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JR8 (Oregon)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Our president is threatening to call a special meeting to have owners "choose" between her and another director with whom she doesn't get along. She is, I believe, taking this approach because she holds the proxy vote of several offsite owners, none of whom are actively involved in the HOA, and who know nothing of the internal politics of this board. Our bylaws allow an adjournment at such a special meeting, with refiguring a quorum, and once adjourned and refigured, she would easily be successful with a removal coup, because of the number of proxy votes she holds.

I'm wondering if there are any other avenues owners and other directors can take in the face of this situation. We simply won't have enough votes to negate her pulling this off because of the way the bylaws are written. I believe she is well aware of this and thought it through carefully before making the threat.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Did you ask this same question a few weeks ago, JR? If so, can you sum up the replies?
JR8 (Oregon)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Sorry - I should have been more specific. It is the same situation. The new information is that we're clear the president has enough proxy votes (all offsite owners not involved in the HOA) to pull this off. I don't see any way to stop it from happening. I guess I was hoping there was something about the fact that the "win" would happen almost entirely from offsite owners who've cast a proxy to this woman/president, as opposed to people who actually live in the complex. But... perhaps that's just an ideal, as opposed to how the law would work.

Sorry to be redundant.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
She cannot call a meeting to choose between current elected directors. Therefore, is she calling a meeting to remove and replace a director?

I do not see much you can do if she has enough votes. Even though owners do not live on the property they still have votes that can be cast. Have you and others contacted the off site owners yourselves? Potentially they are believing one side of a story because they do not know the other side. It is an option to cut her off at the pass. However, your side of the story needs to be better than the other party and helps if you have lots of proof you can provide.
JR8 (Oregon)
Posts: 25
Posted:
When you say she cannot call a meeting to choose... you're saying (I'm in Oregon) she has to create the agenda item to say specifically that it is to remove a director? I'm not sure that replacing is required.

Is there precedence that makes the 'choosing' part moot? I know she is talking about this as 'choosing' because she is rather dramatic, and it has this air of tragedy that she will 'let the people decide'

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JR8 on 03/23/2017 7:17 PM
When you say she cannot call a meeting to choose... you're saying (I'm in Oregon) she has to create the agenda item to say specifically that it is to remove a director? I'm not sure that replacing is required.

Is there precedence that makes the 'choosing' part moot? I know she is talking about this as 'choosing' because she is rather dramatic, and it has this air of tragedy that she will 'let the people decide'

Replacing is definately required. Both of the current Directors were elected by the membership and your cannot totally disregard what they have put into place without their vote. Is your HOA a Condo or Single Family homes? If you look at this state statute it states: https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/94.640

(6)
(a) Unless otherwise provided in the declaration or bylaws, at a meeting of the owners at which a quorum is present, the owners may remove a director from the board of directors, other than directors appointed by the declarant or individuals who are ex officio directors, with or without cause, by a majority vote of owners who are present and entitled to vote.
(b) Notwithstanding contrary provisions in the declaration or bylaws:
(A) Before a vote to remove a director, owners must give the director whose removal has been proposed an opportunity to be heard at the meeting.
(B) The owners must vote on the removal of each director whose removal is proposed as a separate question.
(C) Removal of a director by owners is effective only if the matter of removal was an item on the agenda and was stated in the notice of the meeting if notice is required under ORS 94.650 (Meetings of lot owners).
(c) A director who is removed by the owners remains a director until a successor is elected by the owners or the vacancy is filled as provided in subsection (7) of this section.

(7)
Unless the declaration or bylaws specifically prescribe a different procedure for filling a vacancy created by the removal of a director by owners, the owners shall fill a vacancy created by the removal of a director by the owners at a meeting of owners. The notice of the meeting must state that filling a vacancy is an item on the agenda.

When this type action is taken the HOA must follow their governing documents and state law. For example if proper notice of the meeting is not given meeting both your CCR's and State Law then the meeting can possibly be deemed illegal.

You need to read you documents and applicable state law (Condo or HOA) and know your rights.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
This section is interesting because unless your Declaration or Bylaws (if you fall under this section of law) provide regulations for removing a director, the below bold text might make a difference. Unless your governing documents allow proxies for removing a director ... it appears the State Law might not.

(a) Unless otherwise provided in the declaration or bylaws, at a meeting of the owners at which a quorum is present, the owners may remove a director from the board of directors, other than directors appointed by the declarant or individuals who are ex officio directors, with or without cause, by a majority vote of owners who are present and entitled to vote.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
If you know who all these uninformed, apathetic offsite owners are who have given a proxy to this Board Member, you could reach out to them and provide necessary information to ensure they are informed about what is going on. Suggest that they do 1 of 2 things:

(1) cancel/nullify the existing proxy (if this is possible) that is held by this Board Member.
(2) sign a new proxy to you or someone else that supersedes the one held by the Board Member.

Either option will take some effort at informing the offsite member as to the reality of what is going on as well as obtain their buy-in to the situation and your ultimate goal.

You could also build buy-in among on-site owners and get them on your "side" to counter any votes from the other "side".
JR8 (Oregon)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 03/23/2017 8:20 PM
This section is interesting because unless your Declaration or Bylaws (if you fall under this section of law) provide regulations for removing a director, the below bold text might make a difference. Unless your governing documents allow proxies for removing a director ... it appears the State Law might not.

(a) Unless otherwise provided in the declaration or bylaws, at a meeting of the owners at which a quorum is present, the owners may remove a director from the board of directors, other than directors appointed by the declarant or individuals who are ex officio directors, with or without cause, by a majority vote of owners who are present and entitled to vote.


Our bylaws specifically address that voting by proxy is legal. This would apply in our case to either the Annual Meeting or a Special Meeting. The other section which allows, absent a quorum, the meeting to adjourn and reconvene with 1/4 of the eligible voters present (we have 60 members) to form a quorum, will allow the needed votes for this president to "win" removal of the other director.

I've never thought about these two rules put together, and am now wondering if they were intentional for some purpose I don't understand.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
That provision is placed in some documents because sometimes due to apathy it is difficult in some instances to obtain quorums. Per your statement:

"The other section which allows, absent a quorum, the meeting to adjourn and reconvene with 1/4 of the eligible voters present (we have 60 members) to form a quorum, will allow the needed votes for this president to "win" removal of the other director. "

If you want to post the exact verbiage we can take a look at it. I would be curious about what you stated that I have in bold above and exactly how it is stated in your docs.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'd like to see the wording, too.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Also, does your documents have a section discussing recalling a director?
JR8 (Oregon)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 03/24/2017 9:02 AM
That provision is placed in some documents because sometimes due to apathy it is difficult in some instances to obtain quorums. Per your statement:

"The other section which allows, absent a quorum, the meeting to adjourn and reconvene with 1/4 of the eligible voters present (we have 60 members) to form a quorum, will allow the needed votes for this president to "win" removal of the other director. "

If you want to post the exact verbiage we can take a look at it. I would be curious about what you stated that I have in bold above and exactly how it is stated in your docs.

If any meeting of unit owners cannot be organized because a quorum is not in attendance, the unit owners who are present either in person or by proxy, may adjourn the meeting from time to time without notice until a quorum shall attend.
JR8 (Oregon)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 03/24/2017 9:17 AM
Also, does your documents have a section discussing recalling a director?

At any annual or special meeting of the unit owners duly called, at which a quorum is present, any one or more of the directors may be removed with or without cause by a majority vote of the unit owners present at such meeting. A successor may then, or at any other annual or special meeting of unit owners, be elected to fill the vacancy thus created for the remainder of the term vacated.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JR8 on 03/24/2017 11:26 AM
Posted By JanetB2 on 03/24/2017 9:02 AM
That provision is placed in some documents because sometimes due to apathy it is difficult in some instances to obtain quorums. Per your statement:

"The other section which allows, absent a quorum, the meeting to adjourn and reconvene with 1/4 of the eligible voters present (we have 60 members) to form a quorum, will allow the needed votes for this president to "win" removal of the other director. "

If you want to post the exact verbiage we can take a look at it. I would be curious about what you stated that I have in bold above and exactly how it is stated in your docs.


If any meeting of unit owners cannot be organized because a quorum is not in attendance, the unit owners who are present either in person or by proxy, may adjourn the meeting from time to time without notice until a quorum shall attend.

You have not stated if you fall under the State Statute or whether you are Condo or Single Family HOA. If I look at this section of law (which not sure you are under) it states: https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/94.650

(2)
(a) Special meetings of the association may be called by the president of the board of directors, by a majority of the board of directors or by the president or secretary upon receipt of a written request of a percentage of owners specified in the bylaws of the association. However, the bylaws may not require a percentage greater than 50 percent or less than 10 percent of the votes of the planned community for the purpose of calling a meeting.

(b) If the bylaws do not specify a percentage of owners that may request the calling of a special meeting, a special meeting shall be called if 30 percent or more of the owners make the request in writing. Notice of the special meeting shall be given as specified in this section.

(c) Business transacted at a special meeting shall be confined to the purposes stated in the notice.

To call a special meeting someone will have to get the required percentage to call a meeting in writing from required percentage of owners. I read it that you cannot just have voting proxies to be able to call a special meeting. It is supposed to be somewhat difficult to do some things in an HOA and the laws do not make it easy in many instances.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JR8 on 03/24/2017 11:27 AM
Posted By JanetB2 on 03/24/2017 9:17 AM
Also, does your documents have a section discussing recalling a director?


At any annual or special meeting of the unit owners duly called, at which a quorum is present, any one or more of the directors may be removed with or without cause by a majority vote of the unit owners present at such meeting. A successor may then, or at any other annual or special meeting of unit owners, be elected to fill the vacancy thus created for the remainder of the term vacated.

As noted in statutes above ... if the director is removed unless replaced immediately if you fall under this section it states:

(c) A director who is removed by the owners remains a director until a successor is elected by the owners or the vacancy is filled as provided in subsection (7) of this section.

That could potentially override the bold statement above in your documents.
JR8 (Oregon)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 03/24/2017 11:57 AM
Posted By JR8 on 03/24/2017 11:26 AM
Posted By JanetB2 on 03/24/2017 9:02 AM
That provision is placed in some documents because sometimes due to apathy it is difficult in some instances to obtain quorums. Per your statement:

"The other section which allows, absent a quorum, the meeting to adjourn and reconvene with 1/4 of the eligible voters present (we have 60 members) to form a quorum, will allow the needed votes for this president to "win" removal of the other director. "

If you want to post the exact verbiage we can take a look at it. I would be curious about what you stated that I have in bold above and exactly how it is stated in your docs.


If any meeting of unit owners cannot be organized because a quorum is not in attendance, the unit owners who are present either in person or by proxy, may adjourn the meeting from time to time without notice until a quorum shall attend.


You have not stated if you fall under the State Statute or whether you are Condo or Single Family HOA. If I look at this section of law (which not sure you are under) it states: https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/94.650

(2)
(a) Special meetings of the association may be called by the president of the board of directors, by a majority of the board of directors or by the president or secretary upon receipt of a written request of a percentage of owners specified in the bylaws of the association. However, the bylaws may not require a percentage greater than 50 percent or less than 10 percent of the votes of the planned community for the purpose of calling a meeting.

(b) If the bylaws do not specify a percentage of owners that may request the calling of a special meeting, a special meeting shall be called if 30 percent or more of the owners make the request in writing. Notice of the special meeting shall be given as specified in this section.

(c) Business transacted at a special meeting shall be confined to the purposes stated in the notice.

To call a special meeting someone will have to get the required percentage to call a meeting in writing from required percentage of owners. I read it that you cannot just have voting proxies to be able to call a special meeting. It is supposed to be somewhat difficult to do some things in an HOA and the laws do not make it easy in many instances.


we are single family. HOA. The bylaws allow a special meeting if two or more directors call for one. And of course the annual meeting is an option as well.
JR8 (Oregon)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 03/24/2017 12:06 PM
Posted By JR8 on 03/24/2017 11:27 AM
Posted By JanetB2 on 03/24/2017 9:17 AM
Also, does your documents have a section discussing recalling a director?


At any annual or special meeting of the unit owners duly called, at which a quorum is present, any one or more of the directors may be removed with or without cause by a majority vote of the unit owners present at such meeting. A successor may then, or at any other annual or special meeting of unit owners, be elected to fill the vacancy thus created for the remainder of the term vacated.


As noted in statutes above ... if the director is removed unless replaced immediately if you fall under this section it states:

(c) A director who is removed by the owners remains a director until a successor is elected by the owners or the vacancy is filled as provided in subsection (7) of this section.

That could potentially override the bold statement above in your documents.

the way I understand this is that the director who is recalled REMAINS a director until a replacement is made. Our governing documents allow for a replacement director to happen at a future meeting than the one where someone is recalled.

So in real life, the director the president assumes will be gone following the recall would actually remain a director until someone stepped forward to take his place. Which, in the case no one stepped forward or was appointed (a real possibility in our case) would mean status quo to before the recall. right?
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Without a replacement in mind to immediately step in and take over the vacant director's seat, I think a recall election with another election to fill the vacancy at some ill-defined time in the future is dumb. Way too many loose ends and you could very well find yourself in an even worse situation than what you started with.
JR8 (Oregon)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 03/24/2017 5:51 PM
Without a replacement in mind to immediately step in and take over the vacant director's seat, I think a recall election with another election to fill the vacancy at some ill-defined time in the future is dumb. Way too many loose ends and you could very well find yourself in an even worse situation than what you started with.

agreed..
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
JR8

I believe we have gotten off of your original concern:

Our president is threatening to call a special meeting to have owners "choose" between her and another director with whom she doesn't get along.

Is this still your concern?
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JR8 on 03/24/2017 4:33 PM

the way I understand this is that the director who is recalled REMAINS a director until a replacement is made. Our governing documents allow for a replacement director to happen at a future meeting than the one where someone is recalled.

So in real life, the director the president assumes will be gone following the recall would actually remain a director until someone stepped forward to take his place. Which, in the case no one stepped forward or was appointed (a real possibility in our case) would mean status quo to before the recall. right?

That is the way I read it ...
JR8 (Oregon)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/24/2017 6:21 PM
JR8

I believe we have gotten off of your original concern:

Our president is threatening to call a special meeting to have owners "choose" between her and another director with whom she doesn't get along.

Is this still your concern?

The new question I had about the situation has been answered. Thanks!

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