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LV (South Carolina)
Posts: 38
Posted:
In the bylaws, they state that passing a motion via email has to be unanimous. Well, an email was sent around and it was approved by the board 3-2. Since it wasn't done electronically the motion didn't pass and it has to be unanimous anyway. Does that mean that the board can't move to another motion when they meet in person?

In person motion with the board means majority vote. So there was a board meeting and the motion was brought up again. This time, the person who brought up the motion said: " I don't know if we can do another motion on this since it didn't pass electronically". This caused confusion because just because it didn't pass electronically doesn't mean you can't do another motion.

The question is since you need unanimous vote via email and it didn't pass, does that mean you can't motion again in person? Bylaws have no mention of this at all. Please advise?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LV on 07/17/2017 8:25 PM

Does that mean that the board can't move to another motion when they meet in person?

No. Motions and decisions can be revisited.

Quote:
Posted By LV on 07/17/2017 8:25 PM

So there was a board meeting and the motion was brought up again. This time, the person who brought up the motion said: " I don't know if we can do another motion on this since it didn't pass electronically". This caused confusion because just because it didn't pass electronically doesn't mean you can't do another motion.

If you can't quell the confusion amongst yourselves or through research, seek a legal opinion (cost: $300 to $600)

Quote:
Posted By LV on 07/17/2017 8:25 PM

The question is since you need unanimous vote via email and it didn't pass, does that mean you can't motion again in person? Bylaws have no mention of this at all. Please advise?

An action without meeting (what you call vote via email) requires unanimous consent.

Motions at a meeting, as you know, only require a simple majority to decide.

Actions without meetings should only be used for issues that can not wait. If you can revisit the issue at a meeting, then the action without meeting was used improperly (just food for thought - has zero bearing on your question).

As I posted earlier, yes one can revisit any past decision of the board at any meeting.
There is nothing I know of that prevents it.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
In California, Action Without A Meeting were eliminated in 2012 because of rampant abuse. More importantly, a requirement was that decisions made via email, or "without a meeting" were supposed to be recorded in the next open session's minutes. It wasn't being done, so decisions ultimately were being done in secret.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 07/17/2017 9:52 PM

In California, Action Without A Meeting were eliminated in 2012 . . .

Well, the name was.
The process is the same - the name was changed to emergency meetings see: Civil Code §4910

However, even though the name was changed from action without meeting to emergency meeting, the process was drastically curtailed by the requirement for holding an emergency meeting (action without meeting). Emergency meetings can only be held "if there are circumstances that could not have been reasonably foreseen which require immediate attention . . ." See Civil Code §4923.

Very few things require immediate action (i.e. something that can't wait a few days).
Fewer things can't be reasonably foreseen.

Contrary to thinking CA eliminated actions without meeting, the statutes show that it is simply called a different name.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/17/2017 11:38 PM
Posted By RichardP13 on 07/17/2017 9:52 PM

In California, Action Without A Meeting were eliminated in 2012 . . .


Well, the name was.
The process is the same - the name was changed to emergency meetings see: Civil Code §4910

However, even though the name was changed from action without meeting to emergency meeting, the process was drastically curtailed by the requirement for holding an emergency meeting (action without meeting). Emergency meetings can only be held "if there are circumstances that could not have been reasonably foreseen which require immediate attention . . ." See Civil Code §4923.

Very few things require immediate action (i.e. something that can't wait a few days).
Fewer things can't be reasonably foreseen.

Contrary to thinking CA eliminated actions without meeting, the statutes show that it is simply called a different name.

https://www.hoalawblog.com/2011/09/governor_brown_signs_sb_563_sa.html

You might want to give Congressman Mark DeSaulnier (CA-11) a call. He works out of Washington D.C these days.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I don't care how they spin it. Spin is what politicians do.
In fact, George Carlin did a great bit on it:

George Carlin - National Press Club from YouTube (advance to 10:45 for the start of how politicians spin)

I'm simply reading the statute that says the same process that was used for actions without meetings (unanimous consent - typically via email) can be used for emergency meetings.
LV (South Carolina)
Posts: 38
Posted:
Thank you. What i thought as well and wanted to confirm. Thanks for everyone's input.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Yes, as you now know, LV. Your Board can place this same matter on your agenda and vote on it at a board meeting.

Why didn't your Board just wait until your next regular meeting? Imo, action without a meeting should be used, as Tim points out, very sparingly.

We certainly can take action without a meeting in CA so long as it's an emergency meeting as defined by Tim. No, I'm not going to contact the name Richard dropped.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
The name I dropped is the State Senator, at the time, that SB563 was passed and signed in to law, who authored the bill. I had two questions, was "Action Without a Meeting" being eliminated and can Board members email between meetings. The reason for the research was I sat on a Legislative Action Committee for a local chapter of CAI.

Action Without a Meeting, Corporation Code §7211 still exists for corporations, just not CID's, EXCEPT for "Emergency Meetings" The complaints that came in stated that no one was aware of actions Boards were taking. One of the provisions of §7211 was that the actions were to be filed with the minutes at the next meeting.

While AWAM wasn't eliminated, it was "defined". For the abusers, you could say it was eliminated. I have seen the minutes of many Boards that have used AWAM and followed the rules of communicating to their members actions taken on their behalf.

AWAM is a corporate procedure throughout the country. You generally will find that procedure in almost all Bylaws of HOA's from coast to coast. I generally don't have an issue with the procedure as long as the intent is followed. Unfortunately, the acts of a few, or many, precipitated the necessary change in California.

I believe California is the only state to eliminate AWAM, as a standard practice, most other states can still use that procedure. What may need to be followed is making sure, IF the AWAM doesn't have unanimous consent through email, that it follows proper state procedures, if any, to place on the next meeting's agenda.

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