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What happens when a bank escrows payments for a homeowner that is delinquent on hoa dues

Started by JimC2414 replies • 1346 views

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JimC24 (Connecticut)
Posts: 60
Posted:
The collection process was initiated on a homeowner at my condo to recover delinquent hoa dues. The bank that holds the mortgage indicated that they would escrow the account to keep the homeowner current on hoa dues and protect their investment. It seems like putting these payments into escrow would not be a bad choice for the homeowner because it would spread the payments out over a longer period of time vs. having to pay everything at once or face foreclosure. But it seems that the homeowner is not in favor of this solution. Does anyone know the negative implications of this escrow solution for a homeowner that I might be missing.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JimC24 on 07/14/2017 3:22 AM
Does anyone know the negative implications of this escrow solution for a homeowner that I might be missing.

Higher mortgage payments.

If they can't afford the payments, an HOA/COA is less likely to foreclose then a bank. Hence by keeping the assessments out of escrow, the owner has more of a choice on what payments to ignore (expecting that they want to keep their home). Basically the perception of more loss of control.

Issue for Association: Mortgages are sold and sometimes the servicer of the note changes. This will require the Association to pay closer attention when they mail out annual assessment notices.

Those are the ones I can think of.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
I t is highly unusual for a servicing company to get involved in a HOA collection process. As Tim pointed out, mortgage loans do get sold and other servicers will take over. Also, if HOA is managed, those relationships change hands. Officers on a Board, if self-managed, also change.

My understanding is that real estate escrows in Connecticut are handled by attorneys, who have direct access to title records. That isn't the case across the country. In my state, Northern California escrows are handled exclusively by title companies, while Southern California escrows are handled by neither title companies or escrow companies.

The homeowner may not like having their dues escrowed, but tough. There is language in the Security Instrument to protect the investor, (bank).
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
There are different types of escrow. Perhaps the bank is going to raise their mortgage payment to include the HOA payment and put that in their escrow account that pays the home owners insurance and taxes.

Because HOA's have super priority over banks here in Nevada, 2 different bills failed in the last 2 legislative sessions that would allow mortgage companies to include HOA payments in the monthly mortgage.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
We tried that while I was at Countrywide, setting up an escrow account for HOA dues. Will never happen!
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
One of the factors when I purchased my HOA was the HOA fees. We paid $50 a month. Which is in addition to my mortgage payment. I could have bought a bigger more expensive house without an HOA. Instead I bought a smaller house with pool, lawncare, garbage pickup, and clubhouse access built in. Those expenses separately would be much more than $50 a month in a non-HOA home.

Now here is the "rub". That $50 HOA dues also puts me at risk of foreclosure if I don't pay it. I skip that payment, the HOA can lien/foreclose. If I skip just my mortgage, then the bank comes in and forecloses. If I escrow that into my mortgage, I would be at the higher expense of had purchased the non-HOA home. Well kind of screwed even more, I miss mortgage payment with the escrow factored in, the bank's going foreclose.

So no I would not take the escrow option unless very desperate or think I can catch up somehow on payments.

Former HOA President
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/14/2017 3:14 PM
One of the factors when I purchased my HOA was the HOA fees. We paid $50 a month. Which is in addition to my mortgage payment. I could have bought a bigger more expensive house without an HOA. Instead I bought a smaller house with pool, lawncare, garbage pickup, and clubhouse access built in. Those expenses separately would be much more than $50 a month in a non-HOA home.

Now here is the "rub". That $50 HOA dues also puts me at risk of foreclosure if I don't pay it. I skip that payment, the HOA can lien/foreclose. If I skip just my mortgage, then the bank comes in and forecloses. If I escrow that into my mortgage, I would be at the higher expense of had purchased the non-HOA home. Well kind of screwed even more, I miss mortgage payment with the escrow factored in, the bank's going foreclose.

So no I would not take the escrow option unless very desperate or think I can catch up somehow on payments.

The escrow option for HOA dues is NOT AVAILABLE!
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I know it's not. Just posting what it would mean if it was.

Former HOA President
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Having wrestled with delinquencies A LOT while I was my Board treasurer, I think escrowing the assessments is a great idea - if more mortgage companies did this, perhaps homeowners would have a more realistic idea on the cost of homeownership and determine if they could really afford it.

The problem our HOA ran into we would pursue a foreclosure after tying everything else to collect and then the mortgage company would swoop in and do their own. The mortgage company has the upper hand because they have the secured interest in the house, and must be paid before it changes hands, and most times there wasn't enough in the selling price to pay us and them, and so our lien would be washed out. We could try to pursue the homeowner because his/her debt with the association remained, but as many of you know, there usually wasn't anything left or the homeowner would declare bankruptcy and we'd still be hosed.

In a few states you have a super lien law which would put the HOA ahead of the mortgage company as far as the liens go - I think it depended on who filed first and HOAs usually got to the courthouse before the mortgage company did. Tax liens of course, trump everything. Perhaps this mortgage company got burned enough times and understand the importance of HOA assessments - depending on what they cover, it can keep the house is somewhat presentable shape and if they go ahead and do their own foreclosure, they might stand a better chance of getting most of their money back.

If this homeowner is delinquent and the bank is willing to step in and pay them, the only thing I would care about as a board member (and homeowner, for that matter) is the HOA getting its assessments so this homeowner pays his/her fair share of expenses. I could care less how he or she ain't happy about a higher monthly payment or a longer mortgage. Maybe next time, he/she will pay assessments in full and on time and avoid this drama!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 07/17/2017 5:08 AM

If this homeowner is delinquent and the bank is willing to step in and pay them, the only thing I would care about as a board member (and homeowner, for that matter) is the HOA getting its assessments so this homeowner pays his/her fair share of expenses. I could care less how he or she ain't happy about a higher monthly payment or a longer mortgage.

Shelia,

You may have missed the point that, per the OP, the homeowner has to agree to this change in the mortgage and that they do not agree to it. Hence, the assessments will not be escrowed.

The original question was: why would someone not want to have assessments escrowed?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Nope, I didn't miss that - the only reason I suspect a homeowner wouldn't want the assessments escrowed is it would increase the monthly payment or the length of the loan. It's one thing for a mortgage to go up because of a change in the property tax rate - that may amount to a few dollars as opposed to an increase in assessments which could be another $10 or $20, possibly more. Maybe the homeowner finds his/her budget easier to manage if he/she cuts two checks instead of one.

Another thought - I'm sure the mortgage company would come up with another way to add some sort of fee (likely overpriced) to the mortgage to cover its expense for contacting the association to find out the upcoming year's assessment and adjust the payment accordingly. That could be a reason to object to the assessment being escrowed.

I'm sure money's the main driver for objecting to this, although I suppose a third reason could be if the homeowner has another reason he/she hasn't paid the assessment, like "I'm not getting all the services that the assessments are supposed to pay for" or "The board is too secretive/wasteful with the assessments" and so on.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
When homeowners qualify for a mortgage, HOA dues are calculated into the DTI (Debt-to-Income) ratio, so they would know what ownership costs are. There are front end DTI and back end DTI. HOA dues are calculated in the front end DTI ratio.

Impounding HOA dues into an escrow account will never happen. There are way too many unknowns for servicers to address.

HOA dues tied with loans in collection might be a possibility, but it depends on the size of the servicer. If large, then the likelihood is remote.

A rule of thumb was that if the LTV (loan to value) or CLTV (combined loan to value) were over 80%, taxes and insurances were automatically impounded. 10 years ago when bank saving rates were higher, it made economic sense for lenders to set up escrow account. Not so much today, they probably either break-even or lose money or handling escrow accounts.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 07/18/2017 9:12 AM
10 years ago when bank saving rates were higher, it made economic sense for lenders to set up escrow account. Not so much today, they probably either break-even or lose money or handling escrow accounts.

I've not heard of it being done, but it would seem to me that the main potential advantage to lenders is to not have the HOA foreclose before the bank does. Even that would probably only matter in states where HOAs have super liens.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
I can only speak about California as I use state web sites for research. When I started at Countrywide, I setup loans through their system to be serviced at a later date. Loan packages always had insurance information, either individual owner polices, HOA master policies or a combination of both. If the home was detached, we would impound for insurance, if attached, we would require the Master and then not impound for the HO-6 policy. Insurance requirements would be fire, flood and windstorm (if necessary and in designated areas).Insurances were paid paid on an annual basis and we had policy or account numbers. Taxes would be paid twice or four times a years. They could be property, school, local taxes. If I recall, Maryland was the worst and Louisiana was the cheapest.

Here are some of the many issues with setting up HOA dues to be impounded.

1) Many times the HOA is not disclosed when sent to escrow. Speaking only for my self, when I sold my house two years ago, we weren't asked about who the agent was and where payments were sent.

2) On the Secretary of State site, when looking up a HOA, it says who the agent is, but not who the agent works for. It could be a management company, attorney, board member or some uninterested third party.

3)Don't know if assessments are monthly, quarterly or annual.

4) What if their are variable rates based on square footage?

5) How do you update lenders when their is a increase or decrease?

6) Update lenders on address changes, if any.

7) Do you charge lenders late fees for payments not received on time?

That is just a few of many.

Could there be a better ways to handle assessments, I am sure there is, but it would take a lot of work to accomplish those goals.

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