Banning Swim Diapers

SC:

Your board is not very bright, that is what swim diapers are for, they are a diaper that holds poo and does not contaminate the water. Having had two small kids at one time who used swim diapers in many public facilities I don't see how this is a reasonable rule. Furthermore, it is a red flag when you are not taking your attorney's advice. I would be interested to see how this shakes out.

You could be in trouble. I've never seen complete banning of non toilet trained children. Who will judge if the child is toilet trained? Sounds like you don't have guards, and will rely on others to report incidents after the fact. Then what is your recourse?
Usually just disposable diapers are banned for obvious reasons that they collect water and could pull the child down, and they also disintegrate. Even so-called disposable swim diapers are not good and frequently banned. Old fashioned cloth diapers with tight fitting rubber swim suits are usually allowed.
You have to remember that attorneys get paid for giving you advice and they can also get paid for defending you in court because of that advice.
I am so glad we don't have a common pool. Harold

FWIW: even swim diapers aren't 100%. We just had another incident at our pool from a child who was wearing a swim diaper. The problem is our pool has a shallow wading area with a fountain, and while she was playing in the fountain, some of the poo got washed out the diaper. At least this time the mother was good enough to call me as soon as she realized what had happened.

I still wouldn't try to ban non-toilet trained kids though. If nothing else, that would be a PR nightmare and a newsmans joy.

Make sure that your dissenting vote is noted by name in the board meeting minutes.

There are homeowners w/kids and grandchildren who were obviously unhappy. (They do represent a minority in the subdivision.) I think it's wrong as well. Does anyone have a link to something that would help me convince the majority that it is in their best interest to reverse their decision? Frankly, they state in private that they just don't like kids at the pool.

"Frankly, they state in private that they just don't like kids at the pool."

I'm no lawyer but maybe one could elaborate . . . If this statement is true and can be proven (i.e. you have heard it first hand) it seems, in IMO, that this is at best is and could require a vote of the membership. At worse, it might be considered acting in "bad faith". Our CC&R and by-laws will not imdemnify BOD that acts in "bad faith".

Good luck.

KathyS

From the first posting it doesn't state "kids" or "children" or even "babies", it says "person". So there is no discrimnation going on here. And as a parent of 2 kids there is not 100% protection that the diaper will hold all the poop. There could be a chance of contamination. Children that young should not be in or near pools anyways, you are running a high risk of drowning. Kids should be trained at home in a bath tub or small kiddie pool at you can purchase at your local retail Wal-Mart or Target store.

I didn't say that kids that young shouldn't be in pools. I said that kids shouldn't be in community pools, or public pools. I even mention to buy a kiddie pool where they should learn to swim, until they are potty trained. And it's not just lack of supervision. Some are more likely to drown just accidently. You just can't bear the fact that it happens. Just a teaspoon of water can drown you. People even drown in their own vomit. So don't tell me what I said and didn't say. I myself became a drowning victim, and it wasn't because my dad or mother was watching me, it was becuase of someone else self pity, that cause me to drown. Mark my words.

Kenny:

I am not sure why you are all riled up, I simply disagreed with you. And as Robert said your post said kids that age should not be in pools, you said nothing about public or private. I don't have statistically information but anytime I see or hear about a drowning it is because of a couple of things: 1)boating accident on a lake or river, 2) young child somehow gets in the backyard pool of its parents, 3) young child wanders from home and falls in a river or lake, 4) Child in a bathtub is left unattended. I have never heard of anyone drowning in a public pool. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, it just means I haven't heard of it. I know it takes very little water to drown.

We have gotten way off topic here, my point is that if you are going to ban all people who are not potty trained get ready for a fight. Because people of all ages and sizes have issue with bathroom problems. There are many adults that wear diapers because of things that I won't mention. Furthermore as I stated before there are many phycially and mentally challenged kids and adults who struggle with this. I can promise you that if you won't let swimmer diapers in the pool you will have some parents roll the dice with a partially potty trained kid, I know I would because I think this is very wrong and everyone should be allowed to enjoy the pool.

Does anyone have statistics on how effective swimmer diapers are? I know we had two kids who used them frequently and never had any issues.

I know we are way off subject, but check out the date of that article - 2002! I don't even think the current swim diapers were invented then. Also, I don't know of anyone that every uses cloth diapers anymore.

was this rule voted on by all the members or just the BOD? If just the BOD I think that this should have been voted on by all the members in that it affects the right of each members rights to use of the common area

Gee, I though advertising on this website was frowned upon.

The operative word being PERSON -

Another view -
Other rules considered discriminatory include the following:

• Prohibiting all non-toilet trained children from using the swimming pool. (A rule that requires all incontinent persons to wear waterproof pants would accomplish the same result without being discriminatory--sometimes 80-year-olds are incontinent.)

Still in denial Robert that you were wrong? Here is the source of the quote: http://www.diaperaps.com/home/dp1/moreinfo_main.html

Thank you HOA talk. This should convince the majority of the Board that they can be sued if they don't allow swim diapers.

Today, on the home page of HOA talk, there is another article about swim diapers - Ohio

OH: Toddler banned from pool
7/31/2007 6:23:53 AM

http://www.ohio.com/news/8823527.html

2 excerpts -
The complaints were filed with the Ohio Civil Rights Commission this month after Suzanne Malcom was told twice this year that she wasn't allowed to bring her 1-year-old son Lucas to the outdoor pool at the Seven Stories East Condominiums on East Market Street.

Seven Stories East has a spotty record with the Civil Rights Commission. The group was sued in 1995 for discrimination against a family and the case was settled out of court. Two years later, the group was sued again for discrimination against families with children and again it was settled out of court.

Michelle:

For the purposes of the health department it is still considered a public pool, I know what you are saying that it isn't open to the general public. But, since it is available to all homeowners it is still a public pool. I would be interested to see how this turns out, they put the age at 3 years old, I am curious as to their reasoning on that. It can't be they are concerned about fecal matter because there are many kids that are potty trained before 3, however, there are many kids who are not potty trained by the time they turn 3. And, there are physically and mentally challenged kids and there are some adults who have bathroom issues.

Michelle:

Here is a thought regarding access rights, I don't disagree with your view, but here is another view. I have been a part of renovation involving a basketball arena. We had to by code install wheelchair accessible showers and toilets in a basketball lockerroom. Now...I have never seen a person in a wheelchair play Division I, we argued that it wasn't a public restroom and shower. We were overruled that it was still public place. No one will ever use it except basketball players, but it was still considered a public place.

Now..I agree that the pool is only open to the membership, but in terms of classification I still think it falls under the classification of a public pool.

Michelle:

You would be right on that point. However, what is going to be their legal argument for not allowing anyone under 3 in the pool? It started out as they didn't want fecal matter, now it is anyone under 3? You can't just arbitrarily pull a number out of hat and say anyone over 50 can't be in the pool. You have to have a legitimate, valid reason. All I am saying is if they are going to use fecal matter as a reason, then if I am a parent of a 2 year old that is pottytrained they are discriminating against my kid because fecal matter doesn't apply.

Dwight:

The example you cited is a law and there are health reasons for it. As you said a 12 year old's body can't handle alchohol. As a parent of a child who was not potty trained by 3 and did not communicate that because of a significant speech delay I say the three year old argument based upon feces is bogus. Now, if there are significant risk factors like chlorine is dangerous for kids under three then I can understand that. But, as the parent of a kid who took swimming lessons at nine months of age, young children can be very adapt in the water. My kids can swim, I can't, who has a better chance of drowning, me or my younger kids. Many would argue they hope I go first!

Brad -
I agree that my example is a law and there are health/safety reasons behind it. My point was that it is a law based on the "typical" person of that age range. If we accept that law (rule), then it is perfectly reasonable for the HOA to create a rule for pool use based on the "typical" person who is under 3-years of age, also for health/safety reasons.

You and your children are specific cases. I'm sure that your kids probably were completely safe in the pool and were unlikely to cause unsafe conditions for others. And there are probably kids in my neighborhood in the same situation. But that doesn't remove the fact that society can and does create rules/laws based on the "typical" behavior of a person in an arbitrary age group.