. The signed one was ruled commercial. Another was a Ford Explorer with a realtors company name and phone number on the rear window. We ruled it commercial. That realtor was upset and went after us as a State Highway Patrolman parked his police cruiser in his driveway and the realtor wanted it ruled commercial due to the signage. We passed a rule that signage did not apply to public safety vehicles. We had one owner that had a minivan with a small company sign on the doors. He got magnetic covers to cover the signs. That was fine.
Quote:
Posted By ErinA1 on 08/08/2017 1:17 PM
Board created a new rule that "prohibits" any vehicle with a company logo on it from parking on the driveway - there is a van that advertises his business that under this rule can't park anywhere since our streets prohibit overnight parking. Now the resident doesn't have a place to park his vehicle.
Board created a new rule that "prohibits" any vehicle with a company logo on it from parking on the driveway - there is a van that advertises his business that under this rule can't park anywhere since our streets prohibit overnight parking. Now the resident doesn't have a place to park his vehicle.
If it's not in the CC&R's then I don't see how they can do this. You need to contact an attorney.
I have never understood how a sign on the door of a passenger car or light truck can cause such a ruckus. I can see big commercial trucks and cranes, but a minivan with a sign on the door? That's almost discriminating against business owners.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
They cause a ruckus because they look like crap when you get enough of them. Our CCRs prohibit commercial vehicles, too, and among our efforts lately to amend our governing documents we're revising the language on vehicles and parking. We're looking to bring our CCRs into the 21st century when it comes to vehicles, but we are strengthening the language that prohibits commercial vehicles with signage. Many of us don't want the neighborhood to look like an industrial park or an office strip mall.
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posts: 354
Posted:
Put me with the "not sure why this is an issue" crowd. To me, this is up there with banning pickup trucks, which I've heard of HOAs in other states doing, but would never fly in the Midwest. Plus, text is text whether it's promoting a private business or government agency.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimM11 on 08/08/2017 8:44 PM
Plus, text is text whether it's promoting a private business or government agency.
Plus, text is text whether it's promoting a private business or government agency.
I disagree.
We had an issue where an animal control vehicle was parked overnight. The Association received a complaint due to the "advertising" that was on the vehicle. After much discussion, we concluded that government vehicles with signage (police car, etc.) is identifying, not advertising.
Here is an article that can explain it better:
http://www.myfloridalegal.com/ago.nsf/Opinions/0D1E173CAF5568FF852570220059A538
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posts: 354
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 08/09/2017 3:13 PM
Posted By TimM11 on 08/08/2017 8:44 PM
Plus, text is text whether it's promoting a private business or government agency.
Plus, text is text whether it's promoting a private business or government agency.
I disagree.
We had an issue where an animal control vehicle was parked overnight. The Association received a complaint due to the "advertising" that was on the vehicle. After much discussion, we concluded that government vehicles with signage (police car, etc.) is identifying, not advertising.
Here is an article that can explain it better:
http://www.myfloridalegal.com/ago.nsf/Opinions/0D1E173CAF5568FF852570220059A538
That's a good article, but it's not really refuting my position. I don't think government vehicle signage is the same thing as commercial signage. I'm saying that commercial signage shouldn't matter if it's a vehicle that otherwise wouldn't be prohibited.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posts: 724
Posted:
The legal definition of a commercial vehicle is a vehicle that is registered with the DMV as a commercial vehicle. Not a minivan with a "sally's nail salon" sticker on the side of it.
If you want to ban vehicles with stickers on them, go ahead and try. I think it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. A neighborhood looking badly because vehicles have stickers on the side? No way.
If you want to ban vehicles with stickers on them, go ahead and try. I think it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. A neighborhood looking badly because vehicles have stickers on the side? No way.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimM11 on 08/09/2017 4:57 PM
That's a good article, but it's not really refuting my position. I don't think government vehicle signage is the same thing as commercial signage. I'm saying that commercial signage shouldn't matter if it's a vehicle that otherwise wouldn't be prohibited.
That's a good article, but it's not really refuting my position. I don't think government vehicle signage is the same thing as commercial signage. I'm saying that commercial signage shouldn't matter if it's a vehicle that otherwise wouldn't be prohibited.
Ahh, I misunderstood what you were posting.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ErinA1 on 08/08/2017 1:17 PM
Board created a new rule that "prohibits" any vehicle with a company logo on it from parking on the driveway - there is a van that advertises his business that under this rule can't park anywhere since our streets prohibit overnight parking. Now the resident doesn't have a place to park his vehicle.
Board created a new rule that "prohibits" any vehicle with a company logo on it from parking on the driveway - there is a van that advertises his business that under this rule can't park anywhere since our streets prohibit overnight parking. Now the resident doesn't have a place to park his vehicle.
Here is where your BOD can have an issue ... if the regulation was in the CCR''s which is attached to property titles and agreed to by all owners prior to their purchase it would have very high probability of standing up in a Court of Law. However, if the small handful of owners (potentially 3-9) decided among themselves to "impose" a Rule and Regulations upon other owners ... they better have their ducks in a row. Their "new" rule MUST be very reasonable.
Question: When you mention street parking is that via the HOA or the local government? Also, are your streets owned by the HOA or are they owned by the local government?
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 08/08/2017 7:05 AM
Posted By ErinA1 on 08/07/2017 6:10 PM
Looking for specific advise with Illinois statute. Can BOD adopt a new rule/regulation regarding no parking of vehicles with company logos in driveway if this is not outlined in the governing docs?
Looking for specific advise with Illinois statute. Can BOD adopt a new rule/regulation regarding no parking of vehicles with company logos in driveway if this is not outlined in the governing docs?
If something is not in my HOA's governing documents, then I will not support creating a rule for it.
But what is going on? Why is someone so bothered by say a van with a company logo being parked in a driveway?
It helps keep the working-class riff-raff out of the neighborhood. Those people exist to provide services to the neighborhood, not to live-among and co-mingle with the residents.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
It serves to keep their unsightly vehicles out of the neighborhood. The people themselves are not riff-raff. We're glad they live here. We like them. They are our neighbors. What we don't like is looking out our windows and seeing huge honking red letters (or other similar eyesores) across the street or in the neighborhood driveways. Advertising on vehicles is obnoxious. Want to live here? Don't move in if you need your commercial eyesore vehicle to be with you at home.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 08/10/2017 1:53 PM
It serves to keep their unsightly vehicles out of the neighborhood. The people themselves are not riff-raff. We're glad they live here. We like them. They are our neighbors. What we don't like is looking out our windows and seeing huge honking red letters (or other similar eyesores) across the street or in the neighborhood driveways. Advertising on vehicles is obnoxious. Want to live here? Don't move in if you need your commercial eyesore vehicle to be with you at home.
It serves to keep their unsightly vehicles out of the neighborhood. The people themselves are not riff-raff. We're glad they live here. We like them. They are our neighbors. What we don't like is looking out our windows and seeing huge honking red letters (or other similar eyesores) across the street or in the neighborhood driveways. Advertising on vehicles is obnoxious. Want to live here? Don't move in if you need your commercial eyesore vehicle to be with you at home.
Right. The people are supposedly great unless they happen to possess jobs that necessitate driving a company work truck on a daily basis. You'd think they'd read the restrictions and suggest that their higher-paid, more appropriately classy superiors buy those homes instead.
There are lots of things that I can think of that might bother me to look at. The vehicle of a good neighbor that works for a living and provides for his family isn't even remotely close to being one of them.
These holier than thou people that use their own definition of a "commercial vehicle" as a means of putting down their neighbors are among the most petty of the petty imho.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Listen, know what you're getting into before you move into an HOA. If there are vehicle restrictions then abide by them! You agreed to the contract! Holier-Than-Thou has nothing to do with it. It's a contract! Some people can't read, I'm pretty sure of that.
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posts: 354
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 08/11/2017 11:11 AM
Listen, know what you're getting into before you move into an HOA. If there are vehicle restrictions then abide by them! You agreed to the contract! Holier-Than-Thou has nothing to do with it. It's a contract! Some people can't read, I'm pretty sure of that.
Listen, know what you're getting into before you move into an HOA. If there are vehicle restrictions then abide by them! You agreed to the contract! Holier-Than-Thou has nothing to do with it. It's a contract! Some people can't read, I'm pretty sure of that.
In the case of the OP, this is a new rule that didn't exist when current residents moved in, if I'm reading it right.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 08/11/2017 11:11 AM
Listen, know what you're getting into before you move into an HOA. If there are vehicle restrictions then abide by them! You agreed to the contract! Holier-Than-Thou has nothing to do with it. It's a contract! Some people can't read, I'm pretty sure of that.
Listen, know what you're getting into before you move into an HOA. If there are vehicle restrictions then abide by them! You agreed to the contract! Holier-Than-Thou has nothing to do with it. It's a contract! Some people can't read, I'm pretty sure of that.
"Commercial vehicles prohibited"
Simple enough. Google "commercial vehicles" and you'll find out all sorts of things about Gross vehicle weight and other information similar to this from Michigan:
Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to
transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle:
(1) Has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more
(26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight
rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or
(2) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001
pounds or more), whichever is greater; or
(3) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
(4) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.
What you WON'T find in the restrictions is that the HOA board decided to create their OWN definition of a commercial vehicle in order to discriminate against their working class neighbours, based upon some willy-nilly unvetted ideas that they thought sounded good.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DaveD3 on 08/11/2017 7:31 PM
What you WON'T find in the restrictions is that the HOA board decided to create their OWN definition of a commercial vehicle in order to discriminate against their working class neighbours, based upon some willy-nilly unvetted ideas that they thought sounded good.
What you WON'T find in the restrictions is that the HOA board decided to create their OWN definition of a commercial vehicle in order to discriminate against their working class neighbours, based upon some willy-nilly unvetted ideas that they thought sounded good.
WRONG ... I have seen BOD's try to implement Rules and Regulations when as the OP stated ... is not in the governing documents. Potentially that appears to be the OP's question.
If individuals do not want to allow commercial vehicles and the current CCR's do not address then they need to get the appropriate vote to meet the required percentage of owners to Amend the CCR's. A court will frown on a handful (a.k.a. Board of Directors) trying to make that change with a small handful of individuals. Keep in mind the CCR's will stand up in a Court of Law above and beyond any later Rules and Regulations because the CCR's are what is attached to the property titles and agreed to by owners prior to and after their purchase.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Commercial vehicle rules vary in so many states that they are not a good thing to apply when trying to keep the neighborhood commercial vehicle free. As an example. In SC one can apply for a commercial plate to allow them to park in Loading Zones. No restriction on vehicle type, size, etc but yet a commercial plate.
Let us use the example of a Ford Escape wrapped with an insurance company advertisement. Would you consider this a commercial vehicle?
https://www.fastsigns.com/products/product-details/vehicle-wrap?gclid=COmIjp201NUCFY95gQodgTQDqw&gclsrc=ds
Let us use the example of a Ford Escape wrapped with an insurance company advertisement. Would you consider this a commercial vehicle?
https://www.fastsigns.com/products/product-details/vehicle-wrap?gclid=COmIjp201NUCFY95gQodgTQDqw&gclsrc=ds
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
? Why would one want to park in a loading zone other than to conduct commerce ?
Ergo: Commercial Vehicle
"Wrap Signage"
either
vehicle owner was paid to advertise (even if merely the 'free' paint job)
or
the business owner is using his vehicle as a 'bill-board'
ergo: Commercial Vehicle
The HOA should try this rule:
A vehicle over 10,000 GVW OR a vehicle used for commerce OR a vehicle with visible advertising (other than manufacturer's 'name badge')is PROHIBITED from [whatever].
Ergo: Commercial Vehicle
"Wrap Signage"
either
vehicle owner was paid to advertise (even if merely the 'free' paint job)
or
the business owner is using his vehicle as a 'bill-board'
ergo: Commercial Vehicle
The HOA should try this rule:
A vehicle over 10,000 GVW OR a vehicle used for commerce OR a vehicle with visible advertising (other than manufacturer's 'name badge')is PROHIBITED from [whatever].
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
PITA
FYI. In SC the purpose of the commercial plate was to allow parking in a loading zone (2 hour max) for a business to be able to bring something into their business like a box of files, boxes of lunch, a new computer, etc. This is critical in cities where parking is restricted, especially in Charleston and Columbia.
That plate alone does not make it a commercial vehicle.
FYI. In SC the purpose of the commercial plate was to allow parking in a loading zone (2 hour max) for a business to be able to bring something into their business like a box of files, boxes of lunch, a new computer, etc. This is critical in cities where parking is restricted, especially in Charleston and Columbia.
That plate alone does not make it a commercial vehicle.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/13/2017 7:22 AM
Commercial vehicle rules vary in so many states that they are not a good thing to apply when trying to keep the neighborhood commercial vehicle free. As an example. In SC one can apply for a commercial plate to allow them to park in Loading Zones. No restriction on vehicle type, size, etc but yet a commercial plate.
Let us use the example of a Ford Escape wrapped with an insurance company advertisement. Would you consider this a commercial vehicle?
https://www.fastsigns.com/products/product-details/vehicle-wrap?gclid=COmIjp201NUCFY95gQodgTQDqw&gclsrc=ds
Commercial vehicle rules vary in so many states that they are not a good thing to apply when trying to keep the neighborhood commercial vehicle free. As an example. In SC one can apply for a commercial plate to allow them to park in Loading Zones. No restriction on vehicle type, size, etc but yet a commercial plate.
Let us use the example of a Ford Escape wrapped with an insurance company advertisement. Would you consider this a commercial vehicle?
https://www.fastsigns.com/products/product-details/vehicle-wrap?gclid=COmIjp201NUCFY95gQodgTQDqw&gclsrc=ds
Does it fit the legal definition of a "commercial vehicle" according to the state government?
Yes? It's a commercial vehicle.
No? It's not a commercial vehicle.
It may be ugly, but that doesn't make it a commercial vehicle.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 08/13/2017 11:44 AM
? Why would one want to park in a loading zone other than to conduct commerce ?
Ergo: Commercial Vehicle
"Wrap Signage"
either
vehicle owner was paid to advertise (even if merely the 'free' paint job)
or
the business owner is using his vehicle as a 'bill-board'
ergo: Commercial Vehicle
The HOA should try this rule:
A vehicle over 10,000 GVW OR a vehicle used for commerce OR a vehicle with visible advertising (other than manufacturer's 'name badge')is PROHIBITED from [whatever].
? Why would one want to park in a loading zone other than to conduct commerce ?
Ergo: Commercial Vehicle
"Wrap Signage"
either
vehicle owner was paid to advertise (even if merely the 'free' paint job)
or
the business owner is using his vehicle as a 'bill-board'
ergo: Commercial Vehicle
The HOA should try this rule:
A vehicle over 10,000 GVW OR a vehicle used for commerce OR a vehicle with visible advertising (other than manufacturer's 'name badge')is PROHIBITED from [whatever].
So the guy with the Dallas Cowboys sticker in the back window of his Honda Civic is now driving a commercial vehicle? Or is it only if he has a Monster Energy Drink decal?
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/13/2017 12:15 PM
PITA
FYI. In SC the purpose of the commercial plate was to allow parking in a loading zone (2 hour max) for a business to be able to bring something into their business like a box of files, boxes of lunch, a new computer, etc. This is critical in cities where parking is restricted, especially in Charleston and Columbia.
That plate alone does not make it a commercial vehicle.
PITA
FYI. In SC the purpose of the commercial plate was to allow parking in a loading zone (2 hour max) for a business to be able to bring something into their business like a box of files, boxes of lunch, a new computer, etc. This is critical in cities where parking is restricted, especially in Charleston and Columbia.
That plate alone does not make it a commercial vehicle.
However, the plate makes it a vehicle 'used for commerce'.
The HOA merely needs to use said terminology.
NOT 'commercial vehicle'
BUT 'vehicle used for commerce'
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
So the guy with the Dallas Cowboys sticker in the back window of his Honda Civic is now driving a commercial vehicle? Or is it only if he has a Monster Energy Drink decal?
YES and YES
ps. said decals ALSO violate motor vehicle regulations concerning visibility through the glass area of the vehicle - they are also prohibited for safety reasons - as well as the fuzzy dice and handicap placards WHEN THE VEHICLE IS MOVING
pps. obviously said decals should not be covered with blank magnetic or 'cling' signage
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
pps. 'my' HOA bans ANY and ALL signage visible from a common area
incl. 'junk' adhered to vehicles
COMMERCIAL VEHICLES OWNED AND OPERATED BY VENDORS ARE EXEMPT BUT MAY NOT PARK OVERNIGHT
let the Tauric Ka-Ka continue
incl. 'junk' adhered to vehicles
COMMERCIAL VEHICLES OWNED AND OPERATED BY VENDORS ARE EXEMPT BUT MAY NOT PARK OVERNIGHT
let the Tauric Ka-Ka continue
CarlJ2 (Texas)
Posts: 194
Posts: 194
Posted:
What a lousy situation. HOA makes a rule to ostracize a home owner due to their occupation when it is by that very occupation that they are able to pay their dues back to the HOA.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 08/14/2017 6:23 AM
So the guy with the Dallas Cowboys sticker in the back window of his Honda Civic is now driving a commercial vehicle? Or is it only if he has a Monster Energy Drink decal?
YES and YES
ps. said decals ALSO violate motor vehicle regulations concerning visibility through the glass area of the vehicle - they are also prohibited for safety reasons - as well as the fuzzy dice and handicap placards WHEN THE VEHICLE IS MOVING
pps. obviously said decals should not be covered with blank magnetic or 'cling' signage
Rear window stickers don't violate South Carolina law. Only on the windshield and side windows. (38-393.60)
Do you honestly think that any judge in any court is going to look at a Dallas Cowboys sticker on a car and agree with the HOA that the placement of the sticker constitutes that vehicle being a "commercial vehicle" despite the HOA's definition having no basis whatsoever in the established legal definitions.
Quite frankly, this whole discussion is bordering on idiotic. Great example of HOAs run amok.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
..... being a "commercial vehicle" despite the HOA's definition having no basis whatsoever in the established legal definitions.
Precisely my point
Therefor:
'... any vehicle used for commerce OR having signage ...'
like I said: Tauric Ka-Ka
however:
I enjoy playing the game
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 08/13/2017 11:44 AM
? Why would one want to park in a loading zone other than to conduct commerce ?
Ergo: Commercial Vehicle
"Wrap Signage"
either
vehicle owner was paid to advertise (even if merely the 'free' paint job)
or
the business owner is using his vehicle as a 'bill-board'
ergo: Commercial Vehicle
The HOA should try this rule:
A vehicle over 10,000 GVW OR a vehicle used for commerce OR a vehicle with visible advertising (other than manufacturer's 'name badge')is PROHIBITED from [whatever].
? Why would one want to park in a loading zone other than to conduct commerce ?
Ergo: Commercial Vehicle
"Wrap Signage"
either
vehicle owner was paid to advertise (even if merely the 'free' paint job)
or
the business owner is using his vehicle as a 'bill-board'
ergo: Commercial Vehicle
The HOA should try this rule:
A vehicle over 10,000 GVW OR a vehicle used for commerce OR a vehicle with visible advertising (other than manufacturer's 'name badge')is PROHIBITED from [whatever].
I normally agree with your posts, and rather enjoy reading them, but this one is way off the mark. I drive an F350 daily, It's white with no stickers and I do not own a business nor do I use my truck for company use. I have a fifth wheel camper that I use. The GVWR on my truck exceeds 10,000 lbs. So according to your rule, I would not be able to have my truck parked at my house.
The HOA's, mainly the mostly over-baring communistic Boards of directors have somehow distorted the definition of a "commercial vehicle" in hopes to prevent having to read the sticker on the side of a vehicle while having their morning coffee in their breakfast nook with the bay window. All of this would be settled if people would simply ask their attorney what would stand up in court as a "commercial vehicle".
I'll say it again, I thin it absolutely idiotic for any neighbor to oppose the parking of a vehicle simply because it has signage on it. Signage does not constitute a commercial vehicle.
If this was neighbors I would install "Have a nice day" stickers on the sides of my truck. Commercial?
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Sorry, I neglected one key word.
Your truck/trailer would be allowed.
Just no Cowboys stickers
A vehicle over 10,000 kilograms GVW OR a vehicle used for commerce OR a vehicle with visible advertising (other than manufacturer's 'name badge')is PROHIBITED from [whatever].
Your truck/trailer would be allowed.
Just no Cowboys stickers
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posts: 724
Posted:
Vehicles with Dallas Cowboys stickers are frowned upon in AZ anyway, so I'm okay with that.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
EVERYTHING is frowned upon in Arizona.
It has something to do with the constant squinting from the brutal desert sun.
Gooooooooooooooooooooooo Jets !
It has something to do with the constant squinting from the brutal desert sun.
Gooooooooooooooooooooooo Jets !
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 08/14/2017 9:41 AM
Posted By PitA on 08/13/2017 11:44 AM
? Why would one want to park in a loading zone other than to conduct commerce ?
Ergo: Commercial Vehicle
"Wrap Signage"
either
vehicle owner was paid to advertise (even if merely the 'free' paint job)
or
the business owner is using his vehicle as a 'bill-board'
ergo: Commercial Vehicle
The HOA should try this rule:
A vehicle over 10,000 GVW OR a vehicle used for commerce OR a vehicle with visible advertising (other than manufacturer's 'name badge')is PROHIBITED from [whatever].
? Why would one want to park in a loading zone other than to conduct commerce ?
Ergo: Commercial Vehicle
"Wrap Signage"
either
vehicle owner was paid to advertise (even if merely the 'free' paint job)
or
the business owner is using his vehicle as a 'bill-board'
ergo: Commercial Vehicle
The HOA should try this rule:
A vehicle over 10,000 GVW OR a vehicle used for commerce OR a vehicle with visible advertising (other than manufacturer's 'name badge')is PROHIBITED from [whatever].
I normally agree with your posts, and rather enjoy reading them, but this one is way off the mark. I drive an F350 daily, It's white with no stickers and I do not own a business nor do I use my truck for company use. I have a fifth wheel camper that I use. The GVWR on my truck exceeds 10,000 lbs. So according to your rule, I would not be able to have my truck parked at my house.
The HOA's, mainly the mostly over-baring communistic Boards of directors have somehow distorted the definition of a "commercial vehicle" in hopes to prevent having to read the sticker on the side of a vehicle while having their morning coffee in their breakfast nook with the bay window. All of this would be settled if people would simply ask their attorney what would stand up in court as a "commercial vehicle".
I'll say it again, I thin it absolutely idiotic for any neighbor to oppose the parking of a vehicle simply because it has signage on it. Signage does not constitute a commercial vehicle.
If this was neighbors I would install "Have a nice day" stickers on the sides of my truck. Commercial?
I say signage on a vehicle makes it commercial whereas a F350 without signage is not commercial. We also have not discussed trucks rigged out with ladders, racks, etc but no signage. I say commercial.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Allow me to add some information. My last HOA in SC that banned commercial was one with private homes that had at least a two car garage (and some 3 car) and each driveway had room for at least 4 vehicles. I supported their ban on commercial vehicles.
The HOA I now live in has small patio homes. Garage was optional and driveways are small. With that, one has to be a bit more lenient about vehicles. We do have some restrictions and signage is not one of them. I would not support a ban on commercial such as my prior HOA had. Two different type HOA's. Two different sets of Covenants.
The HOA I now live in has small patio homes. Garage was optional and driveways are small. With that, one has to be a bit more lenient about vehicles. We do have some restrictions and signage is not one of them. I would not support a ban on commercial such as my prior HOA had. Two different type HOA's. Two different sets of Covenants.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/14/2017 12:36 PM
Allow me to add some information. My last HOA in SC that banned commercial was one with private homes that had at least a two car garage (and some 3 car) and each driveway had room for at least 4 vehicles. I supported their ban on commercial vehicles.
The HOA I now live in has small patio homes. Garage was optional and driveways are small. With that, one has to be a bit more lenient about vehicles. We do have some restrictions and signage is not one of them. I would not support a ban on commercial such as my prior HOA had. Two different type HOA's. Two different sets of Covenants.
Allow me to add some information. My last HOA in SC that banned commercial was one with private homes that had at least a two car garage (and some 3 car) and each driveway had room for at least 4 vehicles. I supported their ban on commercial vehicles.
The HOA I now live in has small patio homes. Garage was optional and driveways are small. With that, one has to be a bit more lenient about vehicles. We do have some restrictions and signage is not one of them. I would not support a ban on commercial such as my prior HOA had. Two different type HOA's. Two different sets of Covenants.
So, if I read this correctly, when there was plenty of room for parking, you supported a ban on parking certain vehicles, and when there is less room available for parking, you don't. That seems a little backwards to me, but the real question is the legal definition of a commercial vehicle. An HOA can call stickers on the side of a vehicle commercial all they want, but it won't stand up in court.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/14/2017 12:28 PM
I normally agree with your posts, and rather enjoy reading them, but this one is way off the mark. I drive an F350 daily, It's white with no stickers and I do not own a business nor do I use my truck for company use. I have a fifth wheel camper that I use. The GVWR on my truck exceeds 10,000 lbs. So according to your rule, I would not be able to have my truck parked at my house.
The HOA's, mainly the mostly over-baring communistic Boards of directors have somehow distorted the definition of a "commercial vehicle" in hopes to prevent having to read the sticker on the side of a vehicle while having their morning coffee in their breakfast nook with the bay window. All of this would be settled if people would simply ask their attorney what would stand up in court as a "commercial vehicle".
I'll say it again, I thin it absolutely idiotic for any neighbor to oppose the parking of a vehicle simply because it has signage on it. Signage does not constitute a commercial vehicle.
If this was neighbors I would install "Have a nice day" stickers on the sides of my truck. Commercial?
Posted By DouglasM6 on 08/14/2017 9:41 AM
Posted By PitA on 08/13/2017 11:44 AM
? Why would one want to park in a loading zone other than to conduct commerce ?
Ergo: Commercial Vehicle
"Wrap Signage"
either
vehicle owner was paid to advertise (even if merely the 'free' paint job)
or
the business owner is using his vehicle as a 'bill-board'
ergo: Commercial Vehicle
The HOA should try this rule:
A vehicle over 10,000 GVW OR a vehicle used for commerce OR a vehicle with visible advertising (other than manufacturer's 'name badge')is PROHIBITED from [whatever].
? Why would one want to park in a loading zone other than to conduct commerce ?
Ergo: Commercial Vehicle
"Wrap Signage"
either
vehicle owner was paid to advertise (even if merely the 'free' paint job)
or
the business owner is using his vehicle as a 'bill-board'
ergo: Commercial Vehicle
The HOA should try this rule:
A vehicle over 10,000 GVW OR a vehicle used for commerce OR a vehicle with visible advertising (other than manufacturer's 'name badge')is PROHIBITED from [whatever].
I normally agree with your posts, and rather enjoy reading them, but this one is way off the mark. I drive an F350 daily, It's white with no stickers and I do not own a business nor do I use my truck for company use. I have a fifth wheel camper that I use. The GVWR on my truck exceeds 10,000 lbs. So according to your rule, I would not be able to have my truck parked at my house.
The HOA's, mainly the mostly over-baring communistic Boards of directors have somehow distorted the definition of a "commercial vehicle" in hopes to prevent having to read the sticker on the side of a vehicle while having their morning coffee in their breakfast nook with the bay window. All of this would be settled if people would simply ask their attorney what would stand up in court as a "commercial vehicle".
I'll say it again, I thin it absolutely idiotic for any neighbor to oppose the parking of a vehicle simply because it has signage on it. Signage does not constitute a commercial vehicle.
If this was neighbors I would install "Have a nice day" stickers on the sides of my truck. Commercial?
I say signage on a vehicle makes it commercial whereas a F350 without signage is not commercial. We also have not discussed trucks rigged out with ladders, racks, etc but no signage. I say commercial.
You Say???
Did you know I can register my truck as a commercial vehicle without any signage on it? Signage is not a requirement or an indicator of a commercial vehicle.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Rear window stickers don't violate South Carolina law. Only on the windshield and side windows. (38-393.60)
Read the sentence referring to obstructions in 'driver's line of sight'.
Typical of many states:
32-15-5. Nontransparent material on windows prohibited--Petty offense--Official certificates excepted. It is a petty offense for any person to drive any vehicle upon a highway with any sign, poster, or other nontransparent material upon the front windshield, side wings, side, or rear windows of such motor vehicle other than a certificate or other paper required to be so displayed by law or temporary driving instructions placed thereon by the manufacturer unless the same shall not obstruct the driver's clear view of the highway or any intersecting highway.
------------------------------
(a)(1) A person shall not drive any motor vehicle with any object or material placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied upon the windshield or side or rear windows
-------------------------------
However, it is correct that many states DO permit the obstruction of the rear window (evidently, in THEIR opinion, it serves no purpose).
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
..... but the real question is the legal definition of a commercial vehicle.
The 'definition' is a moot point if the restriction is well worded.
No vehicle used for commerce OR having signage (other than manufacturer's 'badge') OR over 10,000 kg GVW is permitted WXYZ.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 08/14/2017 2:20 PM
..... but the real question is the legal definition of a commercial vehicle.
The 'definition' is a moot point if the restriction is well worded.
No vehicle used for commerce OR having signage (other than manufacturer's 'badge') OR over 10,000 kg GVW is permitted WXYZ.
True. But most covenants simply say "commercial vehicle"
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 08/14/2017 2:15 PM
Rear window stickers don't violate South Carolina law. Only on the windshield and side windows. (38-393.60)
Read the sentence referring to obstructions in 'driver's line of sight'.
Typical of many states:
32-15-5. Nontransparent material on windows prohibited--Petty offense--Official certificates excepted. It is a petty offense for any person to drive any vehicle upon a highway with any sign, poster, or other nontransparent material upon the front windshield, side wings, side, or rear windows of such motor vehicle other than a certificate or other paper required to be so displayed by law or temporary driving instructions placed thereon by the manufacturer unless the same shall not obstruct the driver's clear view of the highway or any intersecting highway.
------------------------------
(a)(1) A person shall not drive any motor vehicle with any object or material placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied upon the windshield or side or rear windows
-------------------------------
However, it is correct that many states DO permit the obstruction of the rear window (evidently, in THEIR opinion, it serves no purpose).
In AZ you can have stickers on the rear window so long as they do not block the driver's view when using the rear view mirror. It's a grey area for sure. Many police see any size sticker in the center of the rear window as blockage. Many are okay with small stickers.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 08/14/2017 2:23 PM
The 'definition' is a moot point if the restriction is well worded.
No vehicle used for commerce OR having signage (other than manufacturer's 'badge') OR over 10,000 kg GVW is permitted WXYZ.
Posted By PitA on 08/14/2017 2:20 PM
..... but the real question is the legal definition of a commercial vehicle.
The 'definition' is a moot point if the restriction is well worded.
No vehicle used for commerce OR having signage (other than manufacturer's 'badge') OR over 10,000 kg GVW is permitted WXYZ.
True. But most covenants simply say "commercial vehicle"
True. Then it is up to the BOD to define such via Rules & Regulations. If one does not like their R&R, then elect a new BOD and change it. Otherwise live with it.
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