Minutes as Hearsay?

Started by JudithC • 8 replies • 1837 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

JudithC (Virginia)
Posts: 253

Posted:

On the thread about posting delinquencies on websites, Dane referenced a law case in Maryland. I went there, and when poking around on the site found a brief where the attorney is claiming that minutes are hearsay and cannot be used to prove a point they were trying to make. http://www.worshamlaw.com/debtcollection_briefs.htm
The thing that leaped out at me when reading it was that he quoted a portion of the law on hearsay evidence and it says that if the meeting had been recorded by electronic means it would not be considered hearsay. This goes back to the thread on keeping tapes of minutes.

Interesting -- I had only heard the negative side of keeping tapes from attorneys and not this particular slant on it. So, now, keeping tapes is of value in letting the sunshine in perhaps and also actually helps you in a court case if you want to prove a particular thing happened at a meeting (minutes alone not sufficing).

(It is unclear to me whether this brief held water but I suppose he would not post a brief that the judge said "How ridiculous!")

DavidR5
Posts: 99

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JudithC on 07/22/2007 1:33 PM
On the thread about posting delinquencies on websites, Dane referenced a law case in Maryland. I went there, and when poking around on the site found a brief where the attorney is claiming that minutes are hearsay and cannot be used to prove a point they were trying to make. http://www.worshamlaw.com/debtcollection_briefs.htm
The thing that leaped out at me when reading it was that he quoted a portion of the law on hearsay evidence and it says that if the meeting had been recorded by electronic means it would not be considered hearsay. This goes back to the thread on keeping tapes of minutes.

Interesting -- I had only heard the negative side of keeping tapes from attorneys and not this particular slant on it. So, now, keeping tapes is of value in letting the sunshine in perhaps and also actually helps you in a court case if you want to prove a particular thing happened at a meeting (minutes alone not sufficing).

(It is unclear to me whether this brief held water but I suppose he would not post a brief that the judge said "How ridiculous!")

That depends on your perspective. It can also be used against you if someone says something wrong, so you have to walk on eggshells. But then again, "taping" is so 1990. Why not video record it and make it available on the web for all of the people who couldn't attend? Cameras are cheap.

JudithC (Virginia)
Posts: 253

Posted:

"But then again, "taping" is so 1990. Why not video record it and make it available on the web for all of the people who couldn't attend? Cameras are cheap."

Interestingly, Virginia has considered the issue of videotaping and doesn't say the association must allow it, and they do say it must allow taping (which is done electronically nowadays and can be put up on the site also). Maybe there are too many people who don't like how they look, but are relatively pleased with their voices! (Have you ever tried to take pictures at an association function?)

DavidR5
Posts: 99

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JudithC on 07/22/2007 2:01 PM
"But then again, "taping" is so 1990. Why not video record it and make it available on the web for all of the people who couldn't attend? Cameras are cheap."

Interestingly, Virginia has considered the issue of videotaping and doesn't say the association must allow it, and they do say it must allow taping (which is done electronically nowadays and can be put up on the site also). Maybe there are too many people who don't like how they look, but are relatively pleased with their voices! (Have you ever tried to take pictures at an association function?)

I think its more because Virginia is just a bit behind the times. Taping is allowed in Florida, as long as the equipment isn't disruptive. But I'm not talking about "allowing" it, I'm talking about having the association do it to create a record of the meeting. Not just for legal purposes, but so that people who can't attend can view it. Down here in Florida a lot of people only live here full time, and its a good way to keep everyone in the loop.

DavidR5
Posts: 99

Posted:

I meant video taping is allowed, of course.

LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526

Posted:

We have been videotaping our meetings here in Florida for over a year.Interestingly enough one of our BOD was against it ,but he was overuled as the Statutes and our By Laws allow it....Then of course he really needed to know something about a motion he had made at the meeting and (he) as the Sect. also recorded the minutes incorrectly.So he called and asked me what INDEED had he said when he made his motion and w/o that video it would have been a whole different outcome.It seems that since our BOD has become aware that the meetings ARE being recorded their demeanor has changed for the better. It's interesting to see that when they ask to "review" it - the matter they asked to "review" is re reviewed at the next meeting.....LOL sometimes...............LINDAC

JudithC (Virginia)
Posts: 253

Posted:

Great Linda, and that is really a good reason why minutes should be considered to be hearsay. It sounds like your board is finding that taping them is extremely useful.

David, the great state of Virginia behind the times? Forsooth!

Actually, I am in favor of taping (either audio or video) and putting it on the website. Video can be an advantage as audio you have to train people to identify themselves so discussion isn't hard to follow. However, I am serious about the number of people who don't want pictures taken of themselves (I must admit women more than men).

JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882

Posted:

It would be interesting to see how that case turned out as the comment from the lawyer could be just that - a comment to push his or her clients case.

I had always been told that the minutes were the official record of the association - once they were signed by the Secretary. (unsigned minutes are perhaps not official?). This is backed up somewhat by what has happened over the past few years with corporate secretaries being cited by the SEC, and sued by stockholders for altering the minutes to back-date stock options for company officers.

Joe

Joseph West
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
Community Associations Network, LLC
www.CommunityAssociations.net
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505

Posted:

I am not a lawyer, so what I am presenting is just some facts I found on the wikiedia. If you go down a near the bottom there is a section labeled "Hearsay exceptions that apply even where the declarant is available". In that section is what I would think relates to minutes.

"the business records exception: business records created during the ordinary course of business are considered reliable and can usually be brought in under this exception if the proper foundation is laid when the records are introduced into evidence. Depending on which jurisdiction the case is in, either the records custodian or someone with knowledge of the records must lay a foundation for the records, however. "

To me, this would indicate that minutes are not subject to hearsay rules. Also, note, that civil trials (which most HOA issues would be) have different rules from criminal trials.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here