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JohnM81 (California)
Posts: 3
Posted:
In my HOA fencing was owned and maintained by the property owner. When a new President came onto the Board he seemed intent on spending all the money
in the reserve. We all had wooden fencing and many did not maintain it so some looked pretty bad. The President held multiple votes in order to
be able to have the HOA take over the fencing so he could buy all new fencing. He was successful on the latest vote over a year ago.
Was this legal? I live in California. Also in that last vote from homeowners, he had stated that dues would need to be raised $10 for 1 year and
that fencing would go back to homeowners once it was installed. Instead dues are now 20% higher and have not gone back down after the year. We also
had to pay a special assessment of $500 since he ran out of money. And fencing is not reverting back to the homeowners.

I said he seemed intent on spending all the money because until he was finally successful with the fencing vote, he would spend money on things
such as chopping down all the trees surrounding the community and in the common areas, and paying someone to replace them. He would say the trees
were diseased, that the new trees are prettier and better. Literally hundreds of 15 yr old trees. He would always say he had a friend who could
do it cheaper. His words. So his "friends" are our new gardeners, who also chopped down all those trees and maintain the common area. His "friends"
installed the new fencing, not a reliable established professinal company. He constantly lies to homeowners in order to get his way, and for some
reason they follow along??? Tho now many are pissed at him.

There is more, but was it legal for the association to take over private fencing on our own property, not common area? if the majority voted on it.
And is there any governmental agency that can help on things he arbitrarily does in spending all the money? This is in California.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
To determine if such a vote was legal, you will need to identify the document that was amended to make this happen, the procedures used for the vote, a copy of the previous unattended document and take all of this to an attorney to ask if everything was legally done.

The question is, where is the rest of the Board?

Decisions are rarely made by one individual. They are made by majority vote of the Board.

Have you asked your Board for copies of the contract to see if the price are less expensive?
Have you attended Board meetings and asked who is bidding on various jobs?
Have you volunteered to serve on a committee to obtain bids for various jobs?
JohnM81 (California)
Posts: 3
Posted:
The 2 other Board members are friends of his and always go along with him.
I am one of the few that actually attends the Board meetings. Last meeting I
was the only homeowner to show up. The previous meeting I was 1 of about 6 that
showed up. This is in a community of 85 homes.

When fencing was going up I asked the Board and the representative for the
management company for copies of the checks written to the fencing company, they
refused and said I could see it in the year end documents the management company
sends out.

So it is possible for the HOA to vote and take over private property?
And there are no goverment agencies that I can possibly contact and get answers
from?
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnM81 on 05/02/2017 12:57 AM
And there are no goverment agencies that I can possibly contact and get answers from?

Some states do have ombudsmen or another office to help with association issues, but most states don't have any agency that acts as "HOA Police". I'm not sure about CA.

The covenants that form the association are a contract, so for the most part the issues are handled as contract disputes. This means your ultimate form of enforcement is to sue in civil court.

Another option would be to get new board members voted in to replace the president and his cronies, but it sounds like apathy could make this difficult. If most owners are happy enough with the current board, you could be stuck with them. That's one of the problems with democracy, those other idiots keep electing people I don't agree with.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
John, as you posted "many did not maintain it so some looked pretty bad. The President held multiple votes in order to be able to have the HOA take over the fencing so he could buy all new fencing. He was successful on the latest vote over a year ago."

FYI, HOA funds are used for maintaining and replacing perimeter fencing for many HOAs in Colorado. This is justified because a uniform, well maintained appearance of perimeter fencing affects all property values in a community.

It is difficult to believe that the President did all these things; including selecting contractors and spending funds without prior approval of the Board. Since you are attending Board meeting, are you aware of the decisions made by the Board as to what projects to fund and the number of bids solicited for each Board approved project?

If the President, or the Board, made improper or bad decisions than I suggest the most effective way to correct these problems is through a special members meeting for the purpose of removing those Board members who are not acting in the community's best interest.

Regarding finances, I believe a special assessment is seldom, if ever, necessary when a community is properly managed. And when the Board deems a special assessment to be necessary, doesn't it first have to be approved by a percentage of all homeowners (often 2/3 of every unit owner)?

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
UNLESS I am badly mistaken, the Board DOES NOT have the authority to do what they did. Bylaws may, MAYBE be changed with a vote of the Board, RARELY. But, the CCRs, NO WAY IN HELL!
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
So your complaining that the fences got fixed up and now are in better condition? Do you think that would ever happen if they were left to each individual to do? By the time one got it fixed another one would be bad shape.

The decision to do this project had to be the majority of owners. The majority had to agree to have the assessment and to give the green light to the project. Even if it was their property they decided as a group that putting ALL their money together to address the issues was the best option. Would you rather pay for the whole or contribute to a part?

That is how HOA's work. The HOA is to collect from ALL it's members the money it takes to run/maintain it. So if the majority of owners were tired of seeing bad fences, then they could vote to agree to take on the project amongst themselves.

In our HOA the owners do own the fences. We just approve them or tell them to fix it. The options to fixing it is that they do it themselves. The 2nd option is that the HOA will do it, but send them the bill. If the do not pay that bill, then the HOA can lien for that money.

So I don't think the HOA did anything wrong. It's just someone decided it was to take time to take the reigns and reign the place into being representable.

Former HOA President
NigelB (Texas)
Posts: 254
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnM81 on 05/01/2017 6:48 PM
In my HOA fencing was owned and maintained by the property owner. When a new President came onto the Board he seemed intent on spending all the money
in the reserve. We all had wooden fencing and many did not maintain it so some looked pretty bad. The President held multiple votes in order to
be able to have the HOA take over the fencing so he could buy all new fencing. He was successful on the latest vote over a year ago.
Was this legal? I live in California. Also in that last vote from homeowners, he had stated that dues would need to be raised $10 for 1 year and
that fencing would go back to homeowners once it was installed. Instead dues are now 20% higher and have not gone back down after the year. We also
had to pay a special assessment of $500 since he ran out of money. And fencing is not reverting back to the homeowners.

Unless the fences were HOA property as there are some associations that own and maintain the perimeter fencing, it doesn't matter how many votes were taken. The HOA cannot take private property and then spend HOA money to maintain it. It doesn't matter what the fencing looked like or what the majority of the community thought. The appropriate manner of dealing with private fences that are in need of maintenance is through whatever ACC or Deed Restriction authority the association has. Letters to the owner, and eventually legal action to enforce the ACC requirements or deed restrictions. I wouldn't even think that the HOA has a right to enter the property or to fix the fence even if the homeowner refuses.

Quote:
Posted By JohnM81 on 05/01/2017 6:48 PM
I said he seemed intent on spending all the money because until he was finally successful with the fencing vote, he would spend money on things such as chopping down all the trees surrounding the community and in the common areas, and paying someone to replace them. He would say the trees
were diseased, that the new trees are prettier and better. Literally hundreds of 15 yr old trees. He would always say he had a friend who could do it cheaper. His words. So his "friends" are our new gardeners, who also chopped down all those trees and maintain the common area. His "friends" installed the new fencing, not a reliable established professinal company. He constantly lies to homeowners in order to get his way, and for some reason they follow along??? Tho now many are pissed at him.

There is more, but was it legal for the association to take over private fencing on our own property, not common area? if the majority voted on it.
And is there any governmental agency that can help on things he arbitrarily does in spending all the money? This is in California.

One would expect that if indeed the trees were diseased a competent arborist or landscaping company would have provided that information to the HOA in writing. But where are the rest of the board, what kind of procedures do they have in effect for the solicitation of bids for work that needs to be done.

Unless there is some evidence of wrongdoing - your best bet is to attend board meetings with your fellow members, ask questions, and if what you receive is unsatisfactory, take appropriate action to replace the board either at the next directors election or by using the procedures specified in your governing documents.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerB on 05/02/2017 8:26 AM

FYI, HOA funds are used for maintaining and replacing perimeter fencing for many HOAs in Colorado. This is justified because a uniform, well maintained appearance of perimeter fencing affects all property values in a community.

Only if the HOA owns the property (a.k.a. Common Area) or if the HOA has an obligation per their CCR's to maintain and improve. Otherwise in CO the HOA funds cannot be used for such purpose.

In my last development while the Developer was required along the main road and few other areas to fence ... the fence was purposely placed on the Owner's lots and in future was Owner's obligation to maintain and improve as needed. There was nothing in CCR's noting that the HOA was responsible for any perimeter fencing originally supplied by the developer. Some owners who purchased a lot / home essentially received a perk of one side fenced.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NigelB on 05/02/2017 7:37 PM

Unless the fences were HOA property as there are some associations that own and maintain the perimeter fencing, it doesn't matter how many votes were taken. The HOA cannot take private property and then spend HOA money to maintain it. It doesn't matter what the fencing looked like or what the majority of the community thought. The appropriate manner of dealing with private fences that are in need of maintenance is through whatever ACC or Deed Restriction authority the association has. Letters to the owner, and eventually legal action to enforce the ACC requirements or deed restrictions. I wouldn't even think that the HOA has a right to enter the property or to fix the fence even if the homeowner refuses.

Amen ...
JohnM81 (California)
Posts: 3
Posted:
The fencing is not perimeter fencing which is owned and maintained by the HOA. The perimeter fencing is block wall so there is not much
maintenance. The fencing is question is interior fencing surrounding each homeowners property. And is maintained and owned by the property
owner.(or was) And there is a lot of common fencing between homeowners separating their property. For instance I have a neighbor on each side
and the fencing runs on our property line.

It would be hard to replace the Board since most residents lack any interest in being on the Board. The last election the President and his
cronies were re-elected because no one else ran. My wife was on the Board at one time but quit in frustration due to always being outvoted
on things the President wanted done. I've asked people to attend the Board meetings with me to discuss things they are frustrated with, but
many are non-confrontational or believe that nothing will come of it since the Board does what they want. For instance around 2 years ago the President
decided not to enforce any parking rules since he was trying to please people and trying to get people to vote for his fencing. This caused quite
a few problems after awhile with people parking in other's spaces, parking backwards, across driveways. Some running some type of home auto business taking
up all the guest parking. Even 1 broken down van that was taking up a guest parking spot for 6 months. I and several others went to a Board meeting to complain.
They said the Van would be towed that week, and parking enforcement would begin within a month. Of course the Van wasn't towed for 6 more months and parking enforcement
didn't begin again until last month. Since his yard is a mess he has now decided not to enforce any yard maintenance. Last Board meeting I asked him why
the yards are not required to be maintained. He stated he can't enforce people watering since we are in a drought. I told him yes you can, the water website says
we are allowed to water 3 times a week, that's why some of our yards look good and you are letting others have dead or weed filled lawns. He will basically
answer with a lie in order for you to stop questioning him. One day I was in my driveway and overheard my neighbor asking him why parking wasn't being enforced and
he was telling him that the Board agreed not to enforce it for now, that even Maria agreed to this.(My wife who was on the Board at the time) So I went right over
and told him what a lying crap he was, my wife wanted parking enforcement(Tho I must admit my words were a little more aggressive) and I called my wife outside to
confirm his lies. Also when he claimed the trees were diseased and had them cut down, I asked why are all the stumps still in the ground? I've never seen a
tree service just leave all the stumps in the ground. And certainly not if they are all diseased?? Also one additional thing on the fencing, the first house
that the fencing company did looks awful. The fencing got better as more houses were done. That first homeowner told me she was talking to one of the workers and
he said they've never done fencing before. wth? Or as another example of his doing what he wants, when they were marking the curbs for parking spaces I noticed they
went right up to the mailboxes. I told him I had read in the past that there could be no parking within 3 feet of the mailboxes(normally 4 mailboxes on a post) to leave
room for the postal vehicle to drive up to them to put the mail in. He said they don't need to drive up to it, they can get out. Anyways I could go on, but you get
the drift.

For MelissaP1 when the Pres. was trying to get his vote passed I told him, why don't you enforce people fixing their own fences, mine is in good shape because I fix
it when boards break, and I paint it every 2 years. But he seemed more intent on spending all the money and having his "Friends fix it"

For DouglasK1 Many aren't happy with the board, but apathy plays a large part. Also many are non-confrontational. For instance when their personal parking space on the street
was being used by someone, they would complain to say a neighbor like me, but not to the Board and certainly not call a towing company.

For RogerB a special assessment was not voted on.

NigelB and JanetB2 I would agree completely. Tho I am in California so....

Sorry to go on so long, but my main question is. Is there a government agency in CA that oversees any of this that I can call and discuss my concerns with? I've been
googling but can come up with nothng. And it seems from the answers here that getting my own lawyer is the only way? I was hoping not to have to go that route
and am a bit concerned about the expense that will entail. I've only been able to come up with some civil violations such as refusing to provide me with copies
of the expenses as I've requested. Thanks for all your input.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
I don't care what state you are in ... the HOA cannot take your private property per your purchase agreement and with items noted by your Title Insurance and with a vote of members make it "common area property". Anything like that would require each owners personal consent for each of their individual properties ... not an HOA vote (because it is not common area property owned by the HOA and which the HOA has exclusive control.) I am not an attorney, but I would under that circumstance be screaming THEFT at the top of my lungs to anybody and everybody. LOL ... The HOA is going to essentially steal and take over part of other owner's property without their permission and consent ... I don't think so!!!! Your Title Insurance Company might take them on with regards to this issue.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
The government agencies I would contact would be both your local Attorney General AND your State Attorney General. YEP ... I would scream at them THEFT of property!

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