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AngieS1 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Can we sue the HOA for the following:

1. Not giving us the right to pick board members through election. We literally have no idea who they are. We are never reminded of any elections at all.

2. The property manager comes up with parking rules randomly without our consent and even without notifying us of those rules before execution. For instance, once he started sticking warning reports to parked cars with no registration stickers. It then suddenly stopped. Another time, we found the towing trucks actively and regularly seeking for cars parked next to garage in the afternoon. That also disappeared.

There is towing rule for street parking also. For instance, we can park a car in a specific place for 72 hours. If it is not removed first we are supposed to get a warning note attached to the car. Strangely, once my car was towed. I did later pay the tow company and brought it back. But I was very suspicious of what happened and thus pressured the manager to show me evidence that he did attack warning to my car. He never provided it. Instead, he gave me refund of my money.

3. Out of the blue, just a week ago, we were told of a new parking rule. There can be only one car outside and that's with permit. This property manager and guard lied to us in emails and text messages that they based on election votes. The people who went to the meeting told us there was no election. The manager just came and read the new rules.

4. They told us of a meeting yesterday. All of us home owners showed up but then they told us there would be no meeting. They distributed the permits and rejected any talks with us. Board members didn't show up though they were supposed to.

5. The new parking rule is irrational and unsafe for all of us. Our community streets are huge with a wide variety of titles. It is like a city inside another city, but only gated. But just outside the gate, it is tremendously unsafe.

First of all, there is no parking spot outside the community. It is a long winding road. If anyone wants to park they basically have to do it two signals away in a place where car vandalism, shooting and snatching of stuffs are too common. One person was murdered just outside the wall I could see from my room. The detective came to us to ask questions about that case when he told us of the gruesome truth about that area and we almost fainted! It helped us realize why it takes almost a year for someone to sell their homes outside the community.

Later we came across more cases like that including open shooting between kids right at the signals with one dead. Another neighbor complained of how his car was vandalized there. We also risk getting our cars towed two signals away because that’s another residential area. Many among us work at night after 10pm. My own sister has no schedule because she is a researcher. Sometimes she has to go to lab at 2am. Another one goes to college and sometimes have to come home at 10pm.

Now here is the problem, our property manager has no idea how many rooms each house has. The ones with 4 bedrooms like ours have big families. Hence, some of us have 4 to 5 cars. All homes, however, come with two car garage. We have 4 cars and they are all needed. So we do utilize our garage. Yesterday, they gave out one parking permit to each house. The irrationality here is that the homes that are small and have two cars don’t require a permit. They can easily leave their two cars inside their garage. The permit now will make it easy for them to keep only one inside. Meanwhile, all of us with 4 to 5 cars are being forced to park outside the gated community. We have some owners who are disabled. The property manager declined to talk with them saying he can’t do anything.

Note that this community is way too different from what we normally see outside. All homes come with their own gates and yards.

6. With one permit rule, the community will just have way too much space. We just don't get what would be the meaning of this.

7. The new rule involves not giving the new password of the gate to home owners. Unfortunately, each house comes with only one gate remote.

8. He also has a plan to tow utility service vehicles if their drivers don't report to them every 10 minutes. In fact, he said he must be told that if such vehicles enter the community. But he doesn't even answer our calls ever.

We are very scared for our cars and safety now. With those points above, can we sue HOA? We are very frustrated because the manager pretends like he has no choice ever. We tried talking to our security guard so she would pass the info to him. But instead of that, she told us to sell our cars.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Angie,

You can sue anyone for anything. To determine how to best present a case so you might win you need to talk with a local attorney.

Are you under declarant control or homeowner control in your Association?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Lawsuits are very damaging to you as an owner/member as well as all you neighbors. It's unclear who is in charge at this point. The issue seems to be that your HOA is giving too much power to the MC to control things. They aren't to make the rules the owners are. Unless your HOA is still under declarant control, the power to make changes in your HOA is in the hands of you and your fellow members.

I'd suggest reading your CC&R's and Articles of Incorporation. Find out what it takes to make rules and rules changes. What are the exact election rules and notifications? What can be done about having the MC contract put out to bid? I would gather some support and some bids on options for a new MC. You want better, then do better by finding the answers.

Former HOA President
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Angie, I would first visit with your local ombudsman. They would be able to guide you in the right direction. Your governing documents will also be helpful to read over and google any term or phrase that you are not clear about. I think different counties have strict rules on towing cars, perhaps you should visit that regulatory agency and get a copy of the rules that tow truck companies need to follow regarding the towing of vehicles from private property.

Yes. Owners need to be notified when and where a HOA meeting takes place
AngieS1 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/23/2017 10:24 AM
Angie,

homeowner control in your Association?

Yes, it is about homeowner control

Thanks guys for the reply. We checked the state laws. It seems they violated the ones about meetings. Thus, we have to get the state involved in this. We met some owners today and they are angry also. One man has started to work on it on everyone's behalf, but we too like to do something about it also.
AngieS1 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Sorry about the typos. It has been quite stressful for all of us.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
We are not asking if the issue is "owner control" We are asking if your HOA is UNDER owner control. Is your Developer still in control?

Sometimes dealing with things in your own back yard is where you need to start. It's where it's going to end. Don't get lost in the woods. First find out what you all want to happen in the end. Then you work toward that goal. Which usually starts by reading your CC&R's, Bylaws, and Articles of Incorporation.

No reason can't have a special meeting to discuss replacing the MC and finding 2 - 3 other bids. Plus you may want to take the power from the new/existing MC from making up the rules. Read the contract to find out why and if they are supposed to do that or follow the HOA request.

The MC is a hired contractor of the HOA. It shouldn't be making up the rules. Just enforcing the ones your HOA has and is filed. It's a whole process and usually NOT just a board vote to implement or create. They can to a point but there's still a process to be followed.

Former HOA President
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
What no one has brought up is that in California, any new rule being proposed must be sent to the Owner for a 30 day comment period prior to the Board voting to approve and implement.

It is not unusual for a MC to create rules based on common sense and your governing documents. BUT, they can't be implemented until the Board votes to send to Owner for 30 days prior to the Board voting.
AngieS1 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/24/2017 5:05 AM
We are not asking if the issue is "owner control" We are asking if your HOA is UNDER owner control. Is your Developer still in control?

Sometimes dealing with things in your own back yard is where you need to start. It's where it's going to end. Don't get lost in the woods. First find out what you all want to happen in the end. Then you work toward that goal. Which usually starts by reading your CC&R's, Bylaws, and Articles of Incorporation.

No reason can't have a special meeting to discuss replacing the MC and finding 2 - 3 other bids. Plus you may want to take the power from the new/existing MC from making up the rules. Read the contract to find out why and if they are supposed to do that or follow the HOA request.

The MC is a hired contractor of the HOA. It shouldn't be making up the rules. Just enforcing the ones your HOA has and is filed. It's a whole process and usually NOT just a board vote to implement or create. They can to a point but there's still a process to be followed.

Yes, HOA is under owner control. No developer is involved. They are supposed to be from our community. We sent a request to get their addresses for us along with some other info we need. What you suggested is also what I was thinking. It is not right to get things sour with HOA if we want him removed. We need to discuss for a variance due to tremendous irrationality of the rule.

We did hear complaints that he is quite used to lying.

Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 07/24/2017 7:55 AM
What no one has brought up is that in California, any new rule being proposed must be sent to the Owner for a 30 day comment period prior to the Board voting to approve and implement.

It is not unusual for a MC to create rules based on common sense and your governing documents. BUT, they can't be implemented until the Board votes to send to Owner for 30 days prior to the Board voting.

Could you tell me the title of that law?

Are the meetings of this year even valid? By law, they are supposed to send us annual policy statement through which we can let them know how we would like to get notified. We have nothing like that here. I have just come to know that the meeting was done in May. But we were told about the rule last week.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
The section for changing rules is:

Civil Code §4360. Notice and Approval of Rule Change by Board.
[Old: Civ. Code §1357.130]

(a) The board shall provide general notice pursuant to Section 4045 of a proposed rule change at least 30 days before making the rule change. The notice shall include the text of the proposed rule change and a description of the purpose and effect of the proposed rule change. Notice is not required under this subdivision if the board determines that an immediate rule change is necessary to address an imminent threat to public health or safety or imminent risk of substantial economic loss to the association.

(b) A decision on a proposed rule change shall be made at a board meeting, after consideration of any comments made by association members.

(c) As soon as possible after making a rule change, but not more than 15 days after making the rule change, the board shall deliver general notice pursuant to Section 4045 of the rule change. If the rule change was an emergency rule change made under subdivision (d), the notice shall include the text of the rule change, a description of the purpose and effect of the rule change, and the date that the rule change expires.

(d) If the board determines that an immediate rule change is required to address an imminent threat to public health or safety, or an imminent risk of substantial economic loss to the association, it may make an emergency rule change, and no notice is required, as specified in subdivision (a). An emergency rule change is effective for 120 days, unless the rule change provides for a shorter effective period. A rule change made under this subdivision may not be readopted under this subdivision.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
It would be less expensive to replace your current BOD and then reign in or replace the mgmt company if owner's do not like how the HOA is currently being ran. A lawsuit will cost a lot of money and no guarantee will end the way you want ...
AngieS1 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 07/24/2017 9:08 AM
The section for changing rules is:

Civil Code §4360. Notice and Approval of Rule Change by Board.
[Old: Civ. Code §1357.130]

(a) The board shall provide general notice pursuant to Section 4045 of a proposed rule change at least 30 days before making the rule change. The notice shall include the text of the proposed rule change and a description of the purpose and effect of the proposed rule change. Notice is not required under this subdivision if the board determines that an immediate rule change is necessary to address an imminent threat to public health or safety or imminent risk of substantial economic loss to the association.

(b) A decision on a proposed rule change shall be made at a board meeting, after consideration of any comments made by association members.

(c) As soon as possible after making a rule change, but not more than 15 days after making the rule change, the board shall deliver general notice pursuant to Section 4045 of the rule change. If the rule change was an emergency rule change made under subdivision (d), the notice shall include the text of the rule change, a description of the purpose and effect of the rule change, and the date that the rule change expires.

(d) If the board determines that an immediate rule change is required to address an imminent threat to public health or safety, or an imminent risk of substantial economic loss to the association, it may make an emergency rule change, and no notice is required, as specified in subdivision (a). An emergency rule change is effective for 120 days, unless the rule change provides for a shorter effective period. A rule change made under this subdivision may not be readopted under this subdivision.

Thanks for it. Wow, our HOA seems to be from another planet.They don't abide by any state and federal rules.

Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 07/25/2017 12:31 PM
It would be less expensive to replace your current BOD and then reign in or replace the mgmt company if owner's do not like how the HOA is currently being ran. A lawsuit will cost a lot of money and no guarantee will end the way you want ...

I think we will be victims of multiple lawsuits because they triggered action without meeting at least twice this year.

We all know our cars will not be secure two signals away. We are also expecting physical harm because it is all dark out there with of course, regular dark incidents.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hope you estimated a very HIGH probability of WINNING. Because I can tell you first hand any lawsuit can be expensive and you will have to pay your attorney up front. Are you and your neighbors willing to fork out $10,000 to $100,000 for any lawsuit??? Potentially depending on your State Laws you might recoup your legal fees and more. But the question is what financial LOSS can you prove with regards to not having prior meetings ... NONE. So how much money do you want to spend on a lawsuit vs doing a BOD recall or simply replacing at a future meeting?
AngieS1 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 07/27/2017 12:56 AM
Hope you estimated a very HIGH probability of WINNING. Because I can tell you first hand any lawsuit can be expensive and you will have to pay your attorney up front. Are you and your neighbors willing to fork out $10,000 to $100,000 for any lawsuit??? Potentially depending on your State Laws you might recoup your legal fees and more. But the question is what financial LOSS can you prove with regards to not having prior meetings ... NONE. So how much money do you want to spend on a lawsuit vs doing a BOD recall or simply replacing at a future meeting?

Lawsuit is coming our way because HOA broke the rules.

If HOA is sued by a homeowner for vandalism of his car it will proven quite easily that they indeed didn't give anyone the chance to speak. It is quite probable that then we all have to pay for the damages. Moreover, the parking rule was made by hearing tenants. They are not supposed to have any voice because they are not the owners.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AngieS1 on 07/27/2017 8:16 PM
Posted By JanetB2 on 07/27/2017 12:56 AM
Hope you estimated a very HIGH probability of WINNING. Because I can tell you first hand any lawsuit can be expensive and you will have to pay your attorney up front. Are you and your neighbors willing to fork out $10,000 to $100,000 for any lawsuit??? Potentially depending on your State Laws you might recoup your legal fees and more. But the question is what financial LOSS can you prove with regards to not having prior meetings ... NONE. So how much money do you want to spend on a lawsuit vs doing a BOD recall or simply replacing at a future meeting?


Lawsuit is coming our way because HOA broke the rules.

If HOA is sued by a homeowner for vandalism of his car it will proven quite easily that they indeed didn't give anyone the chance to speak. It is quite probable that then we all have to pay for the damages. Moreover, the parking rule was made by hearing tenants. They are not supposed to have any voice because they are not the owners.

Can only hope all your members have deep pockets ... when alternative is to REPLACE the BOD. Potentially will cost many tens of thousands of dollars for homeowners to pay their attorney PLUS the money they contribute for the HOA attorney via your dues assessments. Agree tenants are not owners; however, if this has not been addressed or taken care of by your BOD they should be replaced vs costly lawsuit. Been there and done that ... However, our owners via no lawsuit could have had loss of many tens or hundreds of thousands per owner which could be proven. You potentially will spend MORE in legal fees than what you potentially can recoup and only if your state allowa he/she who wins to request repayment of said fees. When I pick my battles I have estimated a very high percentage of winning and must be for high dollar value ... sorry ... I just do not see it in your situation.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Why not use Small Claims Court?

$100.00 filing fee..Maximum payout is $5000.00

Each provable offense is $500.00. I could find 10, that $5000.00

Not sure how any one can suggest tens of thousands of dollars. To me that is just a scare tactic.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Agree small claims in a possible option. However, Richard can you provide info where even the $5,000 you noted as the maximum COST would benefit the OP??? YEP ... the OP can pay $5,000 maximum for small claims; however, do they get reimbursed if they are in the right? Or do they just EAT $5,000 in a small claims court? What you might claim as a scare tactic I would state is being a realist who can provide proof on said costs ... After all I in past did pay those costs initially in a lawsuit until the court made a determination. As I noted you need to determine a HIGH probability of winning.

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