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TimothyM3 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
How does a homeowner request detailed expenses reports. we have a management company who does the paperwork for our board. But we never get any minutes showing how we spend our money from the management company. Just a total of what's in our Reserve. I would like to know where it's all going. Is it the board's responsibility to give it to me or should it be the management company who's managing our expenses give it to me
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posted:
In my HOA, the management company provides it upon request. Ours provides a monthly report that includes YTD numbers, along with an annual report.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
I would request the information from the management company and if that doesn't work go to the Board. The minutes aren't going to give your the information you may be looking for. You might want to request a balance sheet and and income/expense statement that has year-to-date figures.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
I'm with Richard, ask the MC first and see if you get any response, otherwise go to the board.

Remember that the board is ultimately responsible for running the association, the MC works at the direction of the board to handle whatever duties they have been contracted to provide.

You don't mention if you are in an HOA or condo, but there are Florida statutes regulating both that you can enlist in your quest if needed. FS 720 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0720/0720.html) applies to HOAs, FS 718 (I'm less familiar with this, but there are some similarities) applies to condos.

720 requires associations to make records available for inspection and copying (may be costs involved if you use their copier, cell phone pics are free) of records within 10 days of a request, read the link for details. There is also a requirement for annual reporting, do you get an annual financial report or is one made available? If you have an MC they should be familiar with this, one of their duties should be to know FL law and help the board make sure all applicable laws are followed. Other posters here might chime in how 718 is similar or differs, or you can easily find it online and read it yourself. Since the laws are fairly long, search for things like "inspection" and "report" to find the relevant sections.

Please post back if you have any questions, there are quite a few Florida posters here who are familiar with what FL law requires.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I'd ask for the board meeting minutes as well as monthly income/expense reports - it's up to you to see how far back you want to go. For our association, our property manager provides a comparison of the budget line items (reserves and operating) vs. the actual income or expenses for that line item, so you can see how close the board is keeping to the budget. Ultimately, it's the board's responsibility to ensure homeowners get complete and accurate financial information upon request, so if the property manager is delaying, talk to the board - if they try to stonewall you too, it may be time to rally your neighbors together, vote them out and replace them with people who understand the importance of transparency.

I also like looking at the board meeting minutes so I can get more information behind the numbers. For example if you see a withdrawal from reserves, the minutes should be able to say something like the board approved repairs to roofs on five buildings. From there, if you have specific questions on certain accounts, you can ask them.

Another thing to keep in mind are delinquencies. It's one thing to budget for something, but when people can't or don't pay, the board has to make tough decisions on what gets paid and some things can't be put off. You won't be able to find out who's delinquent or not, but the board should be able to provide a summary - when I was on the board and worked on the newsletter, we published a summary stating X number were delinquent by 30, 60, 90, 120 or 120+ days, total amount owed and total number of accounts with the association attorney (we turn them over if the account remains unpaid after 60 days). You need to know if the board is monitoring the delinquencies and taking fair and consistent action to collect - and if not, be sure to ask why.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Send a certified letter to the board asking for it. They have 10 days to make it available to you. If the board has designated the management company as its agent to fulfill your request then it's up to them to forward the request to the management company.

FS 720.303(5)
"The official records shall be maintained within the state for at least 7 years and shall be made available to a parcel owner for inspection or photocopying within 45 miles of the community or within the county in which the association is located within 10 business days after receipt by the board or its designee of a written request."

An owner has an absolute right to inspect the official records of the association in Florida. I would make my first (and only) written request to the board. Make sure your request is specific and be prepared to pay for photocopies if you don't have a portable scanner.
ScottO1 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
You might not need to get all official on your request, are you neighbors with a board member? you might just ask them to see the monthly financials or visit the management company and ask to see them. I have gone to the management company and they seem to let me see them without a problem, the current President is my neighbor and she lets me see them each month no problem. Understand not all associations and management companies will be this easy to work with, and then you must exercise your right to associations records.

http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/lsc/condominiums.html has information and forms to use to request records

Scott
Palm Harbor FL
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Our accountant gave us a list at every meeting. Only had a few copies but we handed them out to any member who asked. It was what our meetings were about. Reviewing the expense report. We did NOT give out the Collections report to anyone else but board members. You could know about your individual account but not make it public. We would give an overview of what we collected that month and what expended.

Just ask or go to a board meeting. The management company is to do what the board tells them to do if things are working right. I would ask a board member for a copy of expense report if available. You may be charged for a copy as it does cost money to produce.

Former HOA President
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
ScottO1 is correct, of course. And hello, Scott, welcome to the forums. Sometimes all you need to do is ask. That's how it is here in my HOA, whatever else might be going on the board has never been difficult to deal with when it comes to the records. I asked to see some things at the first board meeting I ever went to and I had them less than 24 hours later.

I just assume, probably incorrectly, that when people come here seeking information or advice on their right to see the official records of an association in Florida, that they've already asked nicely and encountered the runaround. It is the single biggest complaint against condos and HOAs in Florida, so maybe my assumption isn't way out of line with reality.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
I agree with Scott and Geno ... first ask. Any HOA who is running above board and honestly will immediately provide the information. You should also receive annually budget information to be approved by your members at your annual meeting. Depending on your HOA this can be more or less detailed. I find that smaller HOA's tend to be more detailed while larger HOA's tend to condense their larger information. A well run HOA should have nothing to hide.
TimothyM3 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thank you all for advice.... I took it all I asked board member for Financial, said he would send to me. Have not received yet. Also ask for copy of managements contract. No one seems to have one! President asked MC and they said he needed to send a certified letter of request!? So I sent one to our MC ( First Choice )asking for financials and contract..... Lets see what happens. Thanks Tim in S. Florida
DanN3 (Florida)
Posts: 91
Posted:
In Florida the level of reporting financial is determined by factors such as size and amount of association dues received. Some associations require a full audit others only a review and others just a compilation. These reports are usually, at least, offered to the owners within I think 90 days after the end of the fiscal year. They represent real money obtained, spent and reserved. Budgets, projecting future income and expenses, are developed depending on what the governing Docs say in HOA's and when silent on the matter default to statute, etc. Budgets are at least offered to the owners and there is often meetings leading up to the development of a budget. By way of budget transfers, budgets can be altered by the board during the fiscal year and money allocated for a subject is not required to be spent on it.

Since financial records are association records one could obtain such by demand. See Statute 720, See if arbitration is required if records request is denied or ignored and check to see if the association has established reasonable rules for the obtaining access to association records. There are some differences between condominiums and homeowner associations. I could not tell if you are living under Ch 718 or Ch 720 when making my comments.
TimothyM3 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thank you all 4 your inputs. No response in anyway for my request for financials and minutes from our Management company! I sent certified letter requesting that information and a copy of their contract to our association. Here in Palm Beach county Fl. im not sure what section 718 or 720 we are under. No one on board has a copy of contract, and has no idea of what their responsibilities are. Rumor has it that our management company ( First Choice ) does not have to send contract, that only the President can request one! I would like to read it because I feel they are in breech of their contract. Is that true? Am I not allowed to read the contract?
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimothyM3 on 08/13/2017 8:07 AM
Thank you all 4 your inputs. No response in anyway for my request for financials and minutes from our Management company! I sent certified letter requesting that information and a copy of their contract to our association. Here in Palm Beach county Fl. im not sure what section 718 or 720 we are under. No one on board has a copy of contract, and has no idea of what their responsibilities are. Rumor has it that our management company ( First Choice ) does not have to send contract, that only the President can request one! I would like to read it because I feel they are in breech of their contract. Is that true? Am I not allowed to read the contract?

FS720 is for HOAs, 718 for condos. In 720 at least, you can request to inspect/copy the association records and they have to allow it within 10 days or be subject to a $50 a day penalty for the next 10, as I recall. You can also make copies, but they can charge if you use their equipment, so unless you happen to have a laptop and portable scanner, have your phone handy and just take pictures.

Assuming the MC maintains the records, they should have all contracts, including theirs and you should be able to inspect it. There are only a few things that are aren't allowed to see, vendor contracts are not generally one of them, except possibly attorney paperwork in some cases.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Tim

I can only tell you how my association does it.

Each month the BOD get about a 10 page financial statement/summary including anyone delinquent, fines, etc. Any owner can request an Email copy. The report the owner gets will not have delinquencies, fines, etc. I know of only one or two owners that requested such and each did one time only.

At our Annual Meeting the owners are given a financial statement/summary about 3 pages long. There then follows a Q&A Session about it. We have few questions.

Most of the complaints I have heard come from new buyers who do not understand how our HOA works. A lot of the incorrect information they were given was from the seller and real estate agents. Examples:

There is one unit for sale and when I looked a the real estate listing it says HOA Dues of $150. Ours are $600 per year, paid quarterly at $150 per quarter. I sent two Emails to the listing agent telling them this. They have not corrected the listing. Bad info form the get go.

One new owner asked me about the promised Gazebo overhanging the retention pond. I informed her that the person she bought from requested such at every Annual Meeting and was told no, we are not going to do it. She said he said it was planned.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimothyM3 on 08/13/2017 8:07 AM
Thank you all 4 your inputs. No response in anyway for my request for financials and minutes from our Management company! I sent certified letter requesting that information and a copy of their contract to our association. Here in Palm Beach county Fl. im not sure what section 718 or 720 we are under. No one on board has a copy of contract, and has no idea of what their responsibilities are. Rumor has it that our management company ( First Choice ) does not have to send contract, that only the President can request one! I would like to read it because I feel they are in breech of their contract. Is that true? Am I not allowed to read the contract?

Timothy, you have an absolute right to see that contract. If the management company will only send a copy to the president then it is up to the president to give you access to it. Also, please don't name the managment company, that's against the site's posting rules.

If you live in an HOA then it is covered under FS 720. If you live in a condo then it is covered under FS 718. Both have the same provision regarding inspection of official records.

The association is responsible for giving you access to the official records, not the management company. Did you sent a certified letter requesting the information to your board? Did you get a return receipt that it was delivered?

FS 720.303(4) defines what the official records are, and that includes:
"A current copy of all contracts to which the association is a party, including, without limitation, any management agreement, lease, or other contract under which the association has any obligation or responsibility."

FS 720.303(5)(a) and (b) say:
"The failure of an association to provide access to the records within 10 business days after receipt of a written request submitted by certified mail, return receipt requested, creates a rebuttable presumption that the association willfully failed to comply with this subsection."

"A member who is denied access to official records is entitled to the actual damages or minimum damages for the association’s willful failure to comply with this subsection. The minimum damages are to be $50 per calendar day up to 10 days, the calculation to begin on the 11th business day after receipt of the written request."

Count off 10 business days from the date the letter was delivered. Beginning on the next business day the association owes you (at least) damages of $50 per day up to a maximum of $500. Find out what you need to do to sue for the $500 in Small Claims Court.

You are not alone having this problem, Timothy. Getting access to your association's official records is the single most common complaint against homeowners and condo associations.

Here's another resource for you ->linky<-
TimothyM3 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thank you again. we are a townhome condo association. Guess its FS 718. will try to find it in the statutes. print it and show it to board and MC representative. You would think the MC would at least send a email, telling me something! ..... nothing
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Townhomes may be FS 720 HOAs or FS 718 condos. Check your governing documents, if it's a condo there should be a "Declaration of Condominium" filed with the county. Otherwise, it's probably an HOA. The management company ignoring you is, unfortunately, not unusual.
GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
Records Request--the Number #1 complaint of homeowners against their associations in Florida. Florida attempted to attach a criminal penalty to condos that refused to fulfill records requests, but the pushback from condo attorneys and CAI was so great that this provision was eliminated from the bill. Why is there such resistance to allowing owner access to business records? (Discuss amongst yourselves.)

You can also take advantage of CONDOS privilege of appealing to the DBPR to resolve disputes. In HOA's, one has only Small Claims court or private litigation. CONDOS however, are assessed $4 per unit annually and can refer complaints to the state regulatory agency-- Dept of Bus Regulation. The DPBR is in the business of screening out complaints, so make sure you have made TWO certified requests and been refused or ignored. Excellent documentation is critical to clear the high bar established by the DPBR "investigator".

You could also file a complaint to the Florida agency that "regulates" CAMS. Florida has a statute that states that CAMs must comply with Florida Homeowner Statutes. You will need two homeowners to sign a complaint.

Starting July 1, 2018, ALL CONDO documents will have to be posted on the community website; ALL financial reports, ALL contracts, ALL Minutes etc. A mirror bill will be submitted next year for HOA's.
DanN3 (Florida)
Posts: 91
Posted:
Gwen,

Regarding what starts July 1, 2018, could you point me to the enabling statue or bill ?
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
There is information here: http://www.ccfj.net/CCFJLegSess17.html

Click on the link that says, "2017 Florida Condominium and Homeowners Association Legislation", the 10th one down from the top.
DanN3 (Florida)
Posts: 91
Posted:
Geno,

From multiple sources, I heard that Gov Scott vetoed bill 653 on 6/26/17.

TimothyM3 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thanks for the help. Management company called yesterday! said I could come on in and get copies of financials and Inspect (only) their contract to us. no copies or photos allowed. I went right to the part about record keeping of monthly meetings. Their it was..... their responsibility to take and deliver detailed minutes of meetings. I mentioned it to the secretary with me. she said she would inform her boss. I've been asking for minutes for about a year! at every meeting I attended! I feel they are in default of their contract, what do you think?
DanN3 (Florida)
Posts: 91
Posted:
However Bill 1237 is now law, effective 7/1 and that affects Fla. condos.

Senate bill 398 is also now law and affects Fla. HOA's.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimothyM3 on 08/16/2017 4:28 AM
Thanks for the help. Management company called yesterday! said I could come on in and get copies of financials and Inspect (only) their contract to us. no copies or photos allowed. I went right to the part about record keeping of monthly meetings. Their it was..... their responsibility to take and deliver detailed minutes of meetings. I mentioned it to the secretary with me. she said she would inform her boss. I've been asking for minutes for about a year! at every meeting I attended! I feel they are in default of their contract, what do you think?

They have to make copies for you or allow you to make your own copies, which would include snapping photos with a camera, or using a portable scanner. It's ultimately the board's responsibility to keep the meeting minutes for 7 years. The board can contract that task out to someone else, such as a management company, but it's the BOARD'S responsibility to provide you with what you want to see. Keep in mind they can impose a reasonable charge for paper copies of things, if that's what you want, and they can limit to reasonable times the when & where of the location. If you ultimately collect the $50/day damages it will come out of the HOAs pocket, not the management company's.

No copies and no photos = no compliance with the statute. Get it in writing that they will not provide copies or allow you to snap photos of the records. If they tell you to put your camera away, politely decline and point them to FS 720.303(5)

"An association shall allow a member or his or her authorized representative to use a portable device, including a smartphone, tablet, portable scanner, or any other technology capable of scanning or taking photographs, to make an electronic copy of the official records in lieu of the association’s providing the member or his or her authorized representative with a copy of such records."

Sounds like you have got their attention. Stay polite but stand firm.

Bring a friend to be a witness when you go. You cannot legally record an oral conversation in Florida unless both parties are aware of the recording and consent, so you can't set your smartphone to record and hope to use that as evidence. I'd bring a witness.

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