Hardwood Floors and NO padding.

Started by MichelleC8 • 23 replies • 2194 views

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MichelleC8 (California)
Posts: 80

Posted:

A handful of years ago the unit directly below me was purchased. The new owner replaced everything inside. Including the flooring which has been upgraded to hard wood ( Was something else prior)

None the less living above the unit has proven interesting. Since the new flooring was installed I hear them walking around, sometimes loudly enough in certain corners of my home it startle and has caused hours of lost sleep. I mentioned this to the board, the owner and it fell on deaf ears. I was told since nobody else especially below was complaining they can't do anything about it.

6 months ago a new tenant moved in below the loud unit. From day one they have been complaining about the noise which I witnessed is unlivable at times. they also complain to the HOA, and the landlord of the problem unit.

Back and forth and a hearing later... no resolution. the unit owner with the floor issue admitted there is no padding to the new floor she installed a few years back. She said "out of courtesy" they are thinking of replacing the floor padding etc.

This is against our CCRs, and also against building codes per city. I brought this to the atten of the board and the president emailed me back saying they have done all they can. The response was the owner said she will replace the floor. My response is how long do you give her? the board didn't respond but on a side line one of the board members told me they don't want to get involved.

I am seeking legal advice with an HOA just because of my own lack of knowledge of this issue, but the board is responsible to uphold our CRRS are they not? There are two things going on here. #1 the floor issue and the owner of the problem unit not making right on her end. #2 the boards response.

Basic advice appreciated.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Many Boards take the same position as yours when it is an issue just between two units.

Your CCRs will have language that allows you to take action if you are the offended party.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Our HOA is multiple stories too, Michelle, and we have strict ARC Guidelines for hard surface flooring, as permitted by our CC&Rs.

Does your HOA have any? If so, it is up to the board to enforce them. You and others keep nagging the Board including at open meetings. But what does "padding" mean?

We (the Board) had a recent complaint form a lower unit that starting a few months ago, the neighbor above began making all kinds of noises on the floor. Both parties have lived there a few years and the one with the new noise had, indeed, installed a new hardwood floor a couple of years ago. It was completely approved to our requirements by our ARC; we reviewed the file.

We feel badly for the one who hears the noise but since the folks above complied with our CC&Rs, it's out of our hands. We can't explain why noise would begin a few months ago and not when the floor was installed. All I could come up with is that the upper unit used to have area rugs and removed them. But???

We urged the troubled owner to o everything she can to work with her neighbor. Bribery, perhaps. Champagne. Homemade cookies.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Michellec8, when it comes to getting a neighbor to correct the apparent legal nuisance that the neighbor's floor is, case law has generally been on your side. As for getting the Board to take action, I think your better bet is to address the neighbor directly with a letter of demand. Cc the board. Give the neighbor a month to replace the floor, and if the neighbor does not, be prepared to go to court.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,063

Posted:

I would talk to the other complainant and the two of you have an attorney send a letter to the owner, copy the Board.

If it is a code violation, I would also (as a combined front) simultaneously contact the City/county for code enforcement (hopefully you have written documentation from the owner admitting that there is no padding).

Keep in mind that you also have a right to enforce the covenants.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichelleC8 on 06/19/2017 6:36 PM
and also against building codes per city

That I don't believe. In fact, I don't believe there is a hardwood floor made with padding in mind. Most laminated flooring have a thin pad which is meant to allow the floor to float, but is not meant to deaden sound. The same underlayment could be used on an engineered wood floor that was glued on the the T&G and floats free. But not a hardwood floor and it certainly is not a code issue.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I agree. It is not a code issue. It's an HOA issue UNLESS there simply are no CC&R or ARC written guidelines.

I also assume Michelle is talking about a required underlayment that "floats."

MichaelB44 (California)
Posts: 33

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 06/19/2017 9:54 PM
I agree. It is not a code issue. It's an HOA issue UNLESS there simply are no CC&R or ARC written guidelines.

I also assume Michelle is talking about a required underlayment that "floats."

I'm also assuming that's what she is referring to as well as the "hardwood" flooring being laminate. If she's in a three+ story building the floors would be concrete and the flooring would be a floating floor either T&G glued or locked.

I don't know someone would lay a floating floor down without proper padding. It's going to be uncomfortable, loud (think how loud it is inside the condo based on how loud it is through a floor), and won't have a moisture barrier. All the floating flooring I've seen would require a padding in order for the warranty to be valid so it's an odd way to try and save some dollars. It probably sucks to be living in that condo so strangely enough your greatest ally might turn out to be the tenant in all this.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelB44 on 06/19/2017 10:32 PM

I'm also assuming that's what she is referring to as well as the "hardwood" flooring being laminate. If she's in a three+ story building the floors would be concrete and the flooring would be a floating floor either T&G glued or locked.

Not neccesarily. The floors are likely a thinly poured slab of gyp-crete, not concrete. And there is no reason that real hardwood floors cannot be glued to either gypcrete or concrete

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

The original flooring in our 200+ unit high rises is partially hardwood and partially carpeting. At 16 y.o., many owners have replaced their floors with complete hardwood or other hard surfaces. My spouse & I changed out our travertine bathrooms’ floors for porcelain tile. I know little about this topic myself as we’ve had good ARCs here.

While very lengthy, our below requirements might be useful to others, or a least give a way to think about this topic:

The Architectural Change Request Packet Hardwood Flooring Installation Information
TYPES OF HARDWOOD FLOORING (Hardwood flooring includes but is not limited to):
1. LAMINATED PLANK FLOORING (sometimes referred to as "engineered"):
• Laminated Plank flooring (sometimes referred to as "engineered") is made in different layers or "plys" to help control expansion. The top layer of the plank is the hardwood. This ranges in thickness from about 3/32” to about 1/4". The thicker the wear layer the more times the product can be refinished.
• The "KahrsTM" Laminated Plank Flooring product is the original flooring product used in all XXXX buildings. The Kahrs product was chosen because of its stability. It has a 3-sand wear layer.
• Below the hardwood layer there are usually two to four additional layers that are laminated together. The grain of the wood on each layer is turned in opposite directions. Expansion is controlled using this design technique (similar to the way that plywood is manufactured so that it remains stable and square).
2. "PERGO" STYLE FLOORING (sometimes referred to as "laminate"):
• "Pergo" style flooring is made from a compressed fiberboard with a photograph of wood laminated on top. There are usually 6 boards per package. Each has a different photo on them. If you look carefully at these floors, every sixth board usually has the same picture.
• Because of the finish that is put on these products, they are very durable and do not scratch under heavy use. However, when water is dropped on the seams of the planks and allowed to sit, there is a possibility that puckering can occur with compressed fiber board. Puckering may not resolve spontaneously.
The Architectural Change Request Packet Hardwood Flooring Installation Information
ACOUSTICAL REQUIREMENTS:
All hardwood floors installations at XXXXX must meet a DC (Impact Insulation Class or IIC) rating of 59 or higher in order to diminish noise transference to surrounding units. Two factors which (in combination with other structural and environmental factors) determine a hardwood floor DC rating are:
1) the kind of hardwood flooring material installed, and
2) the kind of underlayment used.
Examples of materials commonly found in xxxxx hardwood floor installations are the following:
• KahrsTM laminated plank flooring (sometimes referred to as "engineered")
• TuplexTM Underlaymentent (a combo foam product consisting of one layer of polystyrene beads layered between two sheets of polyethylene film)
• Quick StepTM laminated plank flooring (sometimes referred to as "laminate") TuplexTM Underlayment
• Cork may also be used if it is a minimum of 3/4 INCH. The same IIC rating of 59 is expected to be
obtained.
Not all hardwood flooring and underlayment combinations will meet the DC 59 standard.
If a contractor specifies the use of something other than the products mentioned above, a product spec sheet from the manufacturer must be supplied with the architectural application showing an IIC rating of 59 or higher.
If a combo foam product or cork will not to be used as an underlayment, it is the homeowner's responsibility to pay a fee for an outside consultant to determine if the installation meets or exceeds the noise requirement of an IIC rating of 59 or higher. The consultant will be selected solely by the Architectural Committee. Please be advised that this may impact the time period a homeowner estimates to complete the installation.
EXPANSION GAP REQUIREMENTS:
All perimeter areas of the installation (where the floor meets the wall) must allow for an expansion gap of 1/4" to 3/8", width wise, to limit the noise transference and buckling that causes noise transference.
OTHER MATERIALS:
A leveling agent will be applied to the concrete surface after jackhammering or grinding is completed to physically level the concrete surface of the floor. ThoroTM is routinely used at xxxxx ArdexTM is another popular brand of leveling agent that is used.
Leveling material must be left to dry overnight or until completely dry, or moisture may be trapped resulting in the formation of mold. If deep dips are being filled, these will usually not dry over night without the use of a fan. Subsequent adherent materials will not adhere properly.
Inspection by the Architectural Committee or its representative may be required at different stages of completion.XXXX ARCHITECTURAL COMMITTEE The Architectural Change Request Packet
Hard Surface Flooring Installation Requirements TYPES OF HARD SURFACE FLOORING: Hard surface flooring includes but is not limited to:
STONE TRAVERTINE QUARRY CERAMIC MARBLE CEMENT SLATE MOSAIC GLASS GRANITE
• xxxx will allow all types of hard surface flooring to be used in a new installation. A new installation is defined as putting a hard surface floor over the cement slab construction.
• If a hard surface floor already exists and the homeowner wishes to add another hard surface above it, careful inspection by the Architectural Committee is required to ensure that proper installation procedures will be followed.
• A consultant may be called in at the homeowner's expense to ensure the installation will meet the guidelines regarding noise transference.
• A hard surface floor will not be permitted over an existing hardwood floor. The hardwood floor (of any kind including laminate and composition) must be removed before the hard surface floor is installed.
ACOUSTICAL REQUIREMENTS:
• An underlayment of cork is to be used in all hard surface installations. This cork material may be in sheet or roll form. It MUST be at least 1/2 INCH in thickness in keeping with guidelines established by the TILE COUNCIL OF AMERICA. This will ensure that an IIC rating of at least 59 will be obtained to greatly diminish noise transference to surrounding units.
• The cork underlayment must be glued down with an organic adhesive to a bare concrete floor that is clean of any dirt, debris, oil or any surface contaminant, which might hinder adhesion.
• If the concrete surface is uneven, it may be made smooth by grinding, jackhammering, or applying filler which is compatible with the adhesive material used.
• All perimeter areas of the installation (where the floor meets the wall) must have either a resilient (or acoustical) caulk applied, or a perimeter isolation barrier installed to limit noise transference. The hard surface material MAY NOT abut any moldings, drywall or steel framing members within the wall. A 1/4 INCH gap filled with either the acoustic al caulk or perimeter isolation barrier MUST exist between the hard surface material and any perimeter structures.
These guidelines must be strictly followed to prevent noise transference both laterally and vertically. If drywall is touching the floor, it is recommended that it be undercut.
If cork is not to be used as underlayment, it is the homeowner's responsibility to pay a fee for an outside consultant to determine if the installation meets or exceeds the noise requirement of an IIC rating of at least 59. The consultant will be selected solely by the Architectural Committee. Please be advised that this may impact the time period a homeowner estimates to complete the installation.
BONDING OF THE HARD SURFACE MATERIAL:
• A latex Portland cement mortar bond coat (e.g. thin-set mortar) is to be applied to the upper surface of the cork underlayment.
• A proper-sized trowel for the product must be used to insure a good bond between the mortar and the hard surface material.
• The hard surface material is to be applied to the bond coat with at least a 24 hour drying time before any grout is applied.
• All gaps must have a grout type consistent with flooring applied to create a unified structure.
• The grout MUST NOT abut any perimeter surfaces except for cabinetry.

MichaelB44 (California)
Posts: 33

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM31 on 06/20/2017 6:52 AM

Not neccesarily. The floors are likely a thinly poured slab of gyp-crete, not concrete. And there is no reason that real hardwood floors cannot be glued to either gypcrete or concrete

My post wasn't a commentary on whether hardwood can or can't be glued down to concrete. I was pointing out that people tend to refer to laminate flooring as "hardwood" or "wood" flooring in the same way I referred to "concrete" in a general sense. People interchange cement and *cretes all the time and most of the time it's not an issue in the conversation because it's understood was is being said--the floor does not have wood sub-flooring is the point I guess I could have made more clearly and the reason I brought it up at all is because without padding the floor is going to be brutal. The upstairs neighbor wouldn't actually know without seeing or being told what kind of "wood" the owner used for the flooring, but given the fact we know it's an owner who remodeled it to rent it out and the fact that solid hardwood, engineered wood, and bamboo can be 4x+ the cost of laminate flooring, it's highly likely in my opinion and experience that the owner went for some cheap laminate flooring and decided to forgo a pad. I sold and installed flooring for a mom and pop shop decades ago while I was an undergrad and people would always question the point of a pad.

As far as I'm aware, padding isn't just important it's required. Padding addresses imperfections in the floor, creates a moisture barrier, and ensure adequate acoustical performance (I'm confused why you said pads aren't used to deaden sound, that's one of their main features). In any case, the landlord said she's going to replace it and my best guess is she realized her mistake in trying to cheap out on the flooring and the tenant is telling her it's unbearable. I can't really think of any other reason a landlord would remodel her remodel. Anyway, that's why I suggested contacting the tenant because that is likely to be the most effective leverage point.

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 06/20/2017 9:10 AM

ACOUSTICAL REQUIREMENTS:
• An underlayment of cork is to be used in all hard surface installations. This cork material may be in sheet or roll form. It MUST be at least 1/2 INCH in thickness in keeping with guidelines established by the TILE COUNCIL OF AMERICA. This will ensure that an IIC rating of at least 59 will be obtained to greatly diminish noise transference to surrounding units.

^^this^^

If you know for sure there was no underlayment of any kind used, and think you can show that the installation directions say that underlayment must be used, type up a letter stating this and give it to your Board and the offending party. You may not need the support of the person below the noisy floor, but it would be very helpful to have it. If the letter achieves nothing, get an attorney involved.

However, if the floor has the this pad that is required for it to float, you're not going to accomplish anything.

MichaelB44 (California)
Posts: 33

Posted:

The section you're quoting is in regards to hard surface installs, such as, tile, slate, marble, etc. For laminate flooring, Kerry's association actually requires 3/4" cork or a suitable pad. But those are Kerry's association's rules and don't have any bearing on Michelle's association (unless they live in the same place

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

That's right, Michael44. I only provided it as it might be useful for others. It also might be useful if Michelle'd like to get some Guidelines at her HOA.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelB44 on 06/20/2017 10:52 AM
I'm confused why you said pads aren't used to deaden sound, that's one of their main features

Padding as a sound deadener is given lip service. But just about its entire purpose is two-fold; vapar barrier and as an easy decollement surface for the structure and the floor to grow, shrink and move at different rates. Nothing more.

If you think 3/32 of an inch of foam will cut much sound, well I don't know what to say.

MichaelB44 (California)
Posts: 33

Posted:

Oh hey Mark, this seems like a fun game...let me try:

If you think 3/4 of an inch of cork will *not* cut much sound, well I don't know what to say.

Now that we've successfully knocked the heads off our respective straw men, should we recognize a variety of underlayment exists or simply agree to disagree?

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494

Posted:

I am not aware of any laminate flooring manufacturers who sell 3/4" cork as an underlayment. That is typically from a outside vendor and their is some question as to whether the use of that material as you descibe affects installation guidelines and warranties.

MichelleC8 (California)
Posts: 80

Posted:

No the floor is HARDWOOD. Not laminate. The owner confirmed it.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

If you are seeking legal advice ... you need to HIRE an attorney. We on this site are not attorneys and only offer our advice based on our past experience in living within any HOA's. You case is a typical example of an HOA approving flooring in an upper unit without considering the consequences. Potentially if tile or wood was allowed by an HOA (which allows additional noise) ... Then if there is an issue in the future who should be liable? If the replacement was approved by the HOA .... Please explain why the homeowner should be harassed or liable for the noise??? We have become a society of "blame games", but the problem is we tend to "blame" the wrong entity.

MichelleC8 (California)
Posts: 80

Posted:

Hi. There. I indeed have consulted and attorney. Per the attourney our first step is ask the owner to fix the issue. ( that was already done) They stated they are looking at noise testing and then fixing per recommendations, including replacing main living areas with carpet or additional padding.

The attorney stated if this isn't tended to or remedied as stated, there is a potential case against the owner and the HOA for failure to enforce governing CCRs. Hiring an attorney is only part of it. The attorney stated 90% of his cases are situations like this where the board has been hands off in regards and failing ot enforce their own documents.

Hoping he owner makes good on their end. They admit they are in the wrong, to do someonthing about it is the next step.
Wish us luck. Thank you for all of your responses.

EmmaE1 (Arizona)
Posts: 22

Posted:

That's a big issue, better to consult an attorney instead of going by your own.

RobertP27 (Florida)
Posts: 11

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 06/20/2017 9:10 AM
The original flooring in our 200+ unit high rises is partially hardwood and partially carpeting. At 16 y.o., many owners have replaced their floors with complete hardwood or other hard surfaces. My spouse & I changed out our travertine bathrooms’ floors for porcelain tile. I know little about this topic myself as we’ve had good ARCs here.

While very lengthy, our below requirements might be useful to others, or a least give a way to think about this topic:

The Architectural Change Request Packet Hardwood Flooring Installation Information
TYPES OF HARDWOOD FLOORING (Hardwood flooring includes but is not limited to):
1. LAMINATED PLANK FLOORING (sometimes referred to as "engineered"):
• Laminated Plank flooring (sometimes referred to as "engineered") is made in different layers or "plys" to help control expansion. The top layer of the plank is the hardwood. This ranges in thickness from about 3/32” to about 1/4". The thicker the wear layer the more times the product can be refinished.
• The "KahrsTM" Laminated Plank Flooring product is the original flooring product used in all XXXX buildings. The Kahrs product was chosen because of its stability. It has a 3-sand wear layer.
• Below the hardwood layer there are usually two to four additional layers that are laminated together. The grain of the wood on each layer is turned in opposite directions. Expansion is controlled using this design technique (similar to the way that plywood is manufactured so that it remains stable and square).
2. "PERGO" STYLE FLOORING (sometimes referred to as "laminate"):
• "Pergo" style flooring is made from a compressed fiberboard with a photograph of wood laminated on top. There are usually 6 boards per package. Each has a different photo on them. If you look carefully at these floors, every sixth board usually has the same picture.
• Because of the finish that is put on these products, they are very durable and do not scratch under heavy use. However, when water is dropped on the seams of the planks and allowed to sit, there is a possibility that puckering can occur with compressed fiber board. Puckering may not resolve spontaneously.
The Architectural Change Request Packet Hardwood Flooring Installation Information
ACOUSTICAL REQUIREMENTS:
All hardwood floors installations at XXXXX must meet a DC (Impact Insulation Class or IIC) rating of 59 or higher in order to diminish noise transference to surrounding units. Two factors which (in combination with other structural and environmental factors) determine a hardwood floor DC rating are:
1) the kind of hardwood flooring material installed, and
2) the kind of underlayment used.
Examples of materials commonly found in xxxxx hardwood floor installations are the following:
• KahrsTM laminated plank flooring (sometimes referred to as "engineered")
• TuplexTM Underlaymentent (a combo foam product consisting of one layer of polystyrene beads layered between two sheets of polyethylene film)
• Quick StepTM laminated plank flooring (sometimes referred to as "laminate") TuplexTM Underlayment
• Cork may also be used if it is a minimum of 3/4 INCH. The same IIC rating of 59 is expected to be
obtained.
Not all hardwood flooring and underlayment combinations will meet the DC 59 standard.
If a contractor specifies the use of something other than the products mentioned above, a product spec sheet from the manufacturer must be supplied with the architectural application showing an IIC rating of 59 or higher.
If a combo foam product or cork will not to be used as an underlayment, it is the homeowner's responsibility to pay a fee for an outside consultant to determine if the installation meets or exceeds the noise requirement of an IIC rating of 59 or higher. The consultant will be selected solely by the Architectural Committee. Please be advised that this may impact the time period a homeowner estimates to complete the installation.
EXPANSION GAP REQUIREMENTS:
All perimeter areas of the installation (where the floor meets the wall) must allow for an expansion gap of 1/4" to 3/8", width wise, to limit the noise transference and buckling that causes noise transference.
OTHER MATERIALS:
A leveling agent will be applied to the concrete surface after jackhammering or grinding is completed to physically level the concrete surface of the floor. ThoroTM is routinely used at xxxxx ArdexTM is another popular brand of leveling agent that is used.
Leveling material must be left to dry overnight or until completely dry, or moisture may be trapped resulting in the formation of mold. If deep dips are being filled, these will usually not dry over night without the use of a fan. Subsequent adherent materials will not adhere properly.
Inspection by the Architectural Committee or its representative may be required at different stages of completion.XXXX ARCHITECTURAL COMMITTEE The Architectural Change Request Packet
Hard Surface Flooring Installation Requirements TYPES OF HARD SURFACE FLOORING: Hard surface flooring includes but is not limited to:
STONE TRAVERTINE QUARRY CERAMIC MARBLE CEMENT SLATE MOSAIC GLASS GRANITE
• xxxx will allow all types of hard surface flooring to be used in a new installation. A new installation is defined as putting a hard surface floor over the cement slab construction.
• If a hard surface floor already exists and the homeowner wishes to add another hard surface above it, careful inspection by the Architectural Committee is required to ensure that proper installation procedures will be followed.
• A consultant may be called in at the homeowner's expense to ensure the installation will meet the guidelines regarding noise transference.
• A hard surface floor will not be permitted over an existing hardwood floor. The hardwood floor (of any kind including laminate and composition) must be removed before the hard surface floor is installed.
ACOUSTICAL REQUIREMENTS:
• An underlayment of cork is to be used in all hard surface installations. This cork material may be in sheet or roll form. It MUST be at least 1/2 INCH in thickness in keeping with guidelines established by the TILE COUNCIL OF AMERICA. This will ensure that an IIC rating of at least 59 will be obtained to greatly diminish noise transference to surrounding units.
• The cork underlayment must be glued down with an organic adhesive to a bare concrete floor that is clean of any dirt, debris, oil or any surface contaminant, which might hinder adhesion.
• If the concrete surface is uneven, it may be made smooth by grinding, jackhammering, or applying filler which is compatible with the adhesive material used.
• All perimeter areas of the installation (where the floor meets the wall) must have either a resilient (or acoustical) caulk applied, or a perimeter isolation barrier installed to limit noise transference. The hard surface material MAY NOT abut any moldings, drywall or steel framing members within the wall. A 1/4 INCH gap filled with either the acoustic al caulk or perimeter isolation barrier MUST exist between the hard surface material and any perimeter structures.
These guidelines must be strictly followed to prevent noise transference both laterally and vertically. If drywall is touching the floor, it is recommended that it be undercut.
If cork is not to be used as underlayment, it is the homeowner's responsibility to pay a fee for an outside consultant to determine if the installation meets or exceeds the noise requirement of an IIC rating of at least 59. The consultant will be selected solely by the Architectural Committee. Please be advised that this may impact the time period a homeowner estimates to complete the installation.
BONDING OF THE HARD SURFACE MATERIAL:
• A latex Portland cement mortar bond coat (e.g. thin-set mortar) is to be applied to the upper surface of the cork underlayment.
• A proper-sized trowel for the product must be used to insure a good bond between the mortar and the hard surface material.
• The hard surface material is to be applied to the bond coat with at least a 24 hour drying time before any grout is applied.
• All gaps must have a grout type consistent with flooring applied to create a unified structure.
• The grout MUST NOT abut any perimeter surfaces except for cabinetry.

DAAUUM. THOSE ARE SOME COMPREHENSIVE ARC's. Bravo!!!

RobertP27 (Florida)
Posts: 11

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichelleC8 on 06/19/2017 6:36 PM
A handful of years ago the unit directly below me was purchased. The new owner replaced everything inside. Including the flooring which has been upgraded to hard wood ( Was something else prior)

None the less living above the unit has proven interesting. Since the new flooring was installed I hear them walking around, sometimes loudly enough in certain corners of my home it startle and has caused hours of lost sleep. I mentioned this to the board, the owner and it fell on deaf ears. I was told since nobody else especially below was complaining they can't do anything about it.

6 months ago a new tenant moved in below the loud unit. From day one they have been complaining about the noise which I witnessed is unlivable at times. they also complain to the HOA, and the landlord of the problem unit.

Back and forth and a hearing later... no resolution. the unit owner with the floor issue admitted there is no padding to the new floor she installed a few years back. She said "out of courtesy" they are thinking of replacing the floor padding etc.

This is against our CCRs, and also against building codes per city. I brought this to the atten of the board and the president emailed me back saying they have done all they can. The response was the owner said she will replace the floor. My response is how long do you give her? the board didn't respond but on a side line one of the board members told me they don't want to get involved.

I am seeking legal advice with an HOA just because of my own lack of knowledge of this issue, but the board is responsible to uphold our CRRS are they not? There are two things going on here. #1 the floor issue and the owner of the problem unit not making right on her end. #2 the boards response.

Basic advice appreciated.

Related to this...."Since the new flooring was installed I hear them walking around, sometimes loudly enough in certain corners of my home it startle and has caused hours of lost sleep."

You might find your room to be measurements which are both divisible by LCDs. Builders are lazy and 4x8, 12x16, 12,10, 20x10 rooms will often cause "standing waves" to possibly multiply near corners of rooms or other unsuspecting "node" points throughout your home. Noise pollution and its physical effects on people is rarely understood and regulated in any meaningful way from both a city/county ordinance standpoint, or by most Associations.

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