Realty signs

Chris, assuming your entrance is a common area the association can create a Rule that there shall be no use of the common area which does not have prior approval of the Board. Then advise all owners that real estate signs and other signs are prohibited from being posted in the common area. The owner needs to inform their real estate broker not to post signs in the common area. You can then remove any such posted signs.

It's common to allow no signs in the common area. The compromise is what you already suggested: Open House signs allowed only on the day of the Open House.

You have to be careful allowing anything else, because Realtor signs get bigger and flashier all the time; also, FSBO signs can look really unattractive as well.

If you allow signs for all For Sale homes, how many signs will end up at your entrances all the time? If you limit it to 5, that will cause conflicts and people won't follow the rule; plus how would you police it? If you did police it, people would simply take down the last guys sign.

I have seen gated communities that place an attractive Homes for Sale brochure area by the gate. The Realtors can place brochures in slots. The one I have seen looks a bit like a brick community mailbox...probably not an option unless you have gates where people stop.

Our CC&Rs state "No real estate signs, or signs of any kind, ..., may be displayed on any Common Area." Due to some major employers pulling out of the area, there are several homes in the neighborhood currently on the market. After some run-ins with agents who claimed they couldn't market the properties at all with that restriction, and some complaints from some of the homeowners who were trying to sell, we tried to work out a compromise and allow a limited number at the entrance during limited times.

Didn't work. We had agents trying to leave them out 24x7 and on every corner leading up to the property. After we started to get complaints from the other homeowners about the sign clutter, we wound up having to go back to strictly enforcing the no-signs at any time rule. Now if any signs (open house, garage sale, etc) are found in any of the common areas, they are removed and either returned to the property in question or placed behind the irrigation pump house near the entrance. When an agent or selling homeowner complains, we just tell them that all they have to do is get 2/3 of all homeowners to agree with them and the rule can be changed.

Chris:

Argument for:

A lot of people buy homes by touring neighborhoods they like, having signage increases the chances of selling a home quicker, which in turn reduces the chance of the price dropping because it has sat on the market for a while.

Argument against:

If unregulated you can get signs of all shapes, colors and locations and it can become an eyesore.

A great compromise is what others have suggested and has been talked about before. Come up with a uniform sign size and only allow them one on the property. If there is an open house as some have said allow open house signage on common areas on the day of the open house. I really think you hurt your home values by not allowing any signage.

Our Rules state that ONLY Real Estate or For Rent signs are allowed. ALL other signs are banned. They can be displayed directly in front of the home for easier viewing or even possibly in the windows. We have many people who often come through our HOA looking for homes.

At one time we had an actual "waiting list" for people to call if a house came up for sale. We've had houses stay ONLY 6 hours on the market before! Most went in 24 hours to about 2 weeks depending on size and condition. So keeping signs up wasn't a problem for us.

MicheleD & Melissa:
Re: allowing realty signs and what the CC&Rs should state.

I have already posted on this thread, but I'll confirm my take on it.
IF you decide to allow Realtor signs at the entrance, what does that actually do for the one looking to buy a home? Not much--it only alerts the person that a home is for sale in that community. It has more negative impact than positive--looks tacky, looks commercial, looks like the realtors are competing against each other (which in a sense they are).

Better to think about 'getting the person's interest' in actually looking for a home; by only posting a 'home for sale' sign, it alerts the buyer to one/many available in the development, and they actually are forced to drive around to find the realtor sign at the house or in the window.

Melissa, one man's garbage is another man's treasure.

I personally don't have anything against realty signs, and if they help and empty home fill up faster, I'm all for it.

However, our original CC&Rs prohibited any signs except for the for sale sign on the lot that is for sale. Our common area cannot contain signs, and that includes the front entrance, rear entrance or side entrances (we have 4 ways to get into our community).

So whether any of us on the board had a problem with them wouldn't matter. The CC&Rs say no so we would have to dissallow them. Even if they were just Open House signs up for a day.

When we amended the siganag CC&R, the residents voted down all versions EXCEPT the one that still dissallowed signs on the common areas. This was even though the board argued that allowing signs there would me we could put up "reminder" signage about neighborhood meetings.

The community voted in an amendment that allowed security signs, political signs (with time restrictions), landscaping "signs" (welcome, Nana's Garden, etc), but no other.

So we still contact the realtors on the signs if they leave them up front and ask them to remove them. If they are up more than 24 hours without being removed, we will take them down and place them behind the stone wall at our signature entrance.

Funny thing is, if we don't get them fast enough, there are some residents who remove them and throw them away.

For some reason, this is a huge issue with our residents.

I will agree with Robert on the political signs, even though we put that in our CC&Rs, we will have to see what develops.

Here is some wording from our local metro government. It's from the signage ordinance:

§ 155.03 PERMITS AND INSPECTION.

1. General. Neither a permit nor an inspection shall be required for the signs covered by the provisions of this section. These exceptions, however, shall not be construed to relieve the owner of the sign from responsibility for its erection and maintenance in a safe manner or from compliance with all other applicable requirements of this and other regulations and codes.



6. Political signs. Any type of sign which refers only to issues or candidates involved in any political or nonpartisan, special, primary, or general election, provided any such sign shall be erected no more than 30 days before and shall be removed within seven days after the election to which the sign pertains and provided such sign is not more than 16 square feet of display surface.



(1999 Lou. Code, § 156.03) (Lou. Ord. No. 93-1980, approved 6-17-1980; Lou. Am. Ord. No. 47-1981, approved 3-19-1981; Lou. Am. Ord. No. 208-1990, approved 8-30-1990; Lou. Ord. No. 229-1992, approved 12-28-1992) Penalty, see § 155.99

Editors Note: Subsection (F) of this section was held unconstitutional in part in Vessels v. City of Louisville, CA No. 93-0512-L(CS). The Memorandum Opinion issued by the U.S. District Court held the placement of political signs 30 days prior to election restriction to be unconstitutional.

Hi Chris:

I'm compliance coordinator for a master-planned community. We have one main road that goes through a substantial portion of the community, and along that road, our major landscape features.

At the intersections along the road, plus at the entrances to our sub-associations, we have 4x4 posts mounted, with mounting hardware, and a "storage cubby" behind, where we have 24 in x 8 in sign, bright yellow background with black lettering: Open House. There are bolts and wing nuts in a tray at the bottom of the storage cubby. When there is an open house, agents are supposed to use the "directional arrow signs" to direct prospective buyers to the open house; at other times, they are not to be mounted on the post, but stored. No "A-frame" signs, temporary directionals, etc. are allowed along the main street.

One of my duties is to pick up signs, on weekdays as well as occasionally on weekends. We collect the A-frame signs, put them in our office, and then I get to call the sales agents during the week and give them till Friday to pick them up, or we throw them away. Whenever we return the signs, I attach a copy of our sign resolution to their sign. Temorary directional signs are thrown away.

J. Patrick Moore

In CA, the issue is avoided by not using the word commercial, in the signage paragraph -
CC 1353.6. (a) The governing documents, including the operating rules, may not prohibit posting or displaying of noncommercial signs, posters, flags, or banners on or in an owner's separate interest, except as required for the protection of public health or safety or if the posting or display would violate a local, state, or federal law.

However, with resect to a PUD, it is allowed -

CC 712. (a) Every provision contained in or otherwise affecting a
grant of a fee interest in, or purchase money security instrument
upon, real property in this state heretofore or hereafter made, which purports to prohibit or restrict the right of the property owner or his or her agent to display or have displayed on the real property, or on real property owned by others with their consent, or both, signs which are reasonably located, in plain view of the public, are of reasonable dimensions and design, and do not adversely affect public safety, including traffic safety, and which advertise the property for sale, lease, or exchange, or advertise directions to the property, by the property owner or his or her agent is void as an unreasonable restraint upon the power of alienation.
(b) This section shall operate retrospectively, as well as
prospectively, to the full extent that it may constitutionally
operate retrospectively.
(c) A sign that conforms to the ordinance adopted in conformity
with Section 713 shall be deemed to be of reasonable dimension and
design pursuant to this section.

713. (a) Notwithstanding any provision of any ordinance, an owner
of real property or his or her agent may display or have displayed on the owner's real property, and on real property owned by others with their consent, signs which are reasonably located, in plain view of the public, are of reasonable dimensions and design, and do not adversely affect public safety, including traffic safety, as
determined by the city, county, or city and county, advertising the
following:
(1) That the property is for sale, lease, or exchange by the owner or his or her agent.
(2) Directions to the property.
(3) The owner's or agent's name.
(4) The owner's or agent's address and telephone number.
(b) Nothing in this section limits any authority which a person or local governmental entity may have to limit or regulate the display
or placement of a sign on a private or public right-of-way.

In CA, your political banner can be up to 225 sq feet!

1353.6.(c) An association may prohibit noncommercial signs and posters
that are more than 9 square feet in size and noncommercial flags or
banners that are more than 15 square feet in size.

Our community is gated, therefore having signs on the individual property is not the answer for real estate agents to market their properties. We do allow "Open House" signs to be used in an area, just inside of the roadway leading into the gates. The signs may go up on Saturdays or Sundays and all are required to be down by 6 p.m. on the day of the open house. If they are not removed, our P.M. will take them down and agents do not get them back. We have no problems with this rule.

Also, our mailboxes have a horizontal bar underneath the mailbox from which agents are allowed to hang a 11-1/2 x 14 inch clear plastic box which holds flyers with information on the house that is for sale. Everyone knows what these boxes contain and agents own them and are responsible to take them down when not in use. We called our County Real Estate group and worked out these details with them and they are very agreeable to their restrictions.