ErinA1 (Illinois)
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
How would you handle going forward with homeowners who never submitted A&A's and where never cited, it's been four years...
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A&A question
Started by ErinA1 • 21 replies • 1208 views
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KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
What are "A&As" ? Some kind of architectural requirement? Do you governing documents say "they" must be submitted?
Are you on the Board?
Are you on the Board?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
A&A ??????
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 08/02/2017 3:40 PM
A&A ??????
A&A ??????
Ditto
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
? Architectural Approval (form) ?
ErinA1 (Illinois)
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
Yes. However this "form" or requirement is not outlined in our declarations so now I'm wondering if we can even "enforce" our residents to complete it prior to their work.
ErinA1 (Illinois)
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
Yes I am on the board, this "required" form is only in a welcome packet provided by our property management company along with a table of fine schedule and a violation policy and none of this is outlined in our declarations only that board approval is required before alterations are done to the exterior of the home. So now my question is are any of said "requirements" and policies even allowed since they are not laid out in the declarations?
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ErinA1 on 08/03/2017 6:15 AM
Yes I am on the board, this "required" form is only in a welcome packet provided by our property management company along with a table of fine schedule and a violation policy and none of this is outlined in our declarations only that board approval is required before alterations are done to the exterior of the home. So now my question is are any of said "requirements" and policies even allowed since they are not laid out in the declarations?
Yes I am on the board, this "required" form is only in a welcome packet provided by our property management company along with a table of fine schedule and a violation policy and none of this is outlined in our declarations only that board approval is required before alterations are done to the exterior of the home. So now my question is are any of said "requirements" and policies even allowed since they are not laid out in the declarations?
YES, they are not only allowed, but, from a practical perspective, required.
The Board merely drafted a form for said approval process which IS REFERENCED in your Covenants.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posts: 927
Posted:
Such a form provides guidance to owners concerning what sort of information is needed to evaluate an application. Surely you would not want every one of them to guess and reinvent the wheel.
A form is purely a convenience, not evidence of fascist overreach. Unless, of course, it requires your social security number, bank information, and a DNA sample.
A form is purely a convenience, not evidence of fascist overreach. Unless, of course, it requires your social security number, bank information, and a DNA sample.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posts: 927
Posted:
By the way, I, and pretty much everyone else, had no idea what and A&A was.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ErinA1 on 08/03/2017 6:12 AM
Yes. However this "form" or requirement is not outlined in our declarations so now I'm wondering if we can even "enforce" our residents to complete it prior to their work.
Yes. However this "form" or requirement is not outlined in our declarations so now I'm wondering if we can even "enforce" our residents to complete it prior to their work.
Ignore the actual form.
Do your covenants mention the need for prior approval for exterior changes?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
With Tim, Erin, what DO your governing documents, probably your CC&Rs (Declaration) say about the board's ability to make rules concerning the exteriors of your HOA's homes?
Or, what does it say about the Board's ability to levy fines and make a fine schedule?
Your property mgr. should be able to show you you the CC&Rs articles that supported their making you a Welcome Pak.
State laws also may matter re: fines, calls to hearing, etc.
Or, what does it say about the Board's ability to levy fines and make a fine schedule?
Your property mgr. should be able to show you you the CC&Rs articles that supported their making you a Welcome Pak.
State laws also may matter re: fines, calls to hearing, etc.
ErinA1 (Illinois)
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
Talked to our attorney today - since we are a new board essentially suggestion would be to have all homeowners submit proper documentation now and start over pretty much
We had a fine table/violation policy in place but the previous board failed to do anything with this so in my opinion I think lesson learned and as a board we need to let this go.
We had a fine table/violation policy in place but the previous board failed to do anything with this so in my opinion I think lesson learned and as a board we need to let this go.
ErinA1 (Illinois)
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
Talked to our attorney today - since we are a new board essentially suggestion would be to have all homeowners submit proper documentation now and start over pretty much
We had a fine table/violation policy in place but the previous board failed to do anything with this so in my opinion I think lesson learned and as a board we need to let this go.
We had a fine table/violation policy in place but the previous board failed to do anything with this so in my opinion I think lesson learned and as a board we need to let this go.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Hi Erin,
Your attorney gave the same advice I was going to give (expecting prior approval is required).
What we did when we encountered a similar problem was:
1) Identified the changes on each lot.
2) For those changes that would have been approved anyway, we issued a memorandum identifying the change and stating that the memo acted as the approval documentation.
3) For those changes that would not have been approved we simply wrote a letter saying that there is no documentation of the approval on file. We asked that the homeowner provide a copy of the documentation, submit a request or remove the change (this turned out mainly for decorative items like large planters, etc.).
Your attorney gave the same advice I was going to give (expecting prior approval is required).
What we did when we encountered a similar problem was:
1) Identified the changes on each lot.
2) For those changes that would have been approved anyway, we issued a memorandum identifying the change and stating that the memo acted as the approval documentation.
3) For those changes that would not have been approved we simply wrote a letter saying that there is no documentation of the approval on file. We asked that the homeowner provide a copy of the documentation, submit a request or remove the change (this turned out mainly for decorative items like large planters, etc.).
ErinA1 (Illinois)
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
Can I ask a follow up question? We have a similar situation with large planters/pots lining the driveway of a residence - the previous board told him he could only have 2 planters, Imour declarations don't outline these things specifically and he's not going to remove them - is this something worth fighting about?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ErinA1 on 08/04/2017 11:26 AM
is this something worth fighting about?
is this something worth fighting about?
Until you get your records updated, it's not worth worrying about at this time.
CharlesP7 (Louisiana)
Posts: 15
Posts: 15
Posted:
We have a similar situation as well a few examples would be:
1) Resident closed in a patio at the back of the property. The enclosure has incorrect roofing materials and pitch per CC&Rs This normally would not be an issue however the property backs to common area (pond) and visible by all.
2) Resident painted entire house white. Our CC&Rs state that the exterior materials are brick, stucco, and single siding lap board (lap board can not cover more than 30%). This resident painted over the brick, stucco, and all. Additional areas in our CC&Rs state; colors are to be subdued and no bright colors are allowed. Houses are to remain uniform throughout the community (this is the only house with painted brick now).
In both instances, neither resident submitted the required change request forms. And yes our CC&Rs state no work is to be done without prior approval of our change committee.
So in these cases when we write the memo that states these changes were done without approval and do not aligned with CC&Rs would you issue a violatation notice that incurs rolling fines and interest until rectified?
1) Resident closed in a patio at the back of the property. The enclosure has incorrect roofing materials and pitch per CC&Rs This normally would not be an issue however the property backs to common area (pond) and visible by all.
2) Resident painted entire house white. Our CC&Rs state that the exterior materials are brick, stucco, and single siding lap board (lap board can not cover more than 30%). This resident painted over the brick, stucco, and all. Additional areas in our CC&Rs state; colors are to be subdued and no bright colors are allowed. Houses are to remain uniform throughout the community (this is the only house with painted brick now).
In both instances, neither resident submitted the required change request forms. And yes our CC&Rs state no work is to be done without prior approval of our change committee.
So in these cases when we write the memo that states these changes were done without approval and do not aligned with CC&Rs would you issue a violatation notice that incurs rolling fines and interest until rectified?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CharlesP7 on 08/06/2017 8:26 AM
So in these cases when we write the memo that states these changes were done without approval and do not aligned with CC&Rs would you issue a violatation notice that incurs rolling fines and interest until rectified?
So in these cases when we write the memo that states these changes were done without approval and do not aligned with CC&Rs would you issue a violatation notice that incurs rolling fines and interest until rectified?
With the expectation that this violation is several years old (vs. caught at the time)
First, I wouldn't say that they were done without prior approval.
I say that there is no approval on file and it is unlikely that such approval would be given as it violates the CC&Rs (citing section). I would then ask for a copy of the approval from them by mm/dd/yy or it would be considered a violation.
I would then go through the violation process.
Realistically, I would enter into a written agreement that by mm/dd/yyyy (however long paint lasts in your area)the bring and stucco must be returned to established colors (powerwashed, etc.).
Then if that wasn't complied with, I would take the issue through the courts.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
When were each of these violations observed and reported to the Board?
Assuming it wasn't over 4 or so years ago, I agree with Tim that the Board or property mgr. should send a letter--registered, return receipt requested -- demanding that the Owner remove the paint to expose the original material and paint the rest in an acceptable color. I guess I'd give him 6 weeks or so??
Do the same with the incorrect roof.
Make sure your comply with your HOA procedures and that they comply with LA state laws (if any), i.e., must your invite him to a hearing first, etc.
Assuming it wasn't over 4 or so years ago, I agree with Tim that the Board or property mgr. should send a letter--registered, return receipt requested -- demanding that the Owner remove the paint to expose the original material and paint the rest in an acceptable color. I guess I'd give him 6 weeks or so??
Do the same with the incorrect roof.
Make sure your comply with your HOA procedures and that they comply with LA state laws (if any), i.e., must your invite him to a hearing first, etc.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
So what is "A&A" again? If it's "architectural approval" then what's the ampersand doing in there between the two As?
ErinA1 (Illinois)
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
Ours is Alterations and Additions
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