NYC Coop - Lowered ceiling in common areas create moving & damage issues

I own and live in a New York City Cooperative apartment.

The building has gone through extensive renovation of the hallways in our 21 story building.

The ceilings outside each elevator and in an extended area of the hallways has been lowered approximately 5 inches.

A number of owners have furniture already in their apartment (before the renovation) that was a tight fit during the move in due to the height of the pieces.

After lowering common area ceilings, it will be impossible to move out this large furniture without causing damage to the newly installed ceiling.

Should current owners be 'grandfathered' in to a building-wide legal 'contract' that absolves them from paying for
damage that occurs to the newly installed structures during a move out?

Hi DC6 ... Welcome to the Forum

I have questions:

1. When the ceilings were lowered did it meet your local building code requirements and was a building permit obtained to lower?

2. Was this something that the membership was aware of the HOA doing via any meetings?

The most likely reason for the lowered ceiling height would be a retrofit of an automatic fire suppression system.

a/k/a 'sprinkler system'

As the poster of this subject, I'll comment on the issues this board community presented.

Don’t take this personally, but the cynicism gushes through several remarks.

This bias is an indication of the problem with many boards and their members - board members forget they are in a community of equals. They develop an “us vs. them “attitude.

In my building, it appears that board discussions are seldom prefaced with 'how can an owner be accommodated?'

Please don’t tell me how wonderful and your board are. I am merely making an observation; one with many adherents.

I don’t want to move away from the specifics of the original question, but the answers presented to date deserve comment. My answers should also clear several questions.

So much cynicism! The question was fairly straight forward, or so I thought. There is nothing to read ‘between the lines’, yet -

Mellissa - has me damaging the ceiling; then looking for a scapegoat. Really?
As the post indicates, the furniture is already in the apartment for several years. My concern is with the possible damage caused when other owners and myself, move these large pieces out.

TimB4 – ‘suspects’ the ceilings were lowered to allow for an infrastructure reason. Actually it is purely cosmetic. No plumbing; HVAC, pipes, sprinklers, etc. They will be adding new lighting, hardly a reason for this aspect of the renovation.

And yes, I agree, ‘why go through the expense.’? My thoughts precisely!
And then you ask if I raise this issue “…because you damaged tiles when moving out…” Geeeez.

I am looking to avoid paying for damage to this new obstacle created by the boards’ failure to consider consequences caused by this dropped ceiling.

The owners were not consulted or advised on this aspect of the renovation when models were presented to the community.

The professionals who moved the furniture into my apartment had some difficulty. It was tight, but it fit, without causing damage to the building or the furniture.

The furniture is custom made for the apartment. When designed, all existing aspects of moving it into a New York Apartment were considered – elevator and doorway entrance height and width, interior room entry, placement, etc.

Now the ceilings are a good 5 inches lower in the hallway outside my apartment and outside the elevators.

The furniture is solid wood pieces – wardrobes and bookcases, and cannot be modified without damaging the units.

I don’t want to get into a debate here on the virtues of the board. Someone else can start that topic.

I still have my original question.

While I hope to avoid damaging the new ceiling on move out, is it reasonable to ask that I (and others) be ‘grandfathered’ to an exception to the rules so I am not subjected to charges for damaging an obstacle created after the fact?

I would say no, it is not reasonable. Not to be cynical, but where were you when the proposed changes to the ceiling height were being considered? That would have been the time to express your concerns. You and your neighbors, that is, since you're probably not the only one affected by it.

We have had only a few Owners from NY on this forum. but I believe I recall that NY is a "closed meeting state," i.e., boards can make many decisions behind closed doors. Jon of NY comments less nowadays, but he might check in as he also is a in a multi-story NY HOA. He prefers closed meetings.

But I'm guessing this is not one of the decisions that can be made in secret partly because, also my guess, building permits MAY have been required. Notices might have come in the US mail from "the City," etc.

Back to your question, DC6: I don't think you'd avoid being billed for ceiling damage, but you might ask an attorney knowledgeable in such matters. I don't think it'd cost much.

It'd probably be cheaper to pay for ceiling damage than to hire a crane and bring the pieces out through spacious windows that might be removed for this purpose. There are other similar procedures used--via windows or doors to balconies--all over Europe (and perhaps in the US too) on the lower floors.