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DanN3 (Florida)
Posts: 91
Posted:
In a Florida Condominium, CH 718, can the BOD add agenda items, legally, at a BOD meeting and vote on them at that time ?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I don't think setting the agenda is something the law would address, other than saying it should be made available to homeowners - if you didn't read this statute yourself, check your documents and/or ask a board member how agenda items are set.

As a practical matter, I would think a board should set some sort of deadline for agenda setting - anything not proposed by then may have to wait until the next meeting unless it was an emergency. This wouldn't include the usual - committee reports, treasurer reports, reading and approving minutes from the last meeting, hopefully, a resident forum, etc. If you have a resident forum and suggest the board take up an issue, it doesn't have to make a decision on that issue right then and there - they can (and probably should) do some research and plan to discuss the findings at the next meeting or have the matter reviewed by an advisory committee, etc.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We have some knowledgeable FL folks here, Dan, who will know the answer to your question.

In CA by statute, the open board meting agenda must be posted 4 days before the meeting. At the meeting no item requiring a board decision may be added unless an emergency.
DanN3 (Florida)
Posts: 91
Posted:
If an item is added at the meeting and voted on and the Bylaws are silent on that ability is the vote valid, assuming it is not an emergency matter ?
DanN3 (Florida)
Posts: 91
Posted:
I found is that the agenda must be posted 48 hours in advance of the meeting, as per statute. The governing documents are silent on this matter.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Our governing docs are silent on this too, but our CA Civil Code says what I wrote above.

If your state code says 48 hours than that's what your Board must adhering to. Can you give an example of what you feel th eboard voted on that they shouldn't have?

Are you on the Board, Dan?
DanN3 (Florida)
Posts: 91
Posted:
An example is, to consider replacing the Treasurer. However often agenda items are added at the meeting and thus the membership is unaware.

I am not on this board.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I'm in a FS 720 homeowners association and the statute is a bit different than it is for condos. My belief is that the legislature wanted to mirror the condo language re. posted agendas but they botched the wording and, as a result, the way it reads is that an agenda only has to be posted if the "broadcast method" is used to provide notice for a meeting. We do post meeting notice and agenda conspicuously in the community about 5 days ahead of time, but we've also added things to the agenda right then and there at the start of a meeting. Not often, but it does happen. Usually with committee reports where we think the committee chair is away but then they show up at the meeting, report in hand.

That wouldn't be allowed if we were a FS 718 condominium.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Is this an occasional thing or does it happen all the time? If it does happen a lot, what did the Board say when you asked them about this?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
DanN3 (Florida)
Posts: 91
Posted:
This is an occasional thing. However I don't see where the ability to do such is OK, if occasional. I do see add on capability, if an emergency condition exists.I have not asked them about this. Like a good attorney, I will ask when I already have a confident educated answer to argue with.
DanN3 (Florida)
Posts: 91
Posted:
In your opinion does a non-emergency agenda add on and voted on, at that time, be invalid or as if the vote did not take place at all ?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
How are you using the word "invalid," Dan? Do you mean that someone, perhaps you, can say to the Board during the meeting, "stop you cannot carry out that action you just voted to approve because the topic was not on the agenda"?

Or...what did you have in mind to force the board to rescind its vote?
DanN3 (Florida)
Posts: 91
Posted:
By invalid I mean that the enforcement, if litigated, would not prevail.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I think you'd need an attorney's opinion for an answer to that question, Dan.

Afar cheaper way MIGHT be: Pay an HOA attorney $250 or less to write a letter to the Board quoting the correct FL Code. Have the attorney demand on your behalf that the Board and here to the law if it wishes to avoid f possible litigation. The attorney might remind directors that if they knowingly break the law, they will not be protected by the Business Judgement Rule .
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I think you'd need an attorney's opinion for an answer to that question, Dan.

A far cheaper way MIGHT be: Pay an HOA attorney $250 or less to write a letter to the Board quoting the correct FL Code. Have the attorney demand on your behalf that the Board and here to the law if it wishes to avoid f possible litigation. The attorney might remind directors that if they knowingly break the law, they will not be protected by the Business Judgement Rule .
GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
Unlike Condos, the law does not require that an agenda be posted prior to an HOA board meeting:

CONDOs: 718112(2)(c)(1)

1. Adequate notice of all board meetings, which must specifically identify all agenda items, must be posted conspicuously on the condominium property at least 48 continuous hours before the meeting except in an emergency.

HOAs:

1. Notices of all board meetings must be posted in a conspicuous place in the community at least 48 hours in advance of a meeting, except in an emergency.
and...
However, if broadcast notice is used in lieu of a notice posted physically in the community, the notice must be broadcast at least four times every broadcast hour of each day that a posted notice is otherwise required. When broadcast notice is provided, the notice and agenda must be broadcast in a manner and for a sufficient continuous length of time so as to allow an average reader to observe the notice and read and comprehend the entire content of the notice and the agenda.

I do believe this is a error in the way the law was written. Regardless, as it stands at this moment in time, an agenda is NOT required to be posted or made available to HOA owners unless notice is electronic.

There is no specific statutory reference to adding items to an agenda for either HOA or CONDO. This is a policy of the association or, may be a policy by adopted of a set of Rules of Order. The agenda belongs to the board and it can be modified by majority vote of the board. As long as the business added does not otherwise require a different notice requirement, there is no need to worry about violating lawful notice. That being said, agendas are planning tools and IMO, Boards that constantly change their agendas at the meeting are disorganized at least. Agendas are the only way many people plan to attend a meeting..or not and adding things to agendas does not encourage owners to trust their board.
DanN3 (Florida)
Posts: 91
Posted:
Thanks for your detailed opinion. In regard to adding agenda items to a condominium agenda at the meeting, there is no standing association policy. If I understand you right, say for example an agenda contains one item only. The board votes at the meeting to add 5 more agenda items at the meeting and they vote on them. The only thing that they have to worry about is that some of the membership might think the BOD as being disorganized to those who request copy of the approved minutes which are made available months later and are available only upon a proper records access request as per association records request policy. Am I correct ?
GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
Essentially, yes though the timing of reporting seems odd to me in your example. Why would Minutes take months to produce? Why is a records request necessary to read the minutes?

In the absence of a specific policy for your association, there would simply be a board majority vote to add business to the agenda. In general, only "late-breaking" urgent business matters or emergency business would reasonably be added. It is not fair to the other directors to spring business on them for which they are unprepared.

I think that it is reasonable to think that at the very least, a board who publishes one agenda item and then adds 5 more at a meeting, is beyond disorganized. I would add unprepared, lacks care, does not have clear vision of its business, may be deceptive. I don't think owners would be very happy with such a haphazard attention to detail.
DanN3 (Florida)
Posts: 91
Posted:
Management is slow to reduce the minutes to writing, usually it takes two months from the date of the meeting for a draft to be ready and then it is put on the agenda for approval at the next months meeting. When it is BOD approved it is considered official records and all official records are subject to policy which requires notification to view association records, at the Board's attorneys office or the management office, via certified mail, pay for copies, if a copy machine is not brought along. Most will not go through the certified mail process and travel to records location especially if there appeared to be only one item on the agenda, especially if the posted agenda item is not controversial. Just the way it is. If lawful then just unfortunate.

Perhaps important to note that of the 115 units only 13 are owner occupied and board meetings are held during days and times when most people are working. Further, agendas are only available to see if you are on the property. Thus most owners do not even know there is a meeting scheduled or what the agenda is. Thus meeting attendance is very low and sometimes there is no audience at all.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Well, that's a big part of your problem - when the homeowners don't pay attention to what the board's doing, it's easy to run meetings - and the association - however you want. I understand people can't always attend meetings during the day because they're working - why no one's asked the board if they could reschedule to later in the day, who knows why. Unless and until the homeowners change their tune and demand accountability from the board, this is what you'll get. It may be you'll need to consider running for a seat on the board and work to change things.

And why is your property manager writing board meeting minutes????? That's the job of the Board secretary. Then again, the board is being haphazard in setting an agenda, so what do you expect?

When you go to the meeting, I hope you bring all this up. You might want to offer to assist the board in some way to get them organized, such as running the community website (if you have one and know how those operate) - this is where the agenda can be posted at the appropriate time.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
It is predictable that owners do not get involved because the overwhelming majority are absentee landlords now. Their connection to their community and to the housing unit is drastically changed in nature by the transition. Only a very small percentage of the units are occupied by an owners--who probably feel quite helpless.

Dan's condo is now a casual conversion rental community and the owners' interest now are to collect rents and try to keep the unit in one piece. This is a natural evolution in association-owned communities where original owners age or change priorities, leave the community and turn over the unit to either a property management company to lease or they give it a go as a landlord. The remaining 13 owners can organize a better functioning association but to what end now that absentee landlords have very limited commitment to community well-being. They are probably concerned only with fee increases that their rental income cannot absorb.

Dan might be able to shed a lot of very disturbing light on how such a community functions, in real life.

Probably the best that can be hoped for in such a tenant-dominated community is that the tenants abide the rules.

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