Hover Boards - Questions

Started by CarolynM3 • 38 replies • 1644 views

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CarolynM3
Posts: 63

Posted:

The Board received an email from a resident complaining that a neighbor (condo) has a hover board and wants to know what the Board can do since these have been known to catch on fire. One of the Board members wants us to ask our insurer if our premiums might be impacted should a fire be created by one of these devices. He thinks we should ban them if they would have that impact. Just needing a "voice" of reason as I disagree with the Board's authority in this area.

Thoughts?

Thanks much!

RichardP13
Posts: 3,836

Posted:

I would ask the insurer their opinion on the subject.

If the hover boards are a safety concerns, especially as it applies to their use in the common area, it might something to address with your Rules and Regulations.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,967

Posted:

I didn’t know anyone was still using those after so many seemed to burst into flames.

In the stories I read, the people who usually got hurt were the riders – I never heard of burning hoverboards careening into a pile of flammable stuff, so I don’t think this is an association issue. It may be another story if the person is whizzing around the community causing near crashes, but if there haven’t been any problems at all, tell this person if/when things escalate to a safety issue, then you can discuss options such as banning (and even then, the homeowners should weigh in before a decision is made)

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,038

Posted:

Batteries generate the most heat (and are most like to catch fire) when charging or discharging (being used). Many of the hoverboard fires reported have happened when charging, so they are certainly a danger to anyone in the building they are in, not just the user. That said, I'm not sure what a board can do other than banning their use on common areas. Shy of a CCR amendment, I don't know that they can be banned from existing in a condo complex entirely.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,734

Posted:

Why? Because they made the news? Otherwise the answer is no banning. There are plenty of other items we use on a regular basis that is a fire risk. How about e-cigarettes? Going to ban those? Not allowed to use a lighter or candles when the lights go out?

The only thing we had recommended is no one use their Chimney/fireplaces until they have been inspected/cleaned. Otherwise, fire risk is always there. Not going to ban something because of head lines.

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Virginia)
Posts: 20,986

Posted:

We have them around our development a lot and have had zero issues.
We also have zero regulations on them.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,230

Posted:

And let us ban the cell phones that catch fire. Where do we stop? I say not begin.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,213

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/04/2017 5:09 PM
And let us ban the cell phones that catch fire. Where do we stop? I say not begin.

... The BOD main concern is what is already contained in the CCR's. When you add more items it potentially just increases your HOA legal liability. Similar to all dogs must be on a leash ... If you ban the boards (or state all dogs must be on leash) and someone violates the rules and causes damage. Potentially someone can sue the HOA because the HOA did not enforce its regulations and allowed a violation. Back to dogs must be on leash ... if HOA has this rule and a dog not on a leash bites someone the HOA potentially can face a lawsuit. Again, because you did not stop or prevent an action which violated your CCR's. Do you want to regulate these hover boards?

A good rule of thumb is do not regulate anything which may come back and bite you with regards to legal liability ... especially if the item is already covered by your local government (i.e. Most local governments state all dogs must be on a leash.). As John noted some cell phones have and/or can catch fire, so do you plan to regulate them also???

CarolynM3
Posts: 63

Posted:

This is what our current HOA Insurer told us:

1. The HOA would be liable (in excess of $10k) in the event of an injury to the rider or other person, as well as other physical damage caused by the use of a hoverboard.

2. The HOA would be liable (in excess of $10k) in the event of a fire due to an exploding battery or otherwise caused by a hoverboard.

3. The ownership or use of hoverboards does not currently affect the HOA policy premium. However, the insurer indicated that this could change if there continues to be injury and fire incidents with hoverboards.

4. While ownership or use of hoverboards, does not affect the premium, incidents requiring payment from the policy most likely would.

Based on the above, the insurer recommended that we ban the ownership and use of hoverboards, as we certainly have the authority to do so.

PitA
Posts: 1,366

Posted:

I will wager 100 to 1 that y'all do NOT have the authority to ban the ownership or internal storage of hoverboards.

Y'all MAY have the authority to ban the operation/use of them upon a 'common element'.

Or may not ..... have y'all STUDIED your 'governing documents'?

I will 'cover' a minimum bet of $1000, maximum $10,000 - ? shall we meet up in Vegas ?

CarolynM3
Posts: 63

Posted:

Declaration Excerpts.

Section 14(h) of the Declaration prohibits owners from use of their unit “. . . which could be in violation of any law or governmental code or regulation”. We have specifically prohibited the use of gas grills under this clause.
Section 14(i) provides that “[All]” governmental building codes, health regulations, zoning restrictions and the like . . . shall be observed”.
Section 14(r) provides that owners may not do anything which might result in termination of the Master policy, adversely affect our right of recovery under the policy, result in refusal of coverage, or result in an increase in premium. The section goes on to provide that if the premium payable with respect to insurance policies carried by the Association or ANOTHER UNIT OWNER is increased by reason of anything that is done OR KEPT IN A PARTICULAR UNIT , then the violating owner will reimburse the HOA or the affected owner for the increase.

TimB4 (Virginia)
Posts: 20,986

Posted:

Take the time and learn what has happened to cause the fires and since the faulty issue was discovered:

Here are the reasons why so many hoverboards are catching fire from Cnet December 2015

Are hoverboards safe yet? from Cnet December 2015

Half A Million 'Hoverboards' Recalled Over Risk Of Fire, Explosions From NPR July 2016

Keep in mind the same issue of catching fire occurred with Samsung phones.
A recall was done and Samsung phones are considered safe and things are moving forward.

Did your Association consider banning Samsung Note7 or Galaxy7s?
If not, then why are you considering banning hoverboards?

CarolynM3
Posts: 63

Posted:

TimB4...I am gathering information because I do not think it is a good thing to do. First, we can monitor "WHAT" folks have in their homes. Second, " our purview needs to be WHAT happens in the common areas". I can see banning the use of the hoverboard in the Common Areas, but we (BOARD) have no way to determine what is resident in someone's home. So, IMO, we are creating a rule that we cannot fully enforce.

Thanks.

CarolynM3
Posts: 63

Posted:

correction: we CAN'T monitor what folks have in their homes.

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 896

Posted:

This is a condo, and condos have considerable authority to control the inside of units, not just common areas. Examples include pets, business use, combustibles, anything that will increase insurance, odors (okay mostly if they get out of the unit I'll give you that one), rentals, signs (in windows), unsanitary conditions, vermin, criminals (background checks in some areas), inlaws (kidding), etc.

Yes, many of these are controversial, but some have withstood court challenges. These are mostly things that can get out of the unit into the common area or other units, at which point it is easier to enforce. The fact remains that condos can have restrictions on the interiors of units, especially when reasonable to protect other units.

That said, I doubt there is reasonable risk from a modern hover board.

PitA
Posts: 1,366

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PitA on 05/06/2017 8:59 AM
I will wager 100 to 1 that y'all do NOT have the authority to ban the ownership or internal storage of hoverboards.

Y'all MAY have the authority to ban the operation/use of them upon a 'common element'.

Or may not ..... have y'all STUDIED your 'governing documents'?

I will 'cover' a minimum bet of $1000, maximum $10,000 - ? shall we meet up in Vegas ?

Y'all CAN, however, ban ANY product which has actually been OFFICIALLY recalled.

Has EVERY brand/type been recalled?

When are you planning the 'stored recalled hoverboard inspection?

My bet still stands.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,230

Posted:

I advise they set up security screening and search each and every person for a Samsung Note7 or Galaxy7s cell phones. Got to pay close attention to searching the infants as mothers have been know to hide things in their baby's diaper. I will personally assume responsibility for searching selected females over age 21.

See how stupid this is becoming?

PitA
Posts: 1,366

Posted:

As stupid as the site moderator(s) will allow.

We also need to prohibit Gilbert Chemistry Sets.

'Book' matches.

Cooking oil.

Candles.

Magnifying lenses if the unit has a southern exposure.

and

most dangerous of all

Dihydrogen Oxide which has killed tens of millions of people over the course of history.

Wanna bet that said chemical has caused more death than any other?

Is this stupid enough to close the thread ?

CarolynM3
Posts: 63

Posted:

I think this needs to come down a decibel or two. I posed a valid question based on some actions proposed by my HOA Board, of which I am a member. It seems to have digressed into lunacy.

First, I was the sole member who opposed the proposal. Hence, that is why I came to you to get fuel and fodder for my rejection. At the best, I have been subjected to ridicule for even asking.

I will still share with you that based on the few folks that offered wisdom, rather than sarcasm, I have convinced the Board to write a rule that only prohibits the hover boards from being used in the Common Areas. This person has been seen flying down the halls, in the lobby and almost knocking someone down.I have convinced them that they have no legal right to ban "ownership" of the same. They have agreed with me.

Thank you for your patience. I am sorry it digressed into something that was not very pleasant.

Regards,

Carolyn

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 896

Posted:

It is perfectly reasonable for your board to inquire of the owner if this hoverboard is one that is subject to recall due to the risk of fire.

When a hoverboard is returned (to the seller or distributor) due to a recall, the hoverboard will be repaired, replaced or kept by the seller (refund), at which point the hoverboard will no longer be hazardous.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 491

Posted:

According to Spinal Tap, a lot of drummers catch fire

PitA
Posts: 1,366

Posted:

...extinguish them with Dihydrogen Oxide

CarolynM3
Posts: 63

Posted:

Admin...please close out this thread on my behalf. Some folks apparently have been drinking the kool-aid

CarolynM3
Posts: 63

Posted:

Thanks JeffT2 for your insights. Very helpful.

PitA
Posts: 1,366

Posted:

I have convinced the Board to write a rule that only prohibits the hover boards from being used in the Common Areas. This person has been seen flying down the halls, in the lobby and almost knocking someone down. I have convinced them that they have no legal right to ban "ownership" of the same. They have agreed with me.

PERFECT

PitA
Posts: 1,366

Posted:

ps. Dihydrogen Oxide is the chemical name for water (H2O)

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,038

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PitA on 05/07/2017 5:16 PM
Dihydrogen Oxide is the chemical name for water (H2O)

It's not really "THE" chemical name for water, there are plenty of others that are just as valid: dihydrogen monoxide (DHMO), hydrogen hydroxide, hydric acid, hydroxic acid, hydroxyl acid, and hydroxilic acid, for example.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CarolynM3 on 05/07/2017 1:11 PM
Admin...please close out this thread on my behalf. Some folks apparently have been drinking the kool-aid

They don't really do that sort of thing here. You get what you pay for, and if you don't like a thread, don't look at it.

PitA
Posts: 1,366

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DouglasK1 on 05/07/2017 7:22 PM

Posted By PitA on 05/07/2017 5:16 PM
Dihydrogen Oxide is the chemical name for water (H2O)

You are correct. I aim for brevity. Good 'gotcha' on me.

Once upon a time, in a hospital maintenance setting far far ago:

A 'Baine Marie' sink/fridge/range unit installed in a retrofitted 'nurses lounge' area of the recovery room never (apparently) had hot water for 8+ years.

When it had to be 'opened up' to fix a cold water drip my partner and I discovered that the hot angle stop had never been opened.

After repairs were made I hung the following sign over the sink:
"CAUTION ~ HOT DIHYDROGEN OXIDE"

The following AM I was called into the Superintendent of Building and Grounds' office for a lecture on safety and lockout procedure. A very STRONG lecture.

He subsequently resigned, as did the college degreed 'charge nurse' who filed the complaint.

PLEASE STOP LAUGHING

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PitA on 05/08/2017 6:13 AM

Posted By DouglasK1 on 05/07/2017 7:22 PM

After repairs were made I hung the following sign over the sink:
"CAUTION ~ HOT DIHYDROGEN OXIDE"

The following AM I was called into the Superintendent of Building and Grounds' office for a lecture on safety and lockout procedure. A very STRONG lecture.

He subsequently resigned, as did the college degreed 'charge nurse' who filed the complaint.

Once a PITA, always a PITA

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PitA on 05/08/2017 6:13 AM

After repairs were made I hung the following sign over the sink:
"CAUTION ~ HOT DIHYDROGEN OXIDE"

The following AM I was called into the Superintendent of Building and Grounds' office for a lecture on safety and lockout procedure. A very STRONG lecture.

He subsequently resigned, as did the college degreed 'charge nurse' who filed the complaint.

PLEASE STOP LAUGHING

Here's what I meant

Once a PITA, always a PITA.

Ha ha

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,519

Posted:

Our HOA boards have enforced this strictly in our high rise condo setting. A rabbi carries his hover board off the premises to ride to his congregation on the sabbath.

"The use of skateboards, scooters, bicycles, rollerblades or similar devices is not allowed in any common areas including the [3 levels underground] garage."

We think "similar devices" covers any new recreational items.

PitA
Posts: 1,366

Posted:

However, they may still be OWNED and STORED inside the units.

As has been repeatedly stated.

The HOA is not the 'nanny of the world'.

That job is reserved for Congress.

..... and Judge Judy

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 896

Posted:

A COA can ban the storage or use of hazardous items.

A COA cannot ban 'ownership' of items.

A hoverboard that is subject to recall (for risk of fire) and has not been returned to the seller (for repair, replacement, or refund) is hazardous and can be banned.

A COA has ample authority to ban such items.

Many condominiums have banned such items.

Even Judge Judy would uphold this.

Reducing fire risk from known hazards is proper, obvious...

not responding to known risks is irresponsible. In some cases a breach of duty.

It goes well beyond mere 'nanny issues.'

Many (most) condos already have general statements to cover this and probably do not need additional rules.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,519

Posted:

My downtown high rise HOA is surrounded by dozens of others. None that I know of have banned hover boards inside of condo units. Hover boards are fairly popular here as the topography is perfect for them for going to work.

The average resident in my zip code is a 40 y.o. male and that's who I see around the 'hood.

PitA
Posts: 1,366

Posted:

A COA has ample authority to ban such items.

I am sure that Judge Judy will IMMEDIATELY sent the hoverboard inspection police.

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 896

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PitA on 05/09/2017 1:03 PM

A COA has ample authority to ban such items.

I am sure that Judge Judy will IMMEDIATELY sent the hoverboard inspection police.

I quite agree.

PitA
Posts: 1,366

Posted:

Awwwwww, shuuuucks.

You spoiled all the fun by AGREEING.

GenoS
Posts: 4,262

Posted:

"They don't keep me here 'cause I'm gorgeous."

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