Playing in the Streets (townhome development)

Started by TimB4 • 9 replies • 2509 views

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TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

If you live in a town home development you are aware that areas for children to play can be minimal.

The children in our area (currently mainly boys) are, in my opinion, being children.
They throw things, they kick things, they ride scooters and bicycles in the streets and, often, leave toys in the common areas.

Today I had a member approach me asking what can be done about playing in the streets and leaving scooters laying about.

I explained that this is not really an Association issue but a parenting issue.
The Association can place articles in the newsletter but we can't guarantee that the articles will be read or adhered to. The better option would be for him (and others) who see this activity is to approach the child's parent and let the parent know what is going on. He didn't want to do this.

My question to the group is - am I wrong?
Is this more of an Association issue and, if it is, what can be done about it?

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

If the Association controls the Common Areas and the issues happen in the Common Area, who regulates what happens in the Common Area. Unfortunately, the Association and its BOD are responsible for what can and can't be done in the Common Area.

I don't believe that Condos and Townhomes and some PUD's are the right environment to bring up kids, especially anyone over the age of ....8.

Proper Rules and Regulations might control some of the issues, but not in all cases. Tough calls.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

My HOA went through the HUD adjudication process over restricting children; foolishly fought it; and lost big time. From studying of what happened at my HOA, I think a HOA board has to contemplate two issues. First, I would read about how HUD has responded to communities that restrict kids' playing in the communities' parking lot. For example, see ttps://fairhousing.foxrothschild.com/2015/11/articles/discrimination/hud-files-new-familial-status-housing-discrimination-complaint/ .

Second, regarding scooters being left in the streets, I would look to the governing documents. What do they say about members (or their kids) doing something on the common elements (like leaving scooters lying about) that is a threat to others' property and personal safety?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

You're absolutely correct! I live in a townhouse community and see this a lot – especially since I live on the corner of one street that’s close to our playground. My tree used to have several low hanging branches and kids (being kids, as you said) would use it as a makeshift swing.

I agree parents need to remind kids to pick up after themselves – and your neighbor needs to assert himself. When I was on the board we had the occasional article in our newsletter about parents telling kids not to leave their toys lying about because it can get damaged or stolen.

Since I’m probably known as the cranky lady on the corner anyway, I would usually ask the kids to pick up their stuff and 99% of the time, that took care of it. If I’d seen the kids across the street or around the corner playing with this stuff and they weren’t outside, I’d toss it across the street to their yard. If I didn’t know who the stuff belonged to, I figured those kids weren’t interested in their toys anymore, so I picked them up and planned to donate them to Goodwill. I haven’t gotten around to that yet, so I have two aluminum baseball bats, one golf club (a putter, I think), a football and one skateboard in my garage!

Kids don’t leave their stuff on my lawn anymore either. They also stopped playing with the tree branch after wind finally blew it down - fortunately no one was hurt. The tree was also pruned this year so there are no low hanging branches and the others are too far up to climb without a rope.

I suppose your neighbor doesn’t want to confront the parents, but that’s not the board’s problem. He’ll have to learn to approach the kids in a nice way, as I did (since some kids in my neighborhood are prone to cussing people out, it’s prudent to learn to do that!)

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

We're a high rise condo with no streets, but a fair amount of common area hardscape. Our rules state that no wheeled devices of any kind may be used in any of our common areas. Our rules also state that no personal items may be staged, stored or placed in the common areas, e.g. in our hallways or lobbies, etc.

They also may not be stored on our exclusive use balconies, patios or decks. Though children, usually grandkid visit a lot, I'd say in our 200+ condos, we only have a dozen kids under 14, mostly infants.

But streets are different and I'd expect kids to play on them with all manner of equipment. I think if these items strewn around are unsightly to a lot of Owners, a rule can be made that they may not be "stored" in the common areas. It could be added that any such items left in the common areas can be collected by the HOA and (as inspired by Sheila) be donated to charity after a few days of the HOA storing them. As I think Tim knows, the language of "kids' toys," etc., cannot be used, but generic language that doesn't' reference age, can be used. The main thing is: who would enforce such a rule?

I don't believe, per Augustine, that rules ONLY can be made for safety reasons or to protect HOA property. Plenty of HOAs have rules that help assure a nice appearance, e.g., how long trash cans may be curbside. In addition, it might be argued, that personal items stored in the common areas could be trip hazards in the dark, obstacles to landscapers during the day, and possibly even hindrances to emergency vehicles. The latter is the reason nothing can be in our interior corridors, e.g., welcome mats, planters, etc.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Thanks to all who have replied.

To clarify a few things:

We have no rules of conduct for the common area (we really thought common sense would prevail)
The covenants does address personal property not being put away after use. However, we don't really know who the toys belong to.
We do have 2 small (emphasis on word small) playgrounds but mainly for 3-6 year olds (swing, slide, spring toys).

For anyone in a similar situation, I did find the following articles that may be of interest (may help in telling parents to parent without saying those words):

Outside Safety Tips for Kids at Play in Your Homeowners Association

What Can We do? Our HOA Court Has Been Invaded By Children. September 2014 attorney newsletter

Does Your HOA Have a Kid-Related Rule Like This One? Rethink It. Dated July 2014

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

O ~ M ~ G

Children ... Playing ... In ... The ... Streets

RUN RUN FAST RUN FAR

THE HORROR THE HORROR

AAAUUUUUUUGH CHIIIILLLDREEN

My HOPA compliant HUD approved death house community has solved this very issue.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I think, Tim that if enough Owners in your HOA don't want any personal times laying around in the common areas, they can ask the Board to make a rule about it. Perhaps you can help them word it. What is the wording of the current rule you mention above? Do your CC&Rs give your HOA to make rules about the common areas?

The rule might be formulated such that any items in the common area after x hours will be removed and stored for xx days. If unclaimed they will be donated to charity. This should mean it doesn't matter if it's known who the item beings to. The publicity for the new rule would put the issue where it belongs: on the item's owner.

But, again, enforcement might be an issue. Who enforces? Second, is there really enough interest in your HOA to bother with a new rule?

Kids playing in the streets is an entirely different matter as your readings point out.

MB8 (Maryland)
Posts: 40

Posted:

Our Bylaws prohibit children from playing in the common areas. We do have a tot lot where kids can run around but that is it. I think it is an association issue since they are playing in the common areas.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

Our Bylaws prohibit children from playing in the common areas.

Good luck in court.

Y'all are ADMITTEDLY in violation of the 'Fair Housing Act'.

Now, if your bylaws were to prohibit playing in the common areas

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