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AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
My HOA is self-managed, with three employees. I was elected to the board in January at the Annual Meeting. The Board has three directors. Late last week the HOA business manager emailed the board that she would be attending the annual CAI conference in early May. She said that the air fare and registration ($649) had already been paid for by the HOA. The only remaining expense to the HOA is the hotel (about $400). I estimate the total costs are about $1500. The latter does not include the burden to the Association that will happen for the three days the Manager is away. I do not think the business manager is even using her vacation time for this.

The 2017 board never passed a motion to pay for the HOA business manager's attendance at this conference. The business manager contends that the annual budget, ratified by the 2016 board, has a category for "employee training and education," and so she is to be reimbursed. My HOA just imposed a 15% (of the normal annual dues) Special Assessment to pay for infrastructure. The 2017 two-person board majority is saying, no foul, this fell under the 2016 Board approved budget for 2017.

1.
How appropriate is it for the 2016 board to approve the employee's attendance at this conference in May 2017?

2.
If you were a one-person board minority, would you raise this at an open meeting, if only to put light on what happened here? I think this is my only recourse.

3.
Any other suggestions?

It is hard not to go through the looking glass here at my HOA. Many members are appalled at how the HOA pays for what I think may be fairly described as an expensive junket. I appreciate the reality check people here can provide.

DonnaR5
Posts: 162
Posted:
Can you explain who the business managers is? A board member? You say your HOA is self-managed, and I would take that to mean you do not have a hired business manager or management company.
DonnaR5
Posts: 162
Posted:
my own opinion is that just because you have money in a budget line item, that doesn't mean anyone can go spend the money without notice or approval of the board, unless it is a routine expense.

It is a good opportunity to realize that you should have budget worksheets showing specifically what went into the $ amounts on each budget line. If the money was not intended for a manager but for board members, that should be spelled out. If it was intended for local conferences but not for airfare, that also should be spelled out. You had some conscious intention for the money allocated for education, what would be a good use and what wouldn't... Put it in writing.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Hi Donna, the business manager and other employees are not board members. Each employee is issued an end-of-year W-2 for tax purposes. I was told "self-managed" means that the HOA does not contract with an independent company for management but instead hires an individual as an employee to be the business manager or maybe the board as a whole with other volunteers manages the HOA.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
You need to read employment contracts and board minutes to see if this education was approved by the current or a previous board.
If not, then you need to reel in the situation.

1. How appropriate is it for the 2016 board to approve the employee's attendance at this conference in May 2017?

Since attending conferences takes planning, it isn't unreasonable for the previous board to approve something for the following year. The question should be why didn't the new Board know anything about it and what procedures will you put in place to keep a future new board aware of prior board commitments.

2. If you were a one-person board minority, would you raise this at an open meeting, if only to put light on what happened here? I think this is my only recourse.

You should think about what is irking you. The expense or the fact that you were unaware of it.
Then, figure out how you want to address it (i.e. what should be changed).
Then, you need to have a proposed resolution ready to submit for review and consideration.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
I agree with what others have already said. In addition . . .

If the trip occurs, then I suggest the Board impose certain requirements on the Manager to at least provide some type of detailed trip report that indicates (at minimum) details of the conference, what was learned, what is applicable to your association, materials provided during the training (so they may be utilized by Managers and the Board in the future), and any other requirements to ensure that attendance at the conference is a valuable use of their time and the associations money.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I like ND’s suggestion.

As Tim suggested, it may be your previous board discussed this and approved the expense along with the rest of the annual budget – did you talk to any of them about this? If so, what did they say? And yes, you should ask about the expense at the next meeting so you can get some history as to what happened.

There’s nothing wrong with employee education or attending out of state conferences (property managers should keep up on emerging issues so he or she can give the board a heads up on what it may want to think about). If the travel is work related, wouldn’t expect the employee to use his/her personal time off (I'm sure your bass doesn't do this if/when you travel on business). This isn’t necessarily a junket – why not go to the CAI website and take a look at the agenda? You may see something that catches your eye – in which case, I would tell the property manager, I expect a full report, as ND suggested which should include her attending specific sessions the board might be interested in.

Since you are self-managed, I would also expect someone to have a contingency plan for dealing with emergencies while the property manager is gone, so ask about that too. If there isn’t one, that’s what the board and property manager should address immediately, since May is around the corner. You’ll have to go ahead and pay for the hotel for this trip because the other stuff is already paid for and you probably won’t be able to get a refund. While you’re at it, I’m sure she’ll be expecting reimbursement for meals that aren’t part of the conference, so feel free to vote on some sort of per diem for that. I suggest you base it on the cost of living in Orlando – what you pay for dinner in your town may be considerably more or less than what it costs there.

When you begin to prepare next year’s budget, you can revisit employee training and see if there are cheaper ways of getting it done – CAI does have webinars she can watch and there may be a local chapter that holds seminars.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
SheliaH has some good points also!

The government goes through extensive efforts to develop mileage rates, per diem rates (max rates that will be paid for hotels), and meals & incidental expenses rates for just about everywhere in the country.

The work's done for you to determine how much someone may be entitled to when traveling for work-related purposes.

Mileage rates: https://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/100715
Per diem and M&IE: https://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/104877

If meals are provided during the conference, the the M&IE entitlement can be reduced. There's some calculation to help determine that too.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Donna, thanks for the counsel. I may be doing the first draft of the 2018 budget. A proposed breakdown of each line item in the budget sounds entirely appropriate to me. (Granted the 2018 board is not bound by said breakdown. Even each line item is only a guide and not a legal commitment.)

Tim and Shelia, I am in the process of finding out who approved what and when, and who signed the checks. For 1. Tim, your point is well taken (about how planning for such attendance does take time, so I should not begrudge the previous board possibly having approved this. Regarding 2., if the expense were not so high, I would not be so irked that I was not told. As for a resolution, I will have a motion ready. Mostly though the purpose would be to do this in front of members. I believe transparency promotes accountability.

ND and Shelia, regarding a trip report: I agree this would be worthwhile, generally speaking. E.g. I see the CAI Conferences has a one-hour session on the Fair Housing Act and avoiding discrimination claims. My business manager sorely needs education in this area. Unfortunately I find the business manager somewhat lacking in smarts. From discussions with the manager, I feel the education she has had to date on this has had zero effect. Said education includes an enormous legal claim with HUD that cost everyone here the equivalent of a few months of extra assessment. Still, you all are helping to ground me with future managers.

Shelia, fortunately an assistant manager has been undergoing grooming in the last few years. I expect he will be able to handle much of what transpires while the manager is away.

ND, I am not sure I want to offer employees what is typical of say a Fortune 500 company. Not that you are saying this. More that my HOA is a nonprofit. I tend to feel if the person really wants this education, then she or he can dine cheap, paying roughly what they would pay if they were at home. The mileage rate is helpful. Thank you.

Thanks to all for the reality check.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
You said "I am not sure I want to offer employees what is typical of say a Fortune 500 company. Not that you are saying this. More that my HOA is a nonprofit. I tend to feel if the person really wants this education, then she or he can dine cheap, paying roughly what they would pay if they were at home."

Yes, the association is a non-profit, but it has hired this person to handle the day to day tasks, so why shouldn't they make an investment in the person's knowledge base to ensure he or she is better equipped to work more efficiently - especially since that will ultimately benefit you and your neighbors? It's what for-profit companies and government agencies do - why do you think some thrive and others don't? In light of your previous posts about your community and that it's self-managed, all of you could use some initial and continuing education to keep up with current trends and new approaches.

I understand and agree it's important to control costs, but I suspect some of your concern is attending this conference might be wasted on a property manager whose job performance or lack thereof cost the association a lot of money. She may have played a role, but remember the property manager gets his/her direction from the Board, so they're just as responsible as she is. If you and your colleagues aren't happy with this property manager, consider setting up some sort of improvement plan for her (you already have $1500 invested because of the conference) and then evaluate her this time next year to see if there's improvement. If not, you can consider getting rid of her and promoting the assistant. Even then, you should still want to invest in some training for him, and as you know, there are ways to do that without a trip to the CAI national conference.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Augustin,

Many years ago I worked for the community college district for a time and then several years after that for state government. In both entities I found that the number one management perk was traveling to various seminars at employer expense. I never once detected any benefit to the employer.

That said, I would give your manager the benefit of the doubt and presume that the arrangements she made with the previous board were done in good faith. Wish her well.

At the next board meeting, however, you should propose putting the brakes on these kinds of trips permanently.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Thank you, LarryB13. I agree with all your points. Per your suggestions, I have asked that employee education be put on the next meeting's agenda. If all this accomplishes is giving the members the facts of this episode, without editorializing, so that members know they are not getting what two of the three directors promised during their campaigns, then I will feel fine about the situation. Much obliged, Larry.

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