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Started by ConchoP • 20 replies • 1311 views

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ConchoP (Texas)
Posts: 208
Posted:
Our deed restrictions state that homeowners will pay $75 at closing for HOA dues,then each year annual assessments would be paid.

The developer has been in control, but has never sent our invoices for yearly assessments to homeowners.

I'm learning that a few new homeowners paid their $75 at closing and where charged for past annual assessments since the the home was built and was never lived in, because they were the first homeowners. For example the home was finished in 2014, but first time sold in 2017...the homeowner paid $225 in HOA fees.

Our deed restrictions exempt the developer from paying HOA fees while the home is still his. Can the developer charge new homeowners past assessments fees?
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Yes, he CAN.

Your actual question is: SHOULD he?

What does the attorney say?

Not us opinionated strangers, but the attorney who has actually read YOUR Covenants a/k/a contract.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PitA on 07/09/2017 10:54 AM
Yes, he CAN.
.

I would like to know what statute makes that statement??? I do not know of any State where a New Homeowner can be charged for Past Owner's assessments. Generally the past owner, if they have past due assessments, those are paid in closing costs by the past owner in order to sell their home.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 07/19/2017 12:58 AM
Posted By PitA on 07/09/2017 10:54 AM
Yes, he CAN.
.


I would like to know what statute makes that statement??? I do not know of any State where a New Homeowner can be charged for Past Owner's assessments.

FLORIDA

Read FL 720.3085 which says in part:

(2)(b)A parcel owner is jointly and severally liable with the previous parcel owner for all unpaid assessments that came due up to the time of transfer of title. This liability is without prejudice to any right the present parcel owner may have to recover any amounts paid by the present owner from the previous owner. For the purposes of this paragraph, the term “previous owner” shall not include an association that acquires title to a delinquent property through foreclosure or by deed in lieu of foreclosure. The present parcel owner’s liability for unpaid assessments is limited to any unpaid assessments that accrued before the association acquired title to the delinquent property through foreclosure or by deed in lieu of foreclosure.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/19/2017 1:51 AM
Posted By JanetB2 on 07/19/2017 12:58 AM
Posted By PitA on 07/09/2017 10:54 AM
Yes, he CAN.
.


I would like to know what statute makes that statement??? I do not know of any State where a New Homeowner can be charged for Past Owner's assessments.


FLORIDA

Read FL 720.3085 which says in part:

(2)(b)A parcel owner is jointly and severally liable with the previous parcel owner for all unpaid assessments that came due up to the time of transfer of title. This liability is without prejudice to any right the present parcel owner may have to recover any amounts paid by the present owner from the previous owner. For the purposes of this paragraph, the term “previous owner” shall not include an association that acquires title to a delinquent property through foreclosure or by deed in lieu of foreclosure. The present parcel owner's liability for unpaid assessments is limited to any unpaid assessments that accrued before the association acquired title to the delinquent property through foreclosure or by deed in lieu of foreclosure.

This is from Florida Law NOT Texas Law. The section quoted is actually with regards to foreclosure. You need to look at (2)(a) as stated before the above noted (2)(b) to be more accurate:

(2)(a) A parcel owner, regardless of how his or her title to property has been acquired, including by purchase at a foreclosure sale or by deed in lieu of foreclosure, is liable for all assessments that come due while he or she is the parcel owner. The parcel owner’s liability for assessments may not be avoided by waiver or suspension of the use or enjoyment of any common area or by abandonment of the parcel upon which the assessments are made.

(b) A parcel owner is jointly and severally liable with the previous parcel owner for all unpaid assessments that came due up to the time of transfer of title. This liability is without prejudice to any right the present parcel owner may have to recover any amounts paid by the present owner from the previous owner. For the purposes of this paragraph, the term “previous owner” shall not include an association that acquires title to a delinquent property through foreclosure or by deed in lieu of foreclosure. The present parcel owner’s liability for unpaid assessments is limited to any unpaid assessments that accrued before the association acquired title to the delinquent property through foreclosure or by deed in lieu of foreclosure.

As noted above in bold ... only liable while he or she is the "parcel owner".
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Janet,

Your statement was: "I do not know of any State where a New Homeowner can be charged for Past Owner's assessments."

You did not qualify your statement with how the new owner acquired the property. Your statement specified that you were unaware of any State (not just TX) that this occurs. Therefore, I simply provided you with info so you now know of a State where this does occur.

However, since you appear to be dismissing what I provided because it dealt with aquiring the property via foreclosure, I will provide the following, applicable to condominiums:

FL 718.116 (which says in part):

(1)(a) A unit owner, regardless of how his or her title has been acquired, including by purchase at a foreclosure sale or by deed in lieu of foreclosure, is liable for all assessments which come due while he or she is the unit owner. Additionally, a unit owner is jointly and severally liable with the previous owner for all unpaid assessments that came due up to the time of transfer of title. This liability is without prejudice to any right the owner may have to recover from the previous owner the amounts paid by the owner.

So, now you are aware of a State that charges a new homeowner for the previous owners debt to the Association.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
TimB4,

Good answer, but besides my point

The OP evidently does not have basic vocabulary skills.

Can - capable of being done eg, robbing a bank

May - allowed to be done eg, charging assessments

Should - MUST be done as per contract or law

all have DIFFERENT MEANINGS

the OP sounds just like a typical director - CLUELESS
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
ps. 'generally' the previous owner's unpaid assessments would AUTOMATICALLY be a lien against the property whether recorded or not

OP; one does NOT file a lien, one merely RECORDS an existing lien

actually READ and UNDERSTAND your covenants

feel free to PROVE me wrong by posting the applicable section of YOUR covenant
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
For the OP, to repeat my perfectly sound reply:

Quote:
Posted By PitA on 07/09/2017 10:54 AM
Yes, he CAN.

Your actual question is: SHOULD he?

What does the attorney say?

Not us opinionated strangers, but the attorney who has actually read YOUR Covenants a/k/a contract.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/19/2017 6:56 AM
Janet,

Your statement was: "I do not know of any State where a New Homeowner can be charged for Past Owner's assessments."

You did not qualify your statement with how the new owner acquired the property. Your statement specified that you were unaware of any State (not just TX) that this occurs. Therefore, I simply provided you with info so you now know of a State where this does occur.

However, since you appear to be dismissing what I provided because it dealt with aquiring the property via foreclosure, I will provide the following, applicable to condominiums:

FL 718.116 (which says in part):

(1)(a) A unit owner, regardless of how his or her title has been acquired, including by purchase at a foreclosure sale or by deed in lieu of foreclosure, is liable for all assessments which come due while he or she is the unit owner. Additionally, a unit owner is jointly and severally liable with the previous owner for all unpaid assessments that came due up to the time of transfer of title. This liability is without prejudice to any right the owner may have to recover from the previous owner the amounts paid by the owner.

So, now you are aware of a State that charges a new homeowner for the previous owners debt to the Association.

Hmmm ... so while "he or she is the unit owner" OR "came due up to the time o transfer of title".

Are you seriously stating that if I purchase a property that before the Title was transferred to me that I "personally" would be responsible for any PAST Homeowner transgressions??? Really ....???

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Also ... Keeping in mind this issue is off topic from the OP's question. I am surprised Tim that you have gone so off the original OP topic to the point of different State Statutes.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 07/19/2017 11:10 PM

Are you seriously stating that if I purchase a property that before the Title was transferred to me that I "personally" would be responsible for any PAST Homeowner transgressions??? Really ....???

In Florida, yes.

There are many articles on it.
If interested, perform an internet search.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 07/19/2017 11:16 PM

Also ... Keeping in mind this issue is off topic from the OP's question.

John, aka Pita, answered the question.

Can he? yes he can as it appears that is what is happening.

Is it legal? Unknown, what do the governing documents say?

Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 07/19/2017 11:16 PM

I am surprised Tim that you have gone so off the original OP topic to the point of different State Statutes.

You made a very broad general statement saying you were unaware of any State . . .
I simply took the time and effort to educate that in FL, a new homeowner is responsible for the past owners assessments.

I think it's wrong.
However, that was the FL legislatures answer to the question.
It's also one reason why I think legislation of HOAs/COAs needs to be minimal.

NigelB (Texas)
Posts: 254
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ConchoP on 07/09/2017 10:06 AM
Our deed restrictions state that homeowners will pay $75 at closing for HOA dues,then each year annual assessments would be paid.

The developer has been in control, but has never sent our invoices for yearly assessments to homeowners.

I'm learning that a few new homeowners paid their $75 at closing and where charged for past annual assessments since the the home was built and was never lived in, because they were the first homeowners. For example the home was finished in 2014, but first time sold in 2017...the homeowner paid $225 in HOA fees.

Our deed restrictions exempt the developer from paying HOA fees while the home is still his. Can the developer charge new homeowners past assessments fees?

This is the section of Texas Law relating to resale certificates. Any lien or amount owed on a property to an Association automatically terminates on sale of the property when the resale certificate is issued (Texas Property code section 207.005)
"A buyer, buyer's agent, owner, owner's agent, lender, and title insurance company and its agent are not liable for any debt or claim existing on the preparation date of the resale certificate that is not disclosed in the resale certificate."
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
"A buyer, buyer's agent, owner, owner's agent, lender, and title insurance company and its agent are not liable for any debt or claim existing on the preparation date of the resale certificate that is not disclosed in the resale certificate."

Therein lies the rub.

In Texas the owed monies would most likely HAVE been disclosed.

However, few to no buyer(s) actually reads the reams of paper signed at the closing.

D'OH
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 07/19/2017 11:38 PM
Posted By JanetB2 on 07/19/2017 11:16 PM

Also ... Keeping in mind this issue is off topic from the OP's question.


John, aka Pita, answered the question.

Can he? yes he can as it appears that is what is happening.

Is it legal? Unknown, what do the governing documents say?

Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 07/19/2017 11:16 PM

I am surprised Tim that you have gone so off the original OP topic to the point of different State Statutes.


You made a very broad general statement saying you were unaware of any State . . .
I simply took the time and effort to educate that in FL, a new homeowner is responsible for the past owners assessments.

I think it's wrong.
However, that was the FL legislatures answer to the question.
It's also one reason why I think legislation of HOAs/COAs needs to be minimal.


This I agree with.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 07/19/2017 2:59 AM

Read FL 720.3085 which says in part:

(2)(b)A parcel owner is jointly and severally liable with the previous parcel owner for all unpaid assessments that came due up to the time of transfer of title. This liability is without prejudice to any right the present parcel owner may have to recover any amounts paid by the present owner from the previous owner. For the purposes of this paragraph, the term “previous owner” shall not include an association that acquires title to a delinquent property through foreclosure or by deed in lieu of foreclosure. The present parcel owner's liability for unpaid assessments is limited to any unpaid assessments that accrued before the association acquired title to the delinquent property through foreclosure or by deed in lieu of foreclosure.


This is from Florida Law NOT Texas Law. The section quoted is actually with regards to foreclosure. You need to look at (2)(a) as stated before the above noted (2)(b) to be more accurate:

(2)(a) A parcel owner, regardless of how his or her title to property has been acquired, including by purchase at a foreclosure sale or by deed in lieu of foreclosure, is liable for all assessments that come due while he or she is the parcel owner. The parcel owner’s liability for assessments may not be avoided by waiver or suspension of the use or enjoyment of any common area or by abandonment of the parcel upon which the assessments are made.

(b) A parcel owner is jointly and severally liable with the previous parcel owner for all unpaid assessments that came due up to the time of transfer of title. This liability is without prejudice to any right the present parcel owner may have to recover any amounts paid by the present owner from the previous owner. For the purposes of this paragraph, the term “previous owner” shall not include an association that acquires title to a delinquent property through foreclosure or by deed in lieu of foreclosure. The present parcel owner’s liability for unpaid assessments is limited to any unpaid assessments that accrued before the association acquired title to the delinquent property through foreclosure or by deed in lieu of foreclosure.

As noted above in bold ... only liable while he or she is the "parcel owner".

How did you come up with that from what is posted?

2(a) clearly states that any assessment that come due are his?
(b) clearly states that unpaid assessments prior to the association would be the responsibility of the new owner.

However, the new owner is not liable for these charges because their was no previous owner. The house was built and was possession of the association (builder) until the new owner bought it.

Had the house been previously owned privately, say for three years and dues not paid, then the association foreclosed on and held deed for five additional years, the new owner purchasing the property would be only be liable for the three years of past dues.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 07/21/2017 1:53 PM
Posted By JanetB2 on 07/19/2017 2:59 AM

Read FL 720.3085 which says in part:

(2)(b)A parcel owner is jointly and severally liable with the previous parcel owner for all unpaid assessments that came due up to the time of transfer of title. This liability is without prejudice to any right the present parcel owner may have to recover any amounts paid by the present owner from the previous owner. For the purposes of this paragraph, the term “previous owner” shall not include an association that acquires title to a delinquent property through foreclosure or by deed in lieu of foreclosure. The present parcel owner's liability for unpaid assessments is limited to any unpaid assessments that accrued before the association acquired title to the delinquent property through foreclosure or by deed in lieu of foreclosure.


This is from Florida Law NOT Texas Law. The section quoted is actually with regards to foreclosure. You need to look at (2)(a) as stated before the above noted (2)(b) to be more accurate:

(2)(a) A parcel owner, regardless of how his or her title to property has been acquired, including by purchase at a foreclosure sale or by deed in lieu of foreclosure, is liable for all assessments that come due while he or she is the parcel owner. The parcel owner’s liability for assessments may not be avoided by waiver or suspension of the use or enjoyment of any common area or by abandonment of the parcel upon which the assessments are made.

(b) A parcel owner is jointly and severally liable with the previous parcel owner for all unpaid assessments that came due up to the time of transfer of title. This liability is without prejudice to any right the present parcel owner may have to recover any amounts paid by the present owner from the previous owner. For the purposes of this paragraph, the term “previous owner” shall not include an association that acquires title to a delinquent property through foreclosure or by deed in lieu of foreclosure. The present parcel owner’s liability for unpaid assessments is limited to any unpaid assessments that accrued before the association acquired title to the delinquent property through foreclosure or by deed in lieu of foreclosure.

As noted above in bold ... only liable while he or she is the "parcel owner".


How did you come up with that from what is posted?

2(a) clearly states that any assessment that come due are his?
(b) clearly states that unpaid assessments prior to the association would be the responsibility of the new owner.

However, the new owner is not liable for these charges because their was no previous owner. The house was built and was possession of the association (builder) until the new owner bought it.

Had the house been previously owned privately, say for three years and dues not paid, then the association foreclosed on and held deed for five additional years, the new owner purchasing the property would be only be liable for the three years of past dues.


The language you are missing is "parcel owner"? Even if you own a Lot in an HOA with no house built you are still a member of the HOA because in Single Family HOA's the parcel or in essence the land is considered the "unit or member".

2(a) does not state "new owner" ... it states the "parcel owner". Until the developer sells each parcel the developer owns each parcel he made when he subdivided. A new house developer built is NOT in the possession of the Association ... it is in the possession of the Developer until he sells it to someone else. A developer is not an HOA Association. A developer is a parcel owner within an HOA Association which the developer established and with rules the developer put in place for both the developer and new owners to follow. And in some cases a developer might give themselves excessive rights. However, violating any State Laws would not be one of them allowed
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
I think that's what I said. We've muddy this water enough. I'm out.

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