Swimming Pool attire

DennisG7 (Georgia)
Posts: 155

Posted:

I do not go to our pool very much but I was recently surprised when I made a trip last week and saw all the young people wearing thongs and much less. Then this past weekend a neighbor and her husband told me she was shocked at what the girls were (or were not wearing) at the pool. She said she had sent an email to the HOA and to Pool Committee Chair regarding the attire, calling it highly inappropriate. In the 15 years I've been here I had never heard of any complaints but it appears that this year many of the younger people are wearing "swimming suits" that leave little to the imagination. Our pool rules say nothing about swim suits and the "see through" clothes that are apparently the fashion this year.

Does anyone have a set of rules that might be used to used by the HOA to address this problem? I see a possible issue as younger people and possibly a few parents may object to such rules. The first group of teens being asked to leave the pool or cover up smacks of retaliation.

Any thoughts would be helpful.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Designs for swim wear, as with clothing, has changed over the years.

As long as swim wear is being worn, I don't think the Association has much of a position without potential legal action if they try to restrict the type of swim wear.

here are a couple of rules on dress I have seen:

Use of pool is limited to persons wearing proper swim attire (i.e. bathing suits, no cutoff shorts).

Proper swimming attire is required. Cutoffs, shorts, jeans and diapers may not be worn in the pools; tee shirts over appropriate swimwear are permitted. Use of appropriate covering apparel to and from the pools is required. Pool shoes should only be used in the pool area.

This topic was raised on the forum back in 2010:

ubject: Swimming Pool Dress Code?

Here is an article I located:

This Side of the Law: Fine-Tune Swimming Pool Rules to Avoid Fair Housing Lawsuits 2014 article

Hope this helps,

Tim

GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669

Posted:

Any attempt to legislate behavior will be met with resistance and possibly ugly and expensive backlash.

Attempts to modify clothing attire in schools/public have been met in the public with lawsuits by parents and national news coverage.

Yes, Associations can make "reasonable rules" regarding attire at pool. "Reasonable" is in the eye of the beholder and any attempt to "reason away" the right to personally express oneself through one's clothes choices is probably not going to fly if legally disputed.

IMO, the association should enjoy the view and realize that this is not a controllable aspect of community life. The HOA's job is to maintain common areas--not human behavior. If an ordinance is being violated, complain to the Sheriff or county.

DennisG7 (Georgia)
Posts: 155

Posted:

Thanks. I think if it's being worn correctly we don't have much to say.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

What does it really matter? Reality check. People are free to wear what they want. As long as it's posted you have to wear bathing suits and baby in diapers must wear diaper protectors. (I.e no naked babies in pool) then divert your eyes...

Former HOA President

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

In order to make an informed statement regarding this topic, we'll need to see pictures of these suits in question.

P.S. I certainly hope I never have to act on this type of complaint.

Question- Couldn't the BOD vote on a change to the Rules and Regulations, or maybe the pool rules, to solve this? I know you can't thongs and strings (who would want to), but see-through?
Just wondering.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'm curious to know what "much less than" thongs are, Dennis!?

And...are you also saying some wear see through bathing suits?? I've seen the see-thru style worn over non-pool bikini panties, but not over nothing!

We have rules similar to the ones Tim listed but not against "swim shoes," which I haven' seen anyone wear outside of the pool area.

The board here wants to vote against kids under 5 being in the spa, but a neighbor already has threatened to sue if we implement that one (sorry to go off-topic, this just happened). don't have HOA counsel's advice yet.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

A couple of our older residents pushed very hard a few years ago for a change to our pool rules regarding attire. They didn't want their visiting grandchildren to be scandalized by the skimpy bathing suits and bikinis they saw at the pool. The board didn't really want to "go there" but relented and modified the pool rules to say only "appropriate attire" should be worn in the pool (as well as no cutoff shorts, etc.)

I live close to the pool and never saw anything offensive. And believe me, I looked. I did see one article about a new condo owner in south FL who was from South America and apparently her clear plastic see-through bikini was all the rage in Brazil. The condo association went into an uproar. It was a pretty funny article but search as I might, I can't find it now.

GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669

Posted:

Is it females or males wearing thongs? In our HOA, the males are the ones who seem to want to display and outline the curvature and dimensions of their anatomy with small patches of stretchy fabric at the pool. It's like a train wreck. You can't take your eyes away even though you wish you could unsee it.

Pool rules generally refer to maintenance, safety and health hazards. Esthetics are too subjective. Bathing suit dimensions or styles are not addressed. Nudity, of course, would be a public "nuisance" and the county constable would intervene. Cutoff shorts have hanging threads that can clog the pool operating works (as does human hair) but for some odd reason, cutoffs are not allowed and bathing caps are not required. Go figger. The kiddies would likely think nothing about the situation unless their parent/guardian reacts.

This thread has some pretty humorous comments!

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

? y'all mean like this ?

http://assets.yandycdn.com/Products/EY_3524B_BLK_FRONT.jpg

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

? or like this ?

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/keyw.com/files/2014/06/Thong-Image.jpg

MichelleK5 (New York)
Posts: 161

Posted:

This topic is so ridiculous, so absurd, it's crazy that some places actually have dress codes for the pool so as not to offend others.
It's a pool for gods sake- people are going to be nearly naked. Don't like it? Don't look.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichelleK5 on 06/13/2017 2:29 PM
This topic is so ridiculous, so absurd, it's crazy that some places actually have dress codes for the pool so as not to offend others.
It's a pool for gods sake- people are going to be nearly naked. Don't like it? Don't look.

I agree with you but here in Florida there are many who espouse a bible-belt sort of morality. It's the classic, "I'll know it when I see it," test for what's un)reasonable. In my HOA every board meeting begins with the Pledge of Allegiance and a prayer that always ends, "In Jesus' name." We have 100 homeowners and not all are of the Christian faith. We've got a few Jewish owners and a Muslim owner as well. I cringe every time the prayer is said at the beginning of the meetings. In my opinion, that prayer is more inappropriate than any form of swimwear.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichelleK5 on 06/13/2017 2:29 PM
This topic is so ridiculous, so absurd, it's crazy that some places actually have dress codes for the pool so as not to offend others.
It's a pool for gods sake- people are going to be nearly naked. Don't like it? Don't look.

Actually its not. Where I lived we had a dress code that was used to maintain the cleanliness of the pool. It appears that certain dark color clothing, in particular t-shirts and shorts caused a problem with the chlorination process for the pool. This was the probably choice of clothing for one ethic group and during the time they were in the community, pool service had to be doubled at an substantial increase in price.

Thus the clothing policy.

GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669

Posted:

@PITA That second image OMG! That's nearly it plus 40 lbs though I have not yet seen the avant guarde mono (or Mano) strap version.

@Geno: DITTO in my HOA meetings. It is hippocritical as well as inappropriate because the real-life behavior of these Bible-Beaters is quite shocking in contrast their heavenly beseeching of god's blessing. My HOA lives in a bubble.

MichelleK5 (New York)
Posts: 161

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 06/13/2017 2:48 PM

Posted By MichelleK5 on 06/13/2017 2:29 PM
This topic is so ridiculous, so absurd, it's crazy that some places actually have dress codes for the pool so as not to offend others.
It's a pool for gods sake- people are going to be nearly naked. Don't like it? Don't look.

Actually its not. Where I lived we had a dress code that was used to maintain the cleanliness of the pool. It appears that certain dark color clothing, in particular t-shirts and shorts caused a problem with the chlorination process for the pool. This was the probably choice of clothing for one ethic group and during the time they were in the community, pool service had to be doubled at an substantial increase in price.

Thus the clothing policy.

If you're talking about a particular religious group, you can't create rules that could exclude them due their own dress code anyway. And if your HOA did, it's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

My entire point was most people (excluding religious groups) will wear next to nothing when they use a pool. If someone finds the human body offensive, don't look.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

Does the YMCA still have totally nude swimming ?

They DID circa 1959.

Nobody cared.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichelleK5 on 06/13/2017 3:14 PM

Posted By RichardP13 on 06/13/2017 2:48 PM

Posted By MichelleK5 on 06/13/2017 2:29 PM
This topic is so ridiculous, so absurd, it's crazy that some places actually have dress codes for the pool so as not to offend others.
It's a pool for gods sake- people are going to be nearly naked. Don't like it? Don't look.

Actually its not. Where I lived we had a dress code that was used to maintain the cleanliness of the pool. It appears that certain dark color clothing, in particular t-shirts and shorts caused a problem with the chlorination process for the pool. This was the probably choice of clothing for one ethic group and during the time they were in the community, pool service had to be doubled at an substantial increase in price.

Thus the clothing policy.

If you're talking about a particular religious group, you can't create rules that could exclude them due their own dress code anyway. And if your HOA did, it's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

My entire point was most people (excluding religious groups) will wear next to nothing when they use a pool. If someone finds the human body offensive, don't look.

The group was Asian students.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PitA on 06/13/2017 3:52 PM
Does the YMCA still have totally nude swimming ?

They DID circa 1959.

Nobody cared.

It was mandatory, as I recall.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Actually, PITA may be on to something . . .

Go to your local YMCA and ask what rules they might have that govern pool attire. If they have no rules regarding that, maybe dig a bit deeper and ask the appropriate personnel what they do when/if the see someone who may be wearing a questionable swimsuit.

Then simply implement the same policies/rules at your pool without prejudice. It's also a simple answer back to people on how the rules were developed and where they came from.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

Then simply implement the same policies/rules at your pool without prejudice.

Impossible

Babies

Infants

Toddlers

Religious nudists

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Once again, topics like this are why I’m glad our community got rid of our pool (although cost and low use were the main drivers). Nonetheless, here’s one person’s opinion:

I agree with Tim and Gwen that dress rules should only require swim clothes and kids with diapers must use swim diapers. The rest is too subjective and can get you in trouble. That said, I think it’s helpful to remind homeowners that while the Association cannot regulate the style of swimwear, the pool is used by residents of all ages, beliefs, etc., so be a good neighbor and use some discretion in their dress.

Note to Kerry – here’s an article on kids and hot tubs/spas your Board may wish to review (perhaps with your attorney as well) to find a balance between banning kids vs. putting them in danger. Better yet, print it off or send the link to the threatening neighbor – that may change his/her tune. https://www.thespruce.com/when-can-grandchildren-hot-tub-spa-1696192

Note to Richard and Gwen – I also agree that prayer in HOA meetings is inappropriate because it’s too easy to leave other religions out. And Gwen, you’re absolutely right about people who invoke Jesus on one hand and then do and say and think in a way that’s against everything He said. Jesus had a few things to say about that in the Sermon on the Mount…

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 06/14/2017 7:05 AM
Once again, topics like this are why I’m glad our community got rid of our pool (although cost and low use were the main drivers). Nonetheless, here’s one person’s opinion:

I agree with Tim and Gwen that dress rules should only require swim clothes and kids with diapers must use swim diapers. The rest is too subjective and can get you in trouble. That said, I think it’s helpful to remind homeowners that while the Association cannot regulate the style of swimwear, the pool is used by residents of all ages, beliefs, etc., so be a good neighbor and use some discretion in their dress.

Note to Kerry – here’s an article on kids and hot tubs/spas your Board may wish to review (perhaps with your attorney as well) to find a balance between banning kids vs. putting them in danger. Better yet, print it off or send the link to the threatening neighbor – that may change his/her tune. https://www.thespruce.com/when-can-grandchildren-hot-tub-spa-1696192

Note to Richard and Gwen – I also agree that prayer in HOA meetings is inappropriate because it’s too easy to leave other religions out. And Gwen, you’re absolutely right about people who invoke Jesus on one hand and then do and say and think in a way that’s against everything He said. Jesus had a few things to say about that in the Sermon on the Mount…

Why am I mentioned?

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

.....and kids with diapers must use swim diapers.

You may NOT single out 'kids'.

You MAY state '.....and persons with diapers must use swim diapers'.

HOWEVER

The Center for Disease Control (CDC) classifies 'swimmies' as 'fecal teabags'.

Fecal Tea Bags. The CDC has determined that swim diapers are not effective in preventing contamination. Although swim diapers prevent solid feces from escaping (assuming they are properly fitted and changed often), they cannot prevent leakage of urine or diarrhea, which contain infection-causing germs. Some refer to swim diapers as "fecal tea bags." See news release by the National Swimming Pool Foundation.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

In Florida it's important to require swimming diapers for anyone who may not have complete control over their body functions. Many older people need them too, it's not just infants.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PitA on 06/14/2017 7:59 AM

.....and kids with diapers must use swim diapers.

You may NOT single out 'kids'.

You MAY state '.....and persons with diapers must use swim diapers'.

HOWEVER

The Center for Disease Control (CDC) classifies 'swimmies' as 'fecal teabags'.

Fecal Tea Bags. The CDC has determined that swim diapers are not effective in preventing contamination. Although swim diapers prevent solid feces from escaping (assuming they are properly fitted and changed often), they cannot prevent leakage of urine or diarrhea, which contain infection-causing germs. Some refer to swim diapers as "fecal tea bags." See news release by the National Swimming Pool Foundation.

LOL ... Fecal Tea Bags ... Nice to find out CDC has determined what I have always believed. Good nickname ... potentially a valid reason to not allow swim diapers.

GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669

Posted:

ha! That's why I don't use the pool or spa! In my HOA, there are mostly elderly. Last summer, there was floating (indicates a fatty diet) Tauric KaKa in the pool and they had to shut it down to super shock and restabilize. Bleccchhh!

Not my bag 'o tea!

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Since the opening of pool season here in Vegas, this was the result at the Hard Rock Casino.Keep in mind they were hit hard last year with fines by the health department.
http://www.ktnv.com/news/some-saying-vegas-dayclub-security-checking-for-underwear-for-entering

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LetA on 06/14/2017 10:18 AM
Since the opening of pool season here in Vegas, this was the result at the Hard Rock Casino.Keep in mind they were hit hard last year with fines by the health department.
http://www.ktnv.com/news/some-saying-vegas-dayclub-security-checking-for-underwear-for-entering

I prefer the Aria Hotel, it's topless.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

OMG I was just looking at the CDC's Vessel Sanitation Program and when I saw "a log must be kept" I thought it meant a different type of log.

Seriously though, this is interesting stuff I was not aware of, PitA, thank you. Until these CDC guidelines filter down to the states then I'm afraid many associations will continue to try and avoid discrimination and fair housing lawsuits at all costs, even if it puts other pool users at risk. Those CDC guidelines, for what it's worth, date from about 15 years ago!

Here's a comment I found on another board from 2004:

Quote:

Posted on 04/27/2004 10:35 PM
You should have seen the DIS boards (for Disney cruise line) during the time period between when they (sanely) outlawed non-potty trained children in any pool, and the time they put in the constantly-recycling-water toddler splash pool. People were so indignant that their little Johnny didn't have the right to turn the pool into a biohazard. And they just couldn't grok the concept that swim diapers don't hold in germs.

So... no children with swim diapers, check. We'll just have to deal with frequent 24 hour closures to deal with "fecal accidents". Either that or ban them from the pool and defend against housing discrimination lawsuits.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Remember, cruise ship do not have U.S. Registries.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Sorry, I think I was commenting on something Geno said

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

South Carolina Dept. of Health & Enviro. Control (DHEC) uses a national standard 'pool rule' code.

Their exact terminology: Persons with diarrheal illness are prohibited from the pool.

ANY diarrhea is considered an illness.

Our HOA's pool rule: No incontinent or diarrheal person allowed in pool.

BOTH the aged (we are a 55+ community) and the parents of their grandkids screamed and complained.

We quoted the CDC and stood our ground.

Our pool is now both clean AND sanitary.

ps. there is now a very unpleasant chlorine resistant parasite (crytosporum) 'going around', said critter is found in diarrhea and is EXTREMELY contagious.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

..... Either that or ban them from the pool and defend against housing discrimination lawsuits. .....

Don't ban the kids.

Ban incontinent persons REGARDLESS of age or cause.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 06/14/2017 11:44 AM
Remember, cruise ship do not have U.S. Registries.

Perhaps that is WHY they have safer pools.

It breaks my heart to say.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Caesars, the adult pool is called Bare

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LetA on 06/14/2017 11:58 PM
Caesars, the adult pool is called Bare

LOL ... You guys are too funny. FYI ... Bare is actually at the Mirage: https://barepoollv.com/home

DennisG7 (Georgia)
Posts: 155

Posted:

Wow! This question got much more then I bargained for. I'm a red blooded retired vet and have not voiced any concerns to our HOA Board or the Pool Committee regarding attire. I had asked the question only to see if anyone had a set of rules I might present to the HOA Board at a recent meeting. In the end I said nothing and submitted nothing relating to the subject. From all I have been told the "concern" came from a few parents that were at the pool and observed the attire and described it to me. I've made only one visit to the pool so far and on that day I was the only one there...early morning. I appreciate the feedback and comments. We did have an incident of nudity a couple weeks ago. Young teen apparently au natural at the pool. That was quickly stopped. Thanks for all the comments.
DennisG

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Thank you so much for your service!!! ... Hope you did not mind when we got a little off track and had a bit of fun with the issue. Even with the fun I did learn a few things myself so it was beneficial.

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

This was a great thread!!

Thanks Dennis!

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

..... From all I have been told the "concern" came from a few parents that were at the pool and observed the attire and described it to me. .....

Hearsay.

Therefor does not exist.

My HOA only addresses SIGNED complaints submitted by actual member/owners.

He said She said I am offended I don't like blah blah blah.

All treated as the Ka-Ka it is.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

Cryptosporidium (also known as "Crypto"):

There are many species of Cryptosporidium that infect animals, some of which also infect humans. The parasite is protected by an outer shell that allows it to survive outside the body for long periods of time and makes it very tolerant to chlorine disinfection.

While this parasite can be spread in several different ways, water (drinking water and recreational water) is the most common way to spread the parasite. Cryptosporidium is a leading cause of waterborne disease among humans in the United States.

https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/crypto/index.html

RECREATIONAL WATER = SWIMMING POOLS (as well as lakes / rivers / streams).

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 06/13/2017 2:41 PM

Posted By MichelleK5 on 06/13/2017 2:29 PM
This topic is so ridiculous, so absurd, it's crazy that some places actually have dress codes for the pool so as not to offend others.
It's a pool for gods sake- people are going to be nearly naked. Don't like it? Don't look.

I agree with you but here in Florida there are many who espouse a bible-belt sort of morality. It's the classic, "I'll know it when I see it," test for what's un)reasonable. In my HOA every board meeting begins with the Pledge of Allegiance and a prayer that always ends, "In Jesus' name." We have 100 homeowners and not all are of the Christian faith. We've got a few Jewish owners and a Muslim owner as well. I cringe every time the prayer is said at the beginning of the meetings. In my opinion, that prayer is more inappropriate than any form of swimwear.

It amazes me still that people can say "if you don't like it, just don't look at it" and yet they can't say "if you don't like the prayer, just don't pray along".

Off topic, I know.

MichelleK5 (New York)
Posts: 161

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DouglasM6 on 06/15/2017 10:52 AM

Posted By GenoS on 06/13/2017 2:41 PM

Posted By MichelleK5 on 06/13/2017 2:29 PM
This topic is so ridiculous, so absurd, it's crazy that some places actually have dress codes for the pool so as not to offend others.
It's a pool for gods sake- people are going to be nearly naked. Don't like it? Don't look.

I agree with you but here in Florida there are many who espouse a bible-belt sort of morality. It's the classic, "I'll know it when I see it," test for what's un)reasonable. In my HOA every board meeting begins with the Pledge of Allegiance and a prayer that always ends, "In Jesus' name." We have 100 homeowners and not all are of the Christian faith. We've got a few Jewish owners and a Muslim owner as well. I cringe every time the prayer is said at the beginning of the meetings. In my opinion, that prayer is more inappropriate than any form of swimwear.

It amazes me still that people can say "if you don't like it, just don't look at it" and yet they can't say "if you don't like the prayer, just don't pray along".

Off topic, I know.

Huh? I take no offense to prayer in public places. Don't care one way or the other. Just understand that while you're praying to Jesus, someone next to you may be praying to Allah (just an example.)
Don't take offense to that either.

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

I meant no offense. I should have put a little more time and effort into my reply. It is more directed at our nation, as a whole.
We are subject to parades of nudity, porn, etc., and told to turn our heads if we don't like it. Yet, people are offended by and try to stop praying and pledging to the flag, instead of ignoring it.

No offense meant, Michelle.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

The words 'under God' were added to our pledge circa 1954 by 'decree' of then President Eisenhower to combat the 'godless communists' across the ocean.

These unfortunate words placed our nation's allegiance SUBSERVIANT to the God of our individual belief.

'one nation, indivisible, under god......' were NOT in the pledge previously

So, now, a pledger's allegiance is to their god first THEN our nation.

E PLURIBUS UNUM died a religious death as we were now pledged to our individual gods first instead of DIRECTLY to our nation.

ORIGINALLY it was to the flag of the US with our trust placed in god.

Words have meanings. Different words have different meanings. Grammatical sequence also has meaning.

The issues are similar to poorly executed Covenants and Restrictions.

GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669

Posted:

I don't believe anyone expressed being offended by public or pre-Board meeting prayer. It was an incidental comment to the nearly-there swimsuit brouhaha. The stated objection was that prayer/pledge of allegiance before a board meeting was more inappropriate in a business setting comprised of a diverse population that was the presence of skimpy swimsuits in a pool, (an observation that I totally agree with).

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GwenG on 06/15/2017 1:09 PM
I don't believe anyone expressed being offended by public or pre-Board meeting prayer. It was an incidental comment to the nearly-there swimsuit brouhaha. The stated objection was that prayer/pledge of allegiance before a board meeting was more inappropriate in a business setting comprised of a diverse population that was the presence of skimpy swimsuits in a pool, (an observation that I totally agree with).

I believe that if a people can be told/taught to "just not look", they can also be taught to "just don't pray/listen".

During the time the prayer is being said, people of other faiths can silently pray to their God of choice. People who lack faith can use that time for other things; maybe get their thoughts and notes together.

Point is, the prayer/faith is not being forced upon anyone just as the skimpy bathing suites are not. Both can be ignored, if one so chooses.

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PitA on 06/15/2017 1:04 PM
The words 'under God' were added to our pledge circa 1954 by 'decree' of then President Eisenhower to combat the 'godless communists' across the ocean.

These unfortunate words placed our nation's allegiance SUBSERVIANT to the God of our individual belief.

'one nation, indivisible, under god......' were NOT in the pledge previously

So, now, a pledger's allegiance is to their god first THEN our nation.

E PLURIBUS UNUM died a religious death as we were now pledged to our individual gods first instead of DIRECTLY to our nation.

ORIGINALLY it was to the flag of the US with our trust placed in god.

Words have meanings. Different words have different meanings. Grammatical sequence also has meaning.

The issues are similar to poorly executed Covenants and Restrictions.

Thank you Captain Obvious!!

GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669

Posted:

The point is that people refuse to ignore the swimsuit issue; someone will be offended and pressure the HOA to "make a rule" to control this personal expression.

So, if the HOA is expected to intervene in the swimsuit issue, why isn't the HOA expected to intervene in the Prayer/Pledge board meeting practice of selectively choosing pledges and prayers?

Both behaviors are being forced upon others by virtue of capture to a privately-owned environment for the exclusive use of Owners. We live in a very diverse society. Just because people choose to live in the same community does not mean they share the same beliefs and traditions. Should bathers stop using their amenity and be forced to "Suck it up Buttercup"? Should members stop attending board meetings and subjected to the choices of one group's collective practices? These are both legitimate concerns and both should be addressed in some respectful and appropriate business fashion.

To cowtow to one group and expect the other group to just ignore the behavior is inconsistent at best and hypocritical, discriminatory and insensitive at worst.