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TilestonV (Massachusetts)
Posts: 7
Posted:
I live on the 3rd floor of a 3-unit condo. There is a crawl space (I wouldn't call it an attic) that only I have access to. It is not insulated, which is a big problem for me in the winter. I'd like to add insulation.

I've checked my Unit Deed and my Master and there's nothing that indicates if my crawl space is my responsibility or the HOA's. The floor plans don't even include it.

The deed basically says I'm responsible for upkeep of my (walls-in) Unit and my Exclusive and Limited common areas...but the deed fully spells out what all those areas are, and the crawl space isn't mentioned. It also lists what common areas ARE the HOA's responsibility, and it's not included there either.

Are crawl spaces typically considered part of the roof (which IS common), or since I'm the only one with access to it, is it considered "mine"?

5. Common Areas and Facilities: The Common Areas and Facilities of the
Condominium consist of:

(a) Each Unit shall have
as an appurtenant right the exclusive use of any portion ofthe land ofthe Common Areas and
Facilities which is shown as an "exclusive use common area", "exclusive common area" or
"exclusive use area" on the Site Plan or As Built Plan. Such exclusive use areas shall be subject to
all easements, restrictions and reservations of record, to the rights of the Trustees to maintain water, sewer, storm, electric, telephone, gas, cable or other utilities of every type, nature and description whether in use now or in the future above, on or below the surface of the exclusive use area
(b) The yards, entranceways, lawns, walkways, and other improved or unimproved
areas not within the Units, and all exterior railings, walls, steps, lighting fixtures and plants.
(c) All areas of the building comprising the Condominiwn and all facilities,
installations and improvements therein which are not within the boundaries of the Units as defined
in this Master Deed and without limiting the generality of the foregoing:

(i) The foundations, structural columns and elements, studs, supports, bearns,
girders, roof, chimneys and those portions of the exterior walls, common walls, party walls, floors and ceilings which are not a part of the Unit.

(ii) All conduits, ducts, pipes, plwnbing, water meters, wiring, electric meters,
and other facilities for the furnishing of utility services which are contained in portions of the building contributing to the structure or support thereof, and all such facilities contained within any Unit which serve parts of the Condominium other than (or in addition to) the Unit within which such facilities are contained, together with an easement of access thereto in favor ofthe Trustees of Tiles ton Village Condominium Trust for maintenance, repair and replacement of the like; all other apparatus and installations existing in the building for common use or necessary or convenient to the existence, maintenance or safety of the building.

The storage areas in the basement and covered hallway are in the Common
Areas but are designated as exclusive use areas to particular units as shown
on the As-Built Plan. These areas shall be maintained by the Unit Owner
having exclusive use of that area. The deck that is a Common Area
designated to the exclusive use of Unit 3 shall be maintained by the owner of
Unit 3 from the deck sub-floor and related sub-floor platform structural
integrity and including the upper surface of the decking.

Landscaped areas, driveways and exclusive use parking areas, shall be
maintained and plowed for snow as a common expense of the
Condominium.
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SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
It looks to me that this would be your responsibility since you're the only one with access to it. You might also want to run this by your attorney. If it wasn't in the floor plan, it may be that the original owner put it in for whatever reason, and thus it would be your responsibility. Or the builder put it in - if they're still around, you can ask them as well.

Since there are only 3 units, did you ask your neighbors or the previous owner of the unit? If so, what was the response?


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
RogerD5 (Nevada)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Technically is this a attic? Your plan shows a hip roof. If this is the area and you have access,i would think you could add insulation batting. Have you asked the board? Some HOA's require notification of any construction,but this seems minor,except for any safety issues,if any.
TilestonV (Massachusetts)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Unfortunately we're all about 3 people away from the original builder and owners. The last 2 owners have pretty much washed their hands of the place and have in general been unresponsive in regards to other ambiguous questions (there was a lot of mismanagement and drama that I was unaware I stumbled into despite my due diligence upon purchasing).

The only neighbors I could ask are elderly and don't understand really anything. But they're broke so I assume they'd tell me it was my responsibility, haha.

Honestly I'm assuming it's probably mine, I just want to dot Ts cross Is, etc.
TilestonV (Massachusetts)
Posts: 7
Posted:
I don't think it is an attic. You can't even stand up in it. There's just enough head space for an HVAC.

Technically *I* am the board (one unit is completely disinterested in anything unless they have to pay; and the other owner just bought). I'm assuming it's my responsibility, I just want to make sure I do everything on the up and up.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TilestonV on 04/26/2017 9:08 AM

5. Common Areas and Facilities: The Common Areas and Facilities of the
Condominium consist of: ....

(c) All areas of the building comprising the Condominiwn and all facilities,
installations and improvements therein which are not within the boundaries of the Units as defined
in this Master Deed and without limiting the generality of the foregoing:

It is a common area by virtue of 5 (c). It is not within your unit, so it is common area. This is typical for condominiums.

It is an attic and a crawl space. (by ordinary definitions)

Your association has no obligation to add insulation, especially since it only benefits your unit. In such a small association, I would get some estimates and install the insulation. Make sure you get a permit and conform the standards to prevent condensation damage. Your electric/gas company may have a rebate program.
MichelleK5 (New York)
Posts: 161
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeffT2 on 04/26/2017 3:31 PM
Posted By TilestonV on 04/26/2017 9:08 AM

5. Common Areas and Facilities: The Common Areas and Facilities of the
Condominium consist of: ....

(c) All areas of the building comprising the Condominiwn and all facilities,
installations and improvements therein which are not within the boundaries of the Units as defined
in this Master Deed and without limiting the generality of the foregoing:


It is a common area by virtue of 5 (c). It is not within your unit, so it is common area. This is typical for condominiums.

It is an attic and a crawl space. (by ordinary definitions)

Your association has no obligation to add insulation, especially since it only benefits your unit. In such a small association, I would get some estimates and install the insulation. Make sure you get a permit and conform the standards to prevent condensation damage. Your electric/gas company may have a rebate program.

An HOA has an obligation to make sure the common areas do not affect any individual owners property in a negative manner.

Considering where the OP lives, his heating bills will go through the roof if there's no insulation in that crawl space.

I am wondering why it's there though? My parents have a crawl space in their condo too but it's to get the HVAC system for the units. Their condo is responsible
for it's upkeep.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
How about we simplify ... Ask your HOA BOD and if they are not sure they can ask their HOA Attorney.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Tile has a problem in older areas where many older homes were turned into 2 or 3 Condo units and they be a cluster kiss with so few members, especially when all do not agree/contribute.

I have a nephew in Boston that specializes in buying older homes and converting them to 2-3 condo buildings. He knows the problem well.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Not that it may or may not make a difference, is there a firewall in the attic that separates the units? That may be
an indication that the crawl space is a common area.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
LetA

I believe the OP is in a converted triple decker (3 levels, one unit/apartment per level) and as he is the upper unit, he has the only access to the attic. Quite common in older cities.

You are thinking side by side units where there would be a firewall between them.

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