Board Member Blatantly Not Thinking Rules Apply..

Started by MichelleC8 • 32 replies • 1306 views

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MichelleC8 (California)
Posts: 80

Posted:

Hi there,

There are moments when communal HOA living just cause one to be "flabbergasted". Today was one of them.

There have been prior report of one of our board members having his dog off leash, in communal areas including the pool, gym, etc. Let alone off the property. Its been reported to our management a few times as far as I know with myself and a few other owners. ( Even if the dog is a service dog.. there are no visible tags or leash used )

Today my spouse went to go down and use the pool. He is mobility challenged and walks with a cane. He walked up and was smart enough to hit record. The same board member who has been noted to have his Pit Bull (albeit a loving dog) off leach in the pool area, and one neighbor stated the dog was alone for period before this incident.

The video shows an interaction with an owner telling the board member that dogs are not allowed int he pool. The owner stated by "who". and the interaction went ahead of him saying "who is it harming having the dog here". The truth is my husband is fearful of being knocked over but this large dog. he isn't leashed, runs up to the gate and is obviously not controlled. that is who is affects.

My concern is this..... its been reported. IN fact several other rules this person is ignoring has been also reported. the video is coincidental. Thank goodness it was recorded when it was seen. the interaction was left stating the board members are not above the rules and the board member dismissed the statement saying "Have a good day"....and staying behind.

HOW can you enforce rules if they are not in turn being honored by those who are enforcing them? Animal control has been notified by several owners.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I suspect he wouldn't be complying with the rules regardless if he is a Board member or not.

My suggestion, at this point, have an attorney write a letter to the Board specifying that if anything ever happens with the dog, not only will the owner be named in any legal action but the Association will also be named for being negligent and not addressing the issue after numerous reports of rule violations concerning the pet.

TimM11
Posts: 354

Posted:

What has Animal Control said when it's been reported? I'm assuming you're in a jurisdiction where leash laws apply.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Okay I was guilty of this myself. I had 2 dogs that I took out walking with me everyday. Being President one of my duties was to take care of the pool area. It was a fenced in area. Due to my extremely busy schedule I would take the dogs in the pool area with me when I cleaned. The dogs would NOT go into the pool even if you dragged them in. (Which was funny as people reported my dogs swimming in the pool. So not true. They would not swim). Usually there was no people at the pool when I cleaned. If you ever owned dogs, you also know they will pull on their leash to keep near you if tied up. So yes, I would let them "off leash" in a fenced in area for a few minutes while putting things away.

Now sometimes if there were people at the pool they were familiar with my dogs. The kids loved them and often walked them when I wasn't home. That's another funny story... They saw my dogs would not go into the pool and I kept them on leashes if people were at the pool. The kids would want them to get in the pool with them but would not let that happen. Although my dogs got soaked anyways from the kids.

So in my opinion is I think it does depend on the culture of your HOA on what is found offensive/rule breaking one can't live with. The members would complain about my dogs in the pool area to me. However, 9/10 times I was only at the pool area with my dogs as part of my pool duties. Usually an emergency, cleaning, checking on it, or called over while I was out with my dogs. If the dogs were in the pool I would have a problem. If the dog was with him already and he stopped by the pool as part of duties, then not so much. I am a multi-tasker and I worked 10 - 14 hours a day. The dogs had to get walked and the pool had to be checked/cleaned. So don't be so quick to judge. You may just ask he not bring the dog to Pool area. Unleashed you call the Animal control to handle.

Former HOA President

MichelleC8 (California)
Posts: 80

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimM11 on 08/06/2017 1:49 PM
What has Animal Control said when it's been reported? I'm assuming you're in a jurisdiction where leash laws apply.

Several owners have called. Photos and video were sent in. they will act upon it. However my bigger concern is not making accommodation or safe entry for a disabled person...

MichelleC8 (California)
Posts: 80

Posted:

The video.. clearly states the board member.. saying " who is it affecting". Thats GOD for cel phones... he is backpedaling and saying something different now.. this is WHY stuff like this has to be recorded.

Saying you had your dogs with you during pool maintenance duties is your own HOA madame. It's agains the rules here and also against health and safety city laws as this is a public pool. However, the fact that the dog is not controlled... and is roaming and seen there along by citable its a citable issues. to only by Animal Control, but city health dept.

The biggest issues is the dismissal of when confronted. and saying' there are rule for rules.. and ignored the request to put the dog away..

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Our pool is private and not public. Why should it make a difference if a person is handicapped or not in the case of a loose dog? Loose dog is an animal control issue.

One time I was walking my dogs, a neighbors dog had gotten loose. It had lost it's collar. It was a big German Shepard/Boxer mix. It was NOT known to be a "friendly" dog. Matter of fact I believe it had possibly bit someone at one point. Dogs being dogs this dog came after my dogs and me. Luckily I was quick enough and was able to get into my door. The bad news is my dogs (leashed) were not. I had closed the door behind me as it was coming for me. My dogs did not make it in. So all I saw was my leashes going up and down the door and hearing growling/barking on the other side. The owner at that time showed up in their truck and grabbed their dog. I came out after getting my dogs to safety. The dog had escaped the yard and it's collar. So not much me or the owner could have done. Animal control couldn't do much either. No one was hurt.

Keep in mind that dogs are seen as "property" in the eyes of the law. So if your going to approach this issue. Understand the dog is property. It's also an animal control issue not an HOA.

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Good gawd, Melissa. Put a cork in it! Some HOAs DO have rules about dogs and what common areas they cannot be in. In addition, such HOAs ask have rules about the dogs being on leah or others under the control of the owners. Can you think of no advice for Michelle? How does your YEARS-ago story help her with her problem?

Since there are rules, the HOA board must enforce them, Michelle. Calling animal control is a good idea TOO.

As you know, Michelle, CA HOA board meetings must be open to Owners to attend. AND, there must be an Open Forum for Owners to state their opinions, issues, etc.

You & Others who're troubled by these flagrant violations must attend these open meetings and complain. Submit your evidence to the PM. Has anyone down this yet? If not, why not? Send letters. Drive them crazy -- all of you acting together. Keep the pressure on.

Speaking of which, does you contract with your PM state that they'll enforce your governing documents? Or, at least not support those who oppose them, e.g., rogue directors.

You all need to keep the pressure on your Board and your PM. If your PM is unresponsive, perhaps you need to contact the management company, if there is one. they might be interested in know their PM isn't helping your HOA enforce your rules.

If after, let's say, two months of complaints in writing & at open meetings, then maybe con side a letter form an attorney. If several of you chip in to pay, it shouldn't cost too much.

Btw, what size is your HOA? condos? detached homes? what size is your Board? Is the PM on the premises 40 hours a week? Ever?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/06/2017 2:03 PM

I am a multi-tasker and I worked 10 - 14 hours a day. The dogs had to get walked and the pool had to be checked/cleaned. So don't be so quick to judge.

Melissa,

You can rationalize it any way you want. I suspect that this is what the individual the OP identifed as the owner of the dog is doing.

Regardless of how you rationalize it, it's a violation of the rules.

You were in violation just as he is.

You may be able to have the rules changed. However, until then compliance - especially by a board member - should be done.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I suspect that the individual in another thread who used the Association ATM card at a casino rationalizes it to.

Granted, it's not the same severity of rule breaking as having dogs at the pool.

However, each action was a violation.

MicheleG2 (California)
Posts: 1

Posted:

I am a Board member and have a dog - my dog is never off-leash outside of my unit. Our previous President had 2 dogs that were never on a leash. The dogs were friendly enough, but there are reasons for leash laws. Problem was, when the Board would have an issue about a homeowner whose dog was off-leash, there was no leg to stand on, as the defense was the President never kept her dogs on a leash. She is now gone, and I take reports of dogs off-leash very seriously. If I am made aware of it (as are the other Board members), written notice is sent to the homeowner.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/06/2017 2:41 PM>Our pool is private and not public. Why should it make a difference if a person is handicapped or not in the case of a loose dog? Loose dog is an animal control issue.

One time I was walking my dogs, a neighbors dog had gotten loose. It had lost it's collar. It was a big German Shepard/Boxer mix. It was NOT known to be a "friendly" dog. Matter of fact I believe it had possibly bit someone at one point. Dogs being dogs this dog came after my dogs and me. Luckily I was quick enough and was able to get into my door. The bad news is my dogs (leashed) were not. I had closed the door behind me as it was coming for me. My dogs did not make it in. So all I saw was my leashes going up and down the door and hearing growling/barking on the other side. The owner at that time showed up in their truck and grabbed their dog. I came out after getting my dogs to safety. The dog had escaped the yard and it's collar. So not much me or the owner could have done. Animal control couldn't do much either. No one was hurt.

Keep in mind that dogs are seen as "property" in the eyes of the law. So if your going to approach this issue. Understand the dog is property. It's also an animal control issue not an HOA.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/06/2017 2:41 PM
Our pool is private and not public. Why should it make a difference if a person is handicapped or not in the case of a loose dog? Loose dog is an animal control issue.

One time I was walking my dogs, a neighbors dog had gotten loose. It had lost it's collar. It was a big German Shepard/Boxer mix. It was NOT known to be a "friendly" dog. Matter of fact I believe it had possibly bit someone at one point. Dogs being dogs this dog came after my dogs and me. Luckily I was quick enough and was able to get into my door. The bad news is my dogs (leashed) were not. I had closed the door behind me as it was coming for me. My dogs did not make it in. So all I saw was my leashes going up and down the door and hearing growling/barking on the other side. The owner at that time showed up in their truck and grabbed their dog. I came out after getting my dogs to safety. The dog had escaped the yard and it's collar. So not much me or the owner could have done. Animal control couldn't do much either. No one was hurt.

Keep in mind that dogs are seen as "property" in the eyes of the law. So if your going to approach this issue. Understand the dog is property. It's also an animal control issue not an HOA.

WRONG WRONG WRONG

As guests from the general public may be invited without THEMSELVES being members the GEORGIA authority has classified your pool as PUBLIC, Type '?' (depending on size)

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I am in Alabama not Georgia. We only allowed invited guest to the pool and it was locked. The combo was only given to owners.

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Good for you, MicheleG2.

We take our pet rules very seriously too. Probably stricter than most because we're an elevator building and are condos, so things like incessant barking also is NOT tolerated.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

gfd no edit

ALABAMA

“Public Swimming Pool” structure, chamber or tank containing an artificial body of water
used by the public for swimming, diving, wading, recreation, or therapy, together with
buildings, appurtenances and equipment used in connection with the body of water,
regardless of whether a fee is charged for its use. For the purpose of these rules Interactive
Water Features are included in this definition. The term includes but is not limited to
schools, hotel, motels, camps, RV & mobile home parks, apartments, boarding houses,athletic clubs, condominiums, or other membership facility pools/spas. This article does not
apply to a private pool/spa serving two or fewer living units and used only by the residents of
the units and their guest.

The only issue is which CLASS of Public Pool y'all own and operate.

applies to both Baldwin and Jefferson

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

[quote[ As guests from the general public may be invited without THEMSELVES being members the (49 out of 50 state's) authority having jurisdiction (as per the Natl. Unified Swimming Pool Code) has classified your pool as PUBLIC, Type '?' (depending on size)

? Wanna make a cash wager ?

Better yet, prove me wrong and I will terminate my account and forever go away

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

gfd no edit

As guests from the general public may be invited without THEMSELVES being members the (49 out of 50 states) authority having jurisdiction (as per the Natl. Unified Swimming Pool Code) has classified your pool as PUBLIC, Type '?' (depending on size)

? Wanna make a cash wager ?

Better yet, prove me wrong and I will terminate my account and forever go away

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/06/2017 4:00 PM
I am in Alabama not Georgia. We only allowed invited guest to the pool and it was locked. The combo was only given to owners.

Said guest being a member of the public and NOT a member of the association.

Else, they would not be a guest.

ergo:

Class '?' Public Pool

D'OH

ps. ALABAMA has the same or similar pool code as the rest of the USA

MichelleC8 (California)
Posts: 80

Posted:

Stacked, enclosed 80 units. Common area has a sign no pets in pool area.. in the pool area. Video is pretty blatant and clear the owner has no regard for rues and even mimics, and questions why is it hurting anyone.. People have valid reasons for fear of dogs. For an owner to think he can monopolize the pol with a pit bull, not regard to law or rules is well, irresposible.

SO glad it was recorded. More and more people should do this when reporting to the PM and board.

Saying that, the dog was not removed at the end of it all. The conversation was dismissed, th owner and board member said good day to my spouse. Animal Control was notified by other units 2 of which witnessed this. Photos provided too. hard to deny video and pictures.

MichelleC8 (California)
Posts: 80

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 08/06/2017 3:02 PM
Good gawd, Melissa. Put a cork in it! Some HOAs DO have rules about dogs and what common areas they cannot be in. In addition, such HOAs ask have rules about the dogs being on leah or others under the control of the owners. Can you think of no advice for Michelle? How does your YEARS-ago story help her with her problem?

Since there are rules, the HOA board must enforce them, Michelle. Calling animal control is a good idea TOO.

As you know, Michelle, CA HOA board meetings must be open to Owners to attend. AND, there must be an Open Forum for Owners to state their opinions, issues, etc.

You & Others who're troubled by these flagrant violations must attend these open meetings and complain. Submit your evidence to the PM. Has anyone down this yet? If not, why not? Send letters. Drive them crazy -- all of you acting together. Keep the pressure on.

Speaking of which, does you contract with your PM state that they'll enforce your governing documents? Or, at least not support those who oppose them, e.g., rogue directors.

You all need to keep the pressure on your Board and your PM. If your PM is unresponsive, perhaps you need to contact the management company, if there is one. they might be interested in know their PM isn't helping your HOA enforce your rules.

If after, let's say, two months of complaints in writing & at open meetings, then maybe con side a letter form an attorney. If several of you chip in to pay, it shouldn't cost too much.

Btw, what size is your HOA? condos? detached homes? what size is your Board? Is the PM on the premises 40 hours a week? Ever?

The more modern term is disabled. Handicapped is so 1960's..

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

We had a similar problem last year. One owner who was an on-again off-again board member over the years flaunted the dog leash rules of the community for years. The "answer" always ended up being, "Call animal control". That proved ineffective and when animal control refused to get involved the fact remained that there were Rules & Regulations in the HOA against letting dogs run loose. IF animal control took action, great, but they didn't and it became incumbent on the HOA to enforce the violations. Which nobody wanted to do. The offending owner moved out late last year and the problem went away. Nevertheless, the HOA had ample notice via homeowner complaints that a dog known to bite people (thank goodness it was a one of those little yap dogs) was running loose on a daily basis. HOAs with knowledge that there are dangerous dogs running loose in the community HAVE been held liable for failing to do anything about the situation. Animal control, schanimal control. It falls on the association to enforce its own rules & regulations regardless.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Hmmmm, MichelleC8, I don't grasp your response below??????
-----------------------------------------------------------
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/06/2017 3:02 PM
Good gawd, Melissa. Put a cork in it! Some HOAs DO have rules about dogs and what common areas they cannot be in. In addition, such HOAs ask have rules about the dogs being on leah or others under the control of the owners. Can you think of no advice for Michelle? How does your YEARS-ago story help her with her problem?

Since there are rules, the HOA board must enforce them, Michelle. Calling animal control is a good idea TOO.

As you know, Michelle, CA HOA board meetings must be open to Owners to attend. AND, there must be an Open Forum for Owners to state their opinions, issues, etc.

You & Others who're troubled by these flagrant violations must attend these open meetings and complain. Submit your evidence to the PM. Has anyone down this yet? If not, why not? Send letters. Drive them crazy -- all of you acting together. Keep the pressure on.

Speaking of which, does you contract with your PM state that they'll enforce your governing documents? Or, at least not support those who oppose them, e.g., rogue directors.

You all need to keep the pressure on your Board and your PM. If your PM is unresponsive, perhaps you need to contact the management company, if there is one. they might be interested in know their PM isn't helping your HOA enforce your rules.

If after, let's say, two months of complaints in writing & at open meetings, then maybe con side a letter form an attorney. If several of you chip in to pay, it shouldn't cost too much.

Btw, what size is your HOA? condos? detached homes? what size is your Board? Is the PM on the premises 40 hours a week? Ever?
---------------------------------------

MichelleC8: "The more modern term is disabled. Handicapped is so 1960's.."

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

You should file a complaint with animal control, and if this person has this dog in the poll area it is a health code violation. Even service animals are prohibited from pools.
You should also call the health department to file a complaint.

CjC
Posts: 210

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LetA on 08/06/2017 11:26 PM
You should file a complaint with animal control, and if this person has this dog in the poll area it is a health code violation. Even service animals are prohibited from pools.
You should also call the health department to file a complaint.

PER ADA guidelines, service animals are permitted on the pool deck but no in the pool.

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

Please see Q33.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

WOW, our CM would beg to differ. Even the response security company which is POST certified said the same thing.

The problem is anyone can buy a "vest" online and put it on their dog.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

A service animal is NOT an emotional support animal.
They are two different things.

MichelleK5 (New York)
Posts: 161

Posted:

Service animals are permitted pretty much everywhere, including pools.
If your HOA is banning them due to health code violations, they're violating disability laws.

Put it this way, there is no difference between allowing a service animal into a restaurant, or a pool. Both violate health codes, but the disabled persons rights, trump health codes in these instances.

But is this a service animal? I have dogs and I would never take them to our pool. It's just plain inconsiderate.

I would first find out if this is a service animal, and if not, report to the proper authorities.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Let's try to remember that the OP wrote the dog is "off leash." So....it doesn't matter if the dog a is a service animal (which the violator never claimed so far as we know). This HOA has rules that dogs must on leash AND so does their municipality.

MichelleC8 (California)
Posts: 80

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichelleK5 on 08/07/2017 10:30 AM
Service animals are permitted pretty much everywhere, including pools.
If your HOA is banning them due to health code violations, they're violating disability laws.

Put it this way, there is no difference between allowing a service animal into a restaurant, or a pool. Both violate health codes, but the disabled persons rights, trump health codes in these instances.

But is this a service animal? I have dogs and I would never take them to our pool. It's just plain inconsiderate.

I would first find out if this is a service animal, and if not, report to the proper authorities.

THE DOG HAS NO TAGS. ITS IT NOT A KNOWN SERVICE ANIMAL HE IS A KNOWN PET. HE DOESN'T HAVE A COLLAR NOR A LEASH. RULE #4 ON OUR POSTED RULES ON THE POOL STATE. "No pets allowed in the pool area". Is that enough??

If he is a service animal.. he isnt' registered with our BOD nor our management co. He moved with him while I was present a year and a half ago...

its frustrating. best part is the video. The management co and the board has been warned either fix this ro I will take to the neighbors. threats are the only way action seem to happen with our BOD.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I tired some advice above, MichelleC--did you miss it? Or can't you rally support and all go to an open board meeting???

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

..... either fix this ro I will take to the neighbors.

Noooooooooooooooooooooo

Noooooooooooooooooooooo

not the neighbors

The Horror The Horror

(think 'marlon brando / apocalypse now)

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichelleC8 on 08/07/2017 5:08 PM
Posted By MichelleK5 on 08/07/2017 10:30 AM
Service animals are permitted pretty much everywhere, including pools.
If your HOA is banning them due to health code violations, they're violating disability laws.

Put it this way, there is no difference between allowing a service animal into a restaurant, or a pool. Both violate health codes, but the disabled persons rights, trump health codes in these instances.

But is this a service animal? I have dogs and I would never take them to our pool. It's just plain inconsiderate.

I would first find out if this is a service animal, and if not, report to the proper authorities.

Send a letter "Certified Return Receipt" to the Board and Mgmt Company if have one noting the CCR violations. Hopefully when the HOA knows at that point when they have to "sign" for your letter they will know you are tracking the information for potential future litigation and will then maybe enforce the documents. If they do not enforce ... then at least you will have proof via the return receipt attached to your copy of the letter sent to show to a possible future Court of Law. LOL ... if your neighbors have not done anything yet ... don't hold your breath.

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