Any HOAs that do not have a property management group?

Started by AustinS1 • 25 replies • 1619 views

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AustinS1 (California)
Posts: 13

Posted:

I was wondering if there is anyone here that is on the board or a home owner in an HOA without a property management group? How do you work through your issues, track, documents for example? I would like to hear your stories, opinions, input, and so forth!

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

We did not have an MC. We just basically had an accounting firm who managed our money. They also just reported any issues to us the board. The board ran the place. We still had a 2 signature requirement on every check written. Had to be signed by 2 officers and the accounting firm. (Special checks required). That way we had a "checks and balances" for every check written. Board also had to approve the expense.

Our HOA if we ever "disbanded" would had to go to an MC to run the place. Something no one wanted. They'd rather keep it amongst ourselves to manage than someone else. However, with enough owner apathy it can get to that point in some HOA's.

California is a bit more regiment in their rules and meetings etc... So MC's may be a different animal. It really depends on how the contract is written between the HOA and the MC. Each one is different. Some HOA's want the MC to pass along punishment while others want them to MYOB. So I would recommend reading the MC contract or if want to create one, ask what you want them to do.

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

we are self managed. 130 lots.
At times we have hired a bookkeeper (but haven't for several years).

Paper, Pen, word processors, excel spreadsheets, a scanner and file folders allow us to maintain Association records.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

In the same boat as Tim except we don't have a scanner yet. We've been relying on the officers' own personal scanners when needed.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

We are using individuals scanners and computers as well. I simply wanted to demonstrate that we digitize historical records (vs. keeping paper copies).

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

We're trying to do the same and thinking about a new $150 scanner that should be enough to scan, oh maybe 100 pages a month or so. We have an old PC in our clubhouse that needs to be replaced. It was donated 10 years ago and runs Windows Vista which cannot be upgraded. We could replace it with an inexpensive desktop for under $200 and if any future secretaries don't have their own scanner/PC then they could use the setup in the clubhouse for a few hours a week if needed. We'd lock that down with full-disk encryption and arrange for some sort of offsite cloud storage backup. We got rid of literally hundreds of pounds of paper since the 1st of the year already. We're still going to maintain a folder-per-home in our file cabinet.

Giving homeowners access to all this digitized information is going to take some work to set up. We scanned everything we needed to keep (7 years for most things) and will be uploading it into some cloud service soon. Cloud storage, however, is NOT backup and we have to figure that out too.

The big problem will be what happens when we get a computer illiterate secretary. Eventually it will happen. We currently have a computer illiterate president, which is no fun at all.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

While this is for my management company, I have a subscription to Microsoft Office 365 Business Premium. It's cost is $150.00, has a full suite of applications and 1TB of cloud storage with OneDrive for Business. It can be installed on up to 5 computers and unlimited tablets and phones. I have every file for my business and all HOA records on OneDrive and any file can be accessed anywhere in the world. Files are backed up everyday at midnight on a $100 portable drive.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Computer, paper, pen and file folders for each property unit. I have been in small HOA's with no apathy ... as long as you have owners who are willing to do the work, then self managed works well and more cost effective.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 06/15/2017 9:14 PM
We're trying to do the same and thinking about a new $150 scanner that should be enough to scan, oh maybe 100 pages a month or so. We have an old PC in our clubhouse that needs to be replaced. It was donated 10 years ago and runs Windows Vista which cannot be upgraded. We could replace it with an inexpensive desktop for under $200 and if any future secretaries don't have their own scanner/PC then they could use the setup in the clubhouse for a few hours a week if needed. We'd lock that down with full-disk encryption and arrange for some sort of offsite cloud storage backup. We got rid of literally hundreds of pounds of paper since the 1st of the year already. We're still going to maintain a folder-per-home in our file cabinet.

Giving homeowners access to all this digitized information is going to take some work to set up. We scanned everything we needed to keep (7 years for most things) and will be uploading it into some cloud service soon. Cloud storage, however, is NOT backup and we have to figure that out too.

The big problem will be what happens when we get a computer illiterate secretary. Eventually it will happen. We currently have a computer illiterate president, which is no fun at all.

We are coming to a time when the dinosaurs will have to go. The Pres., Tres., and Secretary should all be computer literate. As far as backup, the HOA could purchase a couple of really big thumb drives and use that as a fixed long term storage. Their may also be a member with a Mac Air Capsule or similar device who could be your tertiary back up. If done properly, scanned documents don't take up all that much room on a computer. Done wrong, the computer thinks they are a big HD photo of snow.

The one last issue you may run into is scanning 100 pages a month can take a bit of time, especially since most of the cheaper yet non-junk scanners are flat-beds. You may want to upgrade to a feeder model, and make sure the secretary knows how to do their job. As it becomes more and more obvious that the office of the secretary is modernized, it will also become less likely that computer illiterate dinosaurs will petition for the job. Lord help you in an over 55 community though.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 06/15/2017 9:14 PM

Cloud storage, however, is NOT backup and we have to figure that out too.

We use thumb drives, CD/DVDs and our website (as it has copies of minutes, etc. on it).

The suggestion of a portable hard drive is a good idea as well.

Keep in mind that all of these things can fail.
Therefore, a couple of backups would be good.

Example: As treasurer, I utilize thumb drives and burn a CD/DVD once per year (which is given to the Secretary). I also keep paper files for each lot (copy of last past ledgers and any letters sent back and forth) Additionally, the bank (I think most banks) have started making jpgs (pictures) of deposited checks, deposit slips, written checks and bank statements are kept in pdf. Worst case, we could recreate most of the financial records utilizing bank records for 2 or 3 years.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

I believe our HOA (112 homes, $70K budget) could well operate without a MC if several owners were willing to do the work required. That said, none of our owners wants to do the work so we use an MC

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM31 on 06/16/2017 7:52 AM
The one last issue you may run into is scanning 100 pages a month can take a bit of time, especially since most of the cheaper yet non-junk scanners are flat-beds. You may want to upgrade to a feeder model, and make sure the secretary knows how to do their job. As it becomes more and more obvious that the office of the secretary is modernized, it will also become less likely that computer illiterate dinosaurs will petition for the job. Lord help you in an over 55 community though.

I'm with you on all of that, Mark. I've been using my own Epson flatbed scanner which is really slow, but we're looking at an HP L2715A Scanjet which scans pretty fast (23 pages per minute) using a sheet feeder. It will also handle double-sided scanning and a lot of different paper sizes, handy for receipts. I scan most documents black & white at 600 dpi which compresses to really small files. There are things that don't lend themselves to B&W, however, and for that I use 360 dpi 8-bit grayscale. Occasionally a color scan is needed. Just knowing when to use what settings is something many people aren't going to grasp, though. We're not a 55+ community per se, but we de facto are.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 06/16/2017 3:47 PM

You sound like their IT expert. Heck, you sound like like you could be the IT expert for this entire board

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 06/16/2017 8:44 AM

Posted By GenoS on 06/15/2017 9:14 PM

Cloud storage, however, is NOT backup and we have to figure that out too.

My new HOA provided a CD to all owners of HOA documents along with the notice for our annual meeting. I am loving the open honest attitude ...

While I wanted a break after our last HOA lengthy BS legal battle (was so tired after the lengthy court battle, because to help reduce costs I played the part of doing the paralegal work) ... I did end up volunteering to be on the ACC. As I told my hubby ... it is better to be somewhat in the loop than outside the loop.

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503

Posted:

After the last property management company dropped our former HOA, the HOA faced numerous issues for a variety of violation.

I feel that the property management company dropped us because of the difficulty of dealing with the person who had just resigned as president. The HOA was only 10 units and thus not a huge financial loss.

The former president and her husband had pets that were not allowed by the HOA CC&R and well over the number, but they were complaining about little things in an email and soon after, the company dropped us.

The husband then was elected to the Board of Directors along with two other men. They were warned several times about the illegal actions they were taking and did not cease and desist. As a result, the board was taken to court and lost. The HOA was fined. The HOA then charged us with something, but and took us to court, but lost and were then forced to provide us with financial information.

One thing that a property management company should do is moderate between personal feuds and guide the HOA to stay within legal actions. We ultimately left the HOA which had to pay thousands of dollars because of their actions. Since we left the HOA has installed a playground without any regard for legal safety standards and its non-profit status has been suspended by the franchise tax board for at least two years.

The HOA does have termite problems, but refused to tent (board would not discuss). Since then more termites have been found. So termites were found in our roof. The adjoining condo was the one belonging to the problem couple. And on the other side of their condo, the adjoining condo also had to be treated for termites. The condo belonging to the couple likely has termites as well since it is sandwiched in between, but to my knowledge, they still won't permit tenting or even an inspection. It could be that they still have animals above the number allowed. But since the husband is the dominant member of the board of directors and there are only three people, it is unlikely anything will be done.

So there is a possibility for mismanagement and if you don't follow the financials closely and the state regulations as well, a self-managed HOA could get in trouble. Every member then needs to be pro-active in order to be a check and balance.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JM10 on 07/02/2017 12:20 PM

So there is a possibility for mismanagement and if you don't follow the financials closely and the state regulations as well, a self-managed HOA could get in trouble. Every member then needs to be pro-active in order to be a check and balance.

There is a possibility for mismanagement regardless if an Association is self managed or hires a management company.

The membership needs to understand that they are always the first line of defence (as it were), they are the checks and balances on how the Association is ran. If they choose to be apathetic, then the apathetic allow what happens.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

And directors especially need to review the financials diligently every month!!

How many units/homes in your HOA, Austin? Many amenities or other complexities?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

And directors especially need to review the financials diligently every month!!

How many units/homes in your HOA, Austin? Many amenities or other complexities?

MichaelH25 (Kansas)
Posts: 5

Posted:

As a new HOA President I went into our HOA Office and found a smaller tower with Vista on it. Oh my!!! We are still under the control (for any purchase over $500) due to the developer still building homes. Once all are sold, complete control reverts to the HOA. This being said, he was gracious enough to spend around $700 on a new tower and printer (Micro Center has great prices)... We have a number of new board members and we are trying to get up to speed with everything involving an HOA. Our goal is to provide sound management to the HOA, in a way that protects the homeowners, as well as the HOA itself. Eventually, the HOA management will be handled by the Board, and all bills aid for by the Treasurer. We haven't decided if this is something we will hire out yet or not. I honestly think we are a few years away from this scenario at this point.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 06/16/2017 8:59 AM
I believe our HOA (112 homes, $70K budget) could well operate without a MC if several owners were willing to do the work required. That said, none of our owners wants to do the work so we use an MC

I am quoting myself as it can be tough to find people willing to do the work to be a self managed association.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 09/18/2017 1:18 PM
I am quoting myself as it can be tough to find people willing to do the work to be a self managed association.

We're experiencing that here right now in spades. Zero cleanup of the common property (and we have a lot of it) since hurricane Irma went by over a week ago. Agenda meeting was scheduled three months ago for tomorrow evening (last board meeting was 3 months ago) but no notice has been posted yet. Our clubhouse is "closed due to no electricity and leaks DANGER", or so a sign on the door says. I was in there two days ago and the electricity is working, the AC is running and there was no sign of water leaks anywhere. Impossible to get any information out of anybody. Some directors seem to have gone into hiding hahaha.

The board here had a policy a few years ago of "Always Do As Little As Possible", but that seems to have changed now to "Do Nothing At All". Nobody wants to be on the maintenance committee, the landscape committee is on autopilot with no desire to change their ways and no direction from the board at all.

People came out of the woodwork last year when the board obtained bids from several different management companies. Nobody, including the board, wanted to increase assessments by $20 a month for a management company. I understand that to a point, but being self-managed has significant downsides if people aren't willing to shoulder the burden of actually doing the managing.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 09/18/2017 5:36 PM

but being self-managed has significant downsides if people aren't willing to shoulder the burden of actually doing the managing.

The worst of which is receivership.

If nobody volunteers, then the final act of any Officer would be to petition the court for receivership.
Depending on how large the Association is, the court may or may not take pity.
We are 130 lots. When we investigated the possibility, our attorney said the court would not be kind for this size of an Association.

Keep in mind that those who are willing to serve also have a limited amount of time and energy they are willing to give. My Association has pushed off many things due to lack of volunteers. Once someone complains, we explain that the Board simply doesn't have the time to look into the issue and ask if they would be willing to do the leg work for the Board to have options to consider. Sometimes they say yes. Sometimes they say no.

Although I am running for the Board again next year - I WILL NOT give the amount of time I have given in the past. Partially due to the way the membership reacted to an issue this year. Partially due to the fact that I'm simply worn out and am tired of dealing with the lack of volunteers.

GuyS (Arizona)
Posts: 19

Posted:

Our HOA of 238 homes is self-managed with some services contracted out. We have a CPA company that handles paying bills and collecting dues. Accounting is prepared by CPA with QuickBooks Online, from which our Treasurer creates monthly financial statements (CPA creates annual compilation statement). Bills are handled by our CPA firm through bill.com, and Board members have access to those records. Recorder duties are farmed out. Documents are kept in two places: for internal Board use, documents are kept in DropBox. We have one Pro account with 1 TB limit; Board and committee members have access to selected folders so they can get by with a free 2 GB Dropbox account. All public records are also kept on our website.

As backup, we annually get a CD of all bill.com records, including images of all invoices, and a backup of QuickBooks files.

For tracking issues, the method is left up to the responsible officer or committee. Our Landscape committee, for example, uses Excel spreadsheets to log issues and record their status. I handle tracking architectural change requests informally, through email. It's possible for an issue to get temporarily "lost" if no one is taking ownership of it (or even if they are). That usually results just in implementation of some idea being delayed--not a critical matter.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

I misspoke in my earlier post. The cost per home per month for a full service mgmt company here would be $10, not $20. I started to think about this yesterday in terms of fairness. The choice is everyone pays an extra $10 a month for professional management, or rely on 5 homeowners who put in at least 20 hours a month gratis. If you consider that these volunteers' time is worth maybe $15 an hour, then we're getting demonstrably worse management and paying more for it. Everyone thinks, at least subconsciously, why should we pay another $10 a month when these other homeowners are doing it for free?

Volunteers in a self-managed community inevitably suffer from burnout and then even less gets done for a while until someone else steps up to take over for them. If there was a steady stream of new people willing to step up then things might be better, but when it's the same people year in and year out it's not fair to them and it's not really a good deal for the homeowners either. It's a lousy arrangement. To be honest, though, some of our "volunteer managers" (and the ones doing most of the work aren't even on the board, they're on key committees often flying solo) enjoy doing it. They're retired and it keeps them off the streets. Unfortunately the quality of their decisions isn't always good.

DonnaP6 (Indiana)
Posts: 1

Posted:

while thats all good, some of us that dont have management company, and the board hides everything. not to mention the bi laws are over 40 yrs old and pertains all the builders stuff, but they wont change them.

I am just wondering if Indiana is a state where having a registered agent is a law??

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

If you are incorporated, you are most likely required to have a registered agent.

A RA is typically an attorney but can be anyone.
It's simply the individual the Corporation identifies as the contact for official correspondence.

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