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JohnM79 (New Hampshire)
Posts: 23
Posted:
We have our annual meeting in a few weeks at our complex in New Hampshire. Many owners give their proxy to board members or other owners. This year, the meeting will probably be quite contentious and there are many owners seeking a seat on the board. The board recently sent the proxy which list the names of the seven board members to give your proxy by checking a box. There are a total of 104 owners. There is then a line at the bottom if you want to write someone else's name. Previously, the proxy only had a blank line which is fair. Board members' names were never typed on the form.

Five of the board members are running for re-election. It certainly appears that they are trying to control the vote and get re-elected by having other owners give them their proxy.

I believe this form is extremely discriminatory to other owners seeking election since their names are not listed on the proxy. This form says selcted one with the board members' name in "caps" then a blank line. It appears that the Board is involved in dirty politics and is self dealing. They claim that the form is legal per the Association's attorney. I strongly disagree as do others. What is your opinion?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
I have never heard that happen before. God forbid.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Listing candidates on the ballot would not be unusual. Were other owners given the opportunity to nominate or get on the proxy before they were distributed?

Do your governing documents (by-laws, covenants) say anything about a nominating committee or any procedures for how the elections are be be held. Have you checked NH law regarding HOA elections? If no laws or procedures from your docs are being broken, then the process is probably legal, if not ethical.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Generally, proxies are directives, not ballots. They may be worded in such a fashion that might give authority to a specific officer to vote the way that officer see fits. Sometimes it is used to just establish quorum.

I don't like proxies, never have and where possible have fought to remove them. They can and have been abused.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
The style of proxy your board is using is similar to what for-profit corporate America uses. I agree it is an effort for the present board to maintain control. While what the board is doing is legal, I would be unhappy. You have to hit the pavement and have people call members, to persuade them not to give their proxy to the incumbents.

The best run HOA election I have seen in my 20 years had online voting. Voting turnout was over 50% in a community of around 150 condo units, much higher than in previous years. For next year, lobby the board to use someone like https://www.theinspectorsofelection.com/start.htm
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:

Please state again: How many open slots are there for election? How many candidates? What is the total number on your Board?

Someone said you & those who agree with you need to campaign like crazy; spend $$, on mailers, etc. Do it! Lots of work, but maybe well worth it.

We don't use proxys and I know nothing about them. If someone assigns their proxy to a director, is that irrevocable??
JohnM79 (New Hampshire)
Posts: 23
Posted:
There are seven board seats. The candidates that have submitted their names were not placed on the proxy form to accept proxies. The current board members have their name on the board and five are seeking reelection.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Sorry to be so dense, JohnM. You're saying all seven board seats are up for (re)election???? Are term,s just for one year? In other s words, why are all 7 seats up for grabs??
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
It sounds like the board is trying to give the impression that the ONLY persons to whom a proxy may be given are the existing board members. Shady and underhanded, yes, but in all likelihood not illegal. One way to counter this is to circulate your own proxies with your name (or the names of other owners in your corner) listed as the person to whom the proxy is to be given.

If an owner submits more than one proxy the one with the latest date will supersede all earlier ones.

Check your governing docs and state law to be sure, but the use of proxies are fairly uniform from state to state.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I love proxies. Yes they can be be misused and often are but they are a valuable tool to aid in winning an election.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 05/02/2017 4:05 AM
I love proxies.

We'd never have a quorum without them.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks for answering my earlier question, Geno. Voters may assign (right word?) more than one proxy and the latest date f gets tabulated with the ballots.

Now, JohnM, may voters in NH HOAs mail ballots in? Or is attendance required at the annual meeting?

In CA, mail-in (absentee) ballots are legal in HOAs. So....while our Bylaws permit proxies, no one uses them anymore since absentee ballots counts towards quorum. In our HOA of about 200 condos, 25% is required for quorum for directors elections. We always get get 90 - 110 ballots, with absentee ballots being by far the most.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 05/02/2017 8:28 AM
Thanks for answering my earlier question, Geno. Voters may assign (right word?) more than one proxy and the latest date f gets tabulated with the ballots.

Now, JohnM, may voters in NH HOAs mail ballots in? Or is attendance required at the annual meeting?

In CA, mail-in (absentee) ballots are legal in HOAs. So....while our Bylaws permit proxies, no one uses them anymore since absentee ballots counts towards quorum. In our HOA of about 200 condos, 25% is required for quorum for directors elections. We always get get 90 - 110 ballots, with absentee ballots being by far the most.

If your association allows proxies, does your association provide them at election time?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
In California, for example, online voting is not allowed, yet?

In California, all voting for directors and other things, is done by secret ballot, not absentee ballot. It is a two envelope system done if you mailed your ballot, show up at the meeting and voted, or exchanged your proxies for secret ballots.

In California, whether municipal, state or federal, there actually is an absentee ballot system, DIFFERENT from the ballot you fill out at a polling place.
JohnM79 (New Hampshire)
Posts: 23
Posted:
The seats are one year terms.

Per NH Condo Act, proxies must have a control # and the original has to be signed and returned. There are no absentee ballots.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnM79 on 05/03/2017 11:22 AM
The seats are one year terms.

Per NH Condo Act, proxies must have a control # and the original has to be signed and returned. There are no absentee ballots.

Are you meaning a ballot must have a control number and returned? Never heard of a proxy having a control number. Are you confusing the two?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 05/03/2017 2:41 PM
Posted By JohnM79 on 05/03/2017 11:22 AM
The seats are one year terms.

Per NH Condo Act, proxies must have a control # and the original has to be signed and returned. There are no absentee ballots.


Are you meaning a ballot must have a control number and returned? Never heard of a proxy having a control number. Are you confusing the two?

According to NH Condo Act, the answer is yes, proxies delivered by the BOD must contain a control number.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
We use proxies – happily, we’ve never had an issue unless we didn’t get enough of them and homeowners at the meeting to make the quorum. Our proxy is a multi-tasker – you can designate someone to show up and vote on your behalf (we use them for Board elections only), designate the Board president to vote on your behalf, state the proxy is only to be used to establish quorum – and you can write in your name or someone else you’d like to nominate for a spot on the board.

At the meeting, we establish quorum first and then hash out the election. If you change your mind and show up at the meeting, the proxy is canceled and you cast your vote as usual (assuming you’re current with all assessments, of course).

Did you ask the board to revise the proxy where it can list EVERYONE running, as well as a blank line to write in a candidate if desired? If so, what did they say? If you think these folks are trying to manipulate the board, I would encourage you to talk to everyone and encourage them to ATTEND the meeting so they can cast a vote in person – it’s one thing to fiddle with proxies, but when you have a bunch of people actually attending and expressing themselves, it can be considerably different.

If people must use a proxy, read it carefully and make sure everyone understands exactly what it’ll do if they fill it out – as well as review it before turning it in.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I guess what is confusing me, control numbers aside, typically the latest proxy is the valid one.

BOD sends out a numbered proxy and it is returned by say owner John Doe dated 12/01. Now come voting time I show up with a proxy dated 12/15 from John Doe. I say my proxy, numbered or not, rules.

What am I missing here?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 05/04/2017 5:08 PM
I guess what is confusing me, control numbers aside, typically the latest proxy is the valid one.

BOD sends out a numbered proxy and it is returned by say owner John Doe dated 12/01. Now come voting time I show up with a proxy dated 12/15 from John Doe. I say my proxy, numbered or not, rules.

What am I missing here?

The control number
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 05/04/2017 5:20 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 05/04/2017 5:08 PM
I guess what is confusing me, control numbers aside, typically the latest proxy is the valid one.

BOD sends out a numbered proxy and it is returned by say owner John Doe dated 12/01. Now come voting time I show up with a proxy dated 12/15 from John Doe. I say my proxy, numbered or not, rules.

What am I missing here?


The control number

Can my later dated proxy use the control number? If so, not an issue. If not then I have an issue.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
If you live(d) in NH, you would have an issue.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
NH Condo Act

IV. (a) The votes appertaining to any unit may be cast pursuant to a proxy or proxies duly executed by or on behalf of the unit owner, or, in cases where the unit owner is more than one person, by or on behalf of all such persons. A person may not cast undirected proxies representing more than 10 percent of the votes in the association. The proxy or proxies shall list the name of the person who is to vote. No such proxy shall be revocable except by actual notice to the person presiding over the meeting, by the unit owner or by any of such persons, that it be revoked. Any proxy shall be void if it is not dated or if it purports to be revocable without the required notice. The proxy of any person shall be void if not signed by a person having authority, at the time of the execution thereof, to execute deeds on behalf of that person. Any proxy shall terminate automatically upon the adjournment of the first meeting held on or after the date of that proxy. The board of directors shall deliver to the unit owners, together with their notice of meeting and agenda, proxy forms bearing a control number which the board of directors shall correlate to the list of all unit owners then entitled to vote. At the noticed meeting, the board of directors shall recover all proxies and compare them to the control list maintained for that purpose. Any proxies which are on a form other than that provided by the board of directors or which do not correlate with the control list maintained by the board of directors shall be disregarded for purposes of determining whether a quorum was present at the meeting and for purposes of casting any vote at that meeting; provided, however, this paragraph shall not apply if the condominium is comprised of time sharing interests.
(b) The board of directors shall retain all proxies delivered to the board of directors and all independent written confirmation of any such proxies for inspection by the unit owners for a period of not less than 3 years from the date of the unit owners' association meeting.
V. If 50 percent or more of the votes in the unit owners' association appertain to 25 percent or less of the units, then in any case where a majority vote is required by the condominium instruments or by this chapter, the requirement for such a majority shall be deemed to include, in addition to the specified majority of the votes, assent by the unit owners of a like majority of the units.
VI. If more than 50 percent of the votes are acquired by a single person after developer control is terminated, a 2/3 majority shall be required to change bylaws, budgets, and any contracted property management

Personally I have would have issues with the above bold. I do agree a person showing up and revoke the proxy is fine. My issue is I say proxies can be revoked with a later dated proxy. That said many have issues with how we do it in SC so to each their own.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
It is what it is, obviously, but there are a number of things in that law that would be illegal in Florida if an association tried to impose them on its members. To each state its own, I guess.

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