Problem Homeowner I need HELP!!!

DianaJ (Texas)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Hi all, I have a problem homeowner and I need MAJOR help. It all started 3 years ago when a young couple bought a house in our neighborhood. They are both in their late 20's. They are both young professionals, the wife is an attorney and the husband is a professional civil engineer (although I would say there is nothing civil about him). They both are the libertarian type and seem to have absolutely no respect for authority and are constantly at odds with the board and other neighbors.
Things started off OK when they moved in, they birth seemed friendly in the beginning but things began to change when it became obvious they had no desire to adapt to the social norms of the community (quiet hours, acceptable activities, decorations, yard maintenance ect).
In our neighborhood we have our by-laws plus some unwritten understandings. The unwritten understandings are as follows: auto work is not done on drive ways, we all decorate for christmas, we all use a particular yard company, and quiet hours begin at 9pm and extend until 7 am on weekdays and 8am on weekends.
The first signs of trouble we had with that couple was when they canceled the yard service, the husband started doing the yard himself and would always do a piss poor job. We first tried speaking to him about it and encouraged him to renew the service but he became very hostile and combative to the point neighbors became fearful for their safety. We have contacted law enforcement for the threatening behavior but dive the wife is an attorney responding officers always tell us their "hands are tied"and can only suggest that we contact him through mail and telephone only.
When we began sending the violation letters the husband decided to double down and started fixing cars and welding projects on his drive way and open garage. On some weekends it is so bad that his neighbors complain that is like living next to a fabrication facility. We have tried to get the county involved but the wife always seems to intimidate them into inaction. We are always told "they aren't breaking the law". Whenever we try to use the by laws to force compliance the wife always responds from her firm threatening to litigate the matter. It seems like there is nothing we can do, by the letter of the by laws there isn't any action we could take that would not lead to some protracted legal fight. It is like those two became intimately familiar with the rules and regs do they can push the envelope to the extreme at the expense of the test of the community. I have personally tried reasoning with the wife, she always is pleasant with a smile on her face but is a complete legalist with absolutely no concept of courtesy or compassion. Talking to the husband is impossible he is rude and threatening all the time. Once one of the other husbands attempted to speak to him and made the mistake of stepping into his open garage, the husband pulled out a fire arm and told the other man that legally he could now blew his head off. If course when the incident was reported to the police the wife took care of it and the other husband was issued a criminal tresspass. We are completely at a loss add to what to do. Their house is the largest and most expensive on their street but it is a complete eyesore. I know they have cost a few neighbors the sale of their houses. Nothing works on these people, they have no desire to be part of the community and we are powerless to oust them.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

I believe the solution is actually pretty simple . . .

To the extent allowed by your documents, these unwritten rules need to become written rules. Your governing documents will say how to make that happen. Since everyone but the offending owners will agree to them, it will be easy to secure the votes necessary to change the documents. Then the offending owners must comply with the now written rules or be faced with enforcement actions (assuming your documents and TX state law permits that).

DianaJ (Texas)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Unfortunately, we have tried this route and it has failed. They barely follow the written rules. We took then to court once and the wife actually got a judgement against us where we had to pay their attorney fees (we ended up putting money directly into her pocket). We are at the point where we are actually afraid of them. We are terrified the husband would actually hurt some body.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Why were you unable to get the "unwritten" rules turned into "real rules? In most states we've heard about here, including my own, adding rules is a pretty simple matter and requires only a board decision.

In addition, most HOAs' covenants (CC&Rs; declaration; restrictions) have restrictions against "nuisances"; so even if nothing is in writing about noisy work in their driveway, they can be sent a notice to stop the nuisance, citing the CC&R article. If they don't comply, they'd be sent a notice to attend a hearing, etc., etc.

Are you on the Board, Diana?

DianaJ (Texas)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Yes I am. Must of our unwritten laws are common courtesy. And we have attempted amended by laws because of these people.
When we tried to mandate the use of the one specific lawn company the wife threaten us with anti-trust litigation and our attorney suggested we back down.
When we tried to implement every one must decorate for Christmas the wife threatened an equal housing suite against us because she claimed the rule would exclude non Christians. Jehova's witnesses and Ukrainians from the neighborhood.
We have tried the nuisance clauses, that is what we used to take them to court but that ended very badly for us. The wife was able to convince the judge that we were unfairly targeting them with an over broad application of the cc&r's.
Texas is an extremely friendly state towards personal liberties so it has been a nightmare dealing with these people.

DianaJ (Texas)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Also I want to add that there are other malcontents in the neighborhood won do not appreciate the benefits of our guidelines and they are starting to take the example of that problem house and have begun shirking the rules them selves. There is now a growing problem of "if so and so can do this why not us". This just cause more enforcement problems and makes getting a quorum to handle the problem household more difficult.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

As Kerry and ND said, there’s no reason why you can’t enact rules regarding lawn care – you have written rules on other issues; where did they come from? Some of this sounds like you and your fellow board members are intimidated by these people (and perhaps a few more) to do anything, and if you want to get a grip on resolving this matter, all of you need to get a backbone and quickly. That’s probably why the rest of the community is starting to do whatever they want because the Board doesn’t have the stones to act.

Speaking of rules, you do realize the mandating of a specific lawn care company and holiday decorations was out of line, don’t you? The goal is to have a well maintained lawn and it shouldn’t matter if the homeowner does it or pays someone, anyone {with skills} to do it. And the wife may be overbearing, but she does have a point about the holiday decorations possibly excluding other faiths – in my state, people were fighting over a Nativity display at a county government building last year, (can’t remember the name of the town).

Since you have written rules, your documents probably have language authorizing the board to establish additional rules provided they don’t contradict the CCRs or city/state/federal law (somebody on the board should already know that). Use those “unwritten rules” as a foundation to draft some real ones and ask the homeowners for their input. Take the comments and tweak the rules some more, vote on adopting them and then send a written notice to everyone stating these rules take effect on X date, this is how they will be enforced, these are the appeal rights in case someone gets a violation notice, etc.

When you get to this point, expect screaming and threatening because people like to think they can do whatever to THEIR property and who gives a damn about the neighbors. This couple may howl about being singled out, but if other people are starting to misbehave, I guarantee they’ll be squawking tool. All you can do is be consistent and fair in apply the rules and not worry about lawsuits. People can threaten to sue all they want and even do it, but that doesn’t mean they’ll win. Starting up a new and improved rules enforcement policy isn’t easy and won’t be pretty, but this is what’s necessary when people are immature and don’t get a spanking at the appropriate time.

As for the police, you might want to see if there’s some sort of community outreach person you can talk to who might give you suggestions on what you can do about the husband and when the police can and can’t get involved (I’m sure they get this stuff all the time). It may be every time this guy physically threatens someone, he or she will need to call the non-emergency number (save 911 if he lays hands on someone or pulls out a weapon). The police may not be able to do anything at first, but if people keep calling, that may prompt them to have a conversation with him.

For the county, it may be you’re talking to the wrong agency – contact your local representative or the mayor’s office to see who handles complaints involving noise, high grass, unleased dogs and other stuff that can lead to a citation. Find out what they can and can’t do and how to file a complaint and then distribute that to the neighbors. If someone has a beef with this couple or anyone else and it doesn’t involve the common areas, they’ll have to fix them themselves, but you may be able to use city/county regulations on high grass and what not on the violators (maybe they’ll listen to the city or risk being fined that way). Good luck!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

To tell the truth, Diana, I don't think forcing everyone in your HOA to decorate for Christmas is a "common courtesy." Why should Muslims, Jews and others put Xmas decorations around their homes? (I don't get your Ukrainians remark: most are Orthodox Christians, but they do celebrate Xmas at a slightly different time period).

Don't your CC&Rs give the Board the right to make rules? It should not involve your Bylaws.

Why did the court throw out the nuisance claims of your HOA? What did "overly broad" mean in this case?

I have to agree with the problem woman that your HOA cannot dictate which law service to use.

If the man acts in any threatening manner again, the one who is threaded should call the police.

What is it these other "malcontents" are doing that opposes your actual rules or Bylaws or CC&Rs?

DianaJ (Texas)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Yes our CC&R'S give us the rights to make rules by those rules can only go so far and are more about what home owners can do to their properties rather than on their properties. Like I said everything that couple does skirts the rules. Their grass is always "cut" and "edged" but by no means does it look professionally done. We did enact a rule that lawn maintenance has to be done "professionally" so those two incorporated a lawn care business with one client.
The judge affirmed that we could not specifically make rules prohibiting welding or auto repair. We can make rules that prohibit oil abs rust stains on the driveways but as for prohibiting some one from tinkering with a car or using a home arc welder we can't do that. We tried to go after them for noise issues but they successfully argued in court that the noise they Genesee is on parity with the noise associated with traffic and professional lawn care equipment.
The man is ALWAYS threatening but he is also very smart. He is never directly aggressive yet makes very threatening inferences about police response times and castle doctrine jurisprudence. He has brandished weapons before but police never do anything because he only does so on his property.
As for other malcontents in the neighborhood, they have started getting disrespectful towards hoa and property management employees. In some situations threatening. And when we issue violations, in the past people simply fixed the issues now we have a core group of trouble makers who show up to hearings with the trouble wife as their legal counsel.
Our neighborhood is in the unincorporated county do there is no mayor or city council for us to lab on. We are under county jurisdiction, they are the ones who handle the leash laws, noise ordinances ect. The few times we are able to get police to issue noise citations to the husband, the wife always contests them at the county level and gets them thrown out so far the only Victor the HOA and the board has ever won against these two is we were able to force him to take down a large Taiwanese flag he hung on the outside of his house.
Although I don't agree with this, one board member even went as far as to complain to husband's employer and to the Texas board of professional engineers about the husband's behavior but he was blown off by both bodies.

DianaJ (Texas)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 03/21/2017 12:15 PM
As Kerry and ND said, there’s no reason why you can’t enact rules regarding lawn care – you have written rules on other issues; where did they come from? Some of this sounds like you and your fellow board members are intimidated by these people (and perhaps a few more) to do anything, and if you want to get a grip on resolving this matter, all of you need to get a backbone and quickly. That’s probably why the rest of the community is starting to do whatever they want because the Board doesn’t have the stones to act.

Speaking of rules, you do realize the mandating of a specific lawn care company and holiday decorations was out of line, don’t you? The goal is to have a well maintained lawn and it shouldn’t matter if the homeowner does it or pays someone, anyone {with skills} to do it. And the wife may be overbearing, but she does have a point about the holiday decorations possibly excluding other faiths – in my state, people were fighting over a Nativity display at a county government building last year, (can’t remember the name of the town).

Since you have written rules, your documents probably have language authorizing the board to establish additional rules provided they don’t contradict the CCRs or city/state/federal law (somebody on the board should already know that). Use those “unwritten rules” as a foundation to draft some real ones and ask the homeowners for their input. Take the comments and tweak the rules some more, vote on adopting them and then send a written notice to everyone stating these rules take effect on X date, this is how they will be enforced, these are the appeal rights in case someone gets a violation notice, etc.

When you get to this point, expect screaming and threatening because people like to think they can do whatever to THEIR property and who gives a damn about the neighbors. This couple may howl about being singled out, but if other people are starting to misbehave, I guarantee they’ll be squawking tool. All you can do is be consistent and fair in apply the rules and not worry about lawsuits. People can threaten to sue all they want and even do it, but that doesn’t mean they’ll win. Starting up a new and improved rules enforcement policy isn’t easy and won’t be pretty, but this is what’s necessary when people are immature and don’t get a spanking at the appropriate time.

As for the police, you might want to see if there’s some sort of community outreach person you can talk to who might give you suggestions on what you can do about the husband and when the police can and can’t get involved (I’m sure they get this stuff all the time). It may be every time this guy physically threatens someone, he or she will need to call the non-emergency number (save 911 if he lays hands on someone or pulls out a weapon). The police may not be able to do anything at first, but if people keep calling, that may prompt them to have a conversation with him.

For the county, it may be you’re talking to the wrong agency – contact your local representative or the mayor’s office to see who handles complaints involving noise, high grass, unleased dogs and other stuff that can lead to a citation. Find out what they can and can’t do and how to file a complaint and then distribute that to the neighbors. If someone has a beef with this couple or anyone else and it doesn’t involve the common areas, they’ll have to fix them themselves, but you may be able to use city/county regulations on high grass and what not on the violators (maybe they’ll listen to the city or risk being fined that way). Good luck!

The problem is unlike people who just howl and scream this couple is not fighting us in the street, they are not shy to fight us in the court room. The wife is an attorney, when we took them to court she got a change of venue to the state court, and not only did she get our case thrown out she got a judgment against us. I wish it was just then howling about unfair treatment, in truth what happened was they put a counterclaim against and prevailed in court. We sued them but we ended up paying out.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DianaJ on 03/21/2017 12:51 PM

The problem is unlike people who just howl and scream this couple is not fighting us in the street, they are not shy to fight us in the court room. The wife is an attorney, when we took them to court she got a change of venue to the state court, and not only did she get our case thrown out she got a judgment against us. I wish it was just then howling about unfair treatment, in truth what happened was they put a counterclaim against and prevailed in court. We sued them but we ended up paying out.

So does that maybe tell you that you're not right here? You take them to court, and you lose.

Maybe take a hint?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

“Professionally done” sounds subjective – you may think it should look exactly like what you might see on a golf course, for example, but as long as it doesn’t have junk strewn about and the lawn doesn’t reach up to your knees or higher, you may have to agree to disagree on that one.

Noise can also be a little subjective – some people are more sensitive than others. On the other hand, if someone’s throwing a wild party at 3am, THAT should warrant a noise complaint with the police department.
As far as the welding goes, are you concerned about it being a fire hazard? If these are detached homes, you might not be able to do anything about that (if the house burns down because someone gets careless, that homeowner will have to deal with it). If the welder or auto repair people appear to be running a business, that could be a different story and perhaps your local zoning office can step in (if there are regulations about running certain businesses in a residential area)

In our community, our WRITTEN rules prohibit auto repair other than an emergency like jumping a battery or changing a flat because people usually do oil changes and what not on the street and that damages the concrete. If the HOA is responsible for street maintenance, that’s a rule worth enforcing because the repairs are ultimately paid for by the homeowners.

It’s true there are some people who really don’t know or care what they’re getting into when living in a HOA community, but perhaps you should step back and think about these rules (written and unwritten). It may be some of them ARE too broad and might have been passed because one or two people were honked off at someone else and happened to be on the board at the time and so the rule was enacted. You can’t legislate everything – concentrate on the problems that can impact a lot of people very quickly and tailor your rules to that. For example, you should want to enforce rules requiring people to clean up after their pets because dog (or cat) poo can destroy lawns and lead to vermin infestation, which can lead to property damage and bites that will require rabies shots.

In fact, why don't you go to the Community Association Institute (CAI) website and consider getting some of their education materials on making rules and rules enforcement? I'm beginning to think your board could use some training on best practices. I think they may also have some materials on how to deal with difficult people.

PS - you're correct that the board member complaining to the husband's employer and licensing board was another waste of time - if his conduct doesn't impact his job performance or licensing credentials, they don't care.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

DianaJ (Texas)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM31 on 03/21/2017 12:53 PM

Posted By DianaJ on 03/21/2017 12:51 PM

The problem is unlike people who just howl and scream this couple is not fighting us in the street, they are not shy to fight us in the court room. The wife is an attorney, when we took them to court she got a change of venue to the state court, and not only did she get our case thrown out she got a judgment against us. I wish it was just then howling about unfair treatment, in truth what happened was they put a counterclaim against and prevailed in court. We sued them but we ended up paying out.

So does that maybe tell you that you're not right here? You take them to court, and you lose.

Maybe take a hint?

There are things that are "right" and there are things that are truly correct. Just because some one prevailed in court doesn't mean their actions are truly correct. These people are making the neighborhood an unpleasant place to live and are unconcerned about the affect on their neighbors.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494

Posted:

And you think you are correct because you think you are correct. The courts have decided the other party was correct.

Are you here to get opinions, or just opinions that agree with yours? I think you all need a chill pill and let your neighbors live in their house as the law and your CC&Rs allow, and not get wrapped up about following unwritten rules which in some cases illegal.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DianaJ on 03/21/2017 12:45 PM

Although I don't agree with this, one board member even went as far as to complain to husband's employer and to the Texas board of professional engineers about the husband's behavior but he was blown off by both bodies.

That is about as childish as it gets.

DianaJ (Texas)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 03/21/2017 1:11 PM
“Professionally done” sounds subjective – you may think it should look exactly like what you might see on a golf course, for example, but as long as it doesn’t have junk strewn about and the lawn doesn’t reach up to your knees or higher, you may have to agree to disagree on that one.

Noise can also be a little subjective – some people are more sensitive than others. On the other hand, if someone’s throwing a wild party at 3am, THAT should warrant a noise complaint with the police department.
As far as the welding goes, are you concerned about it being a fire hazard? If these are detached homes, you might not be able to do anything about that (if the house burns down because someone gets careless, that homeowner will have to deal with it). If the welder or auto repair people appear to be running a business, that could be a different story and perhaps your local zoning office can step in (if there are regulations about running certain businesses in a residential area)

In our community, our WRITTEN rules prohibit auto repair other than an emergency like jumping a battery or changing a flat because people usually do oil changes and what not on the street and that damages the concrete. If the HOA is responsible for street maintenance, that’s a rule worth enforcing because the repairs are ultimately paid for by the homeowners.

It’s true there are some people who really don’t know or care what they’re getting into when living in a HOA community, but perhaps you should step back and think about these rules (written and unwritten). It may be some of them ARE too broad and might have been passed because one or two people were honked off at someone else and happened to be on the board at the time and so the rule was enacted. You can’t legislate everything – concentrate on the problems that can impact a lot of people very quickly and tailor your rules to that. For example, you should want to enforce rules requiring people to clean up after their pets because dog (or cat) poo can destroy lawns and lead to vermin infestation, which can lead to property damage and bites that will require rabies shots.

In fact, why don't you go to the Community Association Institute (CAI) website and consider getting some of their education materials on making rules and rules enforcement? I'm beginning to think your board could use some training on best practices. I think they may also have some materials on how to deal with difficult people.

PS - you're correct that the board member complaining to the husband's employer and licensing board was another waste of time - if his conduct doesn't impact his job performance or licensing credentials, they don't care.

The streets are owned by the county so that is why we didn't prevail when we tried to prohibit auto work. About the welding, we are concerned about the welding flash that occurs when an arc is stuck. Parents are hesitant to allow their kids outside to play because of it. We don't have zoning where we are, so we are out of luck on that. It is just frustrating that the only advice the county and our attorneys can give us is that "he will tire himself out eventually, no one stays in their 20's forever".
As for poop rules we enforce them vigorously, same with leash laws and the like. This is why most of the neighborhood looks empecable. These people are a cancer and they are slowly eroding the image and esthetics of the community.

DianaJ (Texas)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM31 on 03/21/2017 1:18 PM
And you think you are correct because you think you are correct. The courts have decided the other party was correct.

Are you here to get opinions, or just opinions that agree with yours? I think you all need a chill pill and let your neighbors live in their house as the law and your CC&Rs allow, and not get wrapped up about following unwritten rules which in some cases illegal.

Perhaps you and your family should try to live next to a fabrication yard for a spell. And I am sure you will remain "chill" when your children tell you that they don't want to play outside due to the constant smell of burning metal and scorched galvanize.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DianaJ on 03/21/2017 1:26 PM

Perhaps you and your family should try to live next to a fabrication yard for a spell. And I am sure you will remain "chill" when your children tell you that they don't want to play outside due to the constant smell of burning metal and scorched galvanize.

A one man hobby does all that damage?

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DianaJ on 03/21/2017 1:22 PM
About the welding, we are concerned about the welding flash that occurs when an arc is stuck. Parents are hesitant to allow their kids outside to play because of it.

After about 40 feet there isn't much danger, the power of the arc disipates by the root of the distance. But if you continue to be concerned you may ask the weldor to invest in a shield or two. Be aware that these curtains are translucent, so they do allow light to pass thru. They just knock down the dangerous levels.

http://store.cyberweld.com/blstwesc6x6b.html

http://prtl.uhcl.edu/risk-management/documents/risk-management-arc-viewing-distances.pdf
Here is the AWS circular on arc light. For stick or mig a kid would have to stare at the weld for an hour straight from within 30 feet for an issue. This is something that the weldor should be able to stop with curtains. As for your other concerns about these conditions and how they may destroy your little snowflakes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmuZRjOf2Fg

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM31 on 03/21/2017 1:21 PM

Posted By DianaJ on 03/21/2017 12:45 PM
Although I don't agree with this, one board member even went as far as to complain to husband's employer and to the Texas board of professional engineers about the husband's behavior but he was blown off by both bodies.

That is about as childish as it gets.

It sounds like this situation will continue until the lawyer-homeowner and her engineer spouse sue the crap out of these ignorant board members trying to use their positions to enforce imaginary rules. The board members have breached their fiduciary duty to the association's members by using HOA resources to pursue their own personal agendas outside the scope of the recorded property restrictions. By doing so, they have made themselves personally liable for the damage they have caused.

Under what theory of law does an association acquire the authority enforce unwritten restrictions by deliberately and intentionally interfering with a property owner's professional reputation? If someone did that in my state he could be charged with felony harassment.

The basic problem here is that the board seems to be comprised of members who have given "Texas stupid" a new low mark. Rather than educate themselves as to what they may lawfully do, the board is hell-bent on pursuing a vendetta against the two homeowners who are best able to fight back. And they are so stupid that no matter how many times a judge hands them a defeat they come right back with more stupidity.

If Diana thinks these owners are rude, she should thank her lucky stars that I am not her neighbor.

DianaJ (Texas)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM31 on 03/21/2017 1:29 PM

Posted By DianaJ on 03/21/2017 1:26 PM

Perhaps you and your family should try to live next to a fabrication yard for a spell. And I am sure you will remain "chill" when your children tell you that they don't want to play outside due to the constant smell of burning metal and scorched galvanize.

A one man hobby does all that damage?

It's not a one man hobby. He constantly has helpers over and they seem to always be welding bbq pits or other things. We are all almost sure that this is a side business for then but we can't prove it and we don't have zoning. Same with the auto work. We are not talking about an oil change ever three months or so. We are taking about major chassis and engine work, frame fabrication,and other things. Also is not just the husband. The wife a lot of the time is out there either helping him and his band of merry men or sunning herself in her Itty bitty confederate flag bikini. On weekends they are always outside and always doing something. They constantly have a BBQ grill going. It is like between Friday night and Sunday afternoon those two practically live in their front yard.
If it weren't for the fact that the husband is a public engineer and the wife is an attorney I would have thought they were either a pair of hillbillies or drunken college kids. In fact the first time I met the husband I thought he was a punk teenager and asked to speak to his parents.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494

Posted:

Not root, one over the square of the distance. So at two feet there is 1/4 the power of the ard that there is at one foot. At thirty feet there is 1/900th the arc light power. Add to the chance the arc light is in fact indirect and it really gets miniscule.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494

Posted:

Is there an issue in how she looks in her itty bitty bikini and how you look in the same?

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494

Posted:

Stoopid Ukranians. They don't like Christmas.

DianaJ (Texas)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM31 on 03/21/2017 1:54 PM
Is there an issue in how she looks in her itty bitty bikini and how you look in the same?

Not at all, the issue is when we purchased or homes none of us thought we would be living in an episode of the Dukes of Hazzard. Besides before things soured between that couple and the rest of us I use to play beach volley ball with that woman and we were pretty evenly matched.

DianaJ (Texas)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM31 on 03/21/2017 1:51 PM
Not root, one over the square of the distance. So at two feet there is 1/4 the power of the ard that there is at one foot. At thirty feet there is 1/900th the arc light power. Add to the chance the arc light is in fact indirect and it really gets miniscule.

How about the constant smell of burning steel and galvanize?

MichelleK5 (New York)
Posts: 161

Posted:

Diane - They win (and I for one applaud them for taking you and the board on.)

You will never understand how wrong you are on most of these issues.
So if I were you, I'd follow in the steps of what some neighbors have already done - sell and move.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Oh my what the neighbors may think??? Sounds like a fun group of people living their lives. They bought the home and they are living in it like one should. Sorry but I say I kind of like these people. It's my property, my land, and I am paying the dues. I say wear my itty bitty itty bitty bikini, eat barb-b-que, and make a hobby on the side. The American Dream till the neighbors got hurt by visions of red neck activity...

Honestly, what damage has happened except for people living their lives? None. Relax and do the same. If you don't want to, then don't. Problem solved and tongues can return to everyone's mouths...

Former HOA President

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494

Posted:

Good luck to the OP. Even though I don't think you're going to get the affirmation you seek, please keep us up to date with your battle against these hillbillies who flaunt your unwritten understandings.

RobertB55 (Texas)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DianaJ on 03/21/2017 1:22 PM

Posted By SheliaH on 03/21/2017 1:11 PM
“Professionally done” sounds subjective – you may think it should look exactly like what you might see on a golf course, for example, but as long as it doesn’t have junk strewn about and the lawn doesn’t reach up to your knees or higher, you may have to agree to disagree on that one.

Noise can also be a little subjective – some people are more sensitive than others. On the other hand, if someone’s throwing a wild party at 3am, THAT should warrant a noise complaint with the police department.
As far as the welding goes, are you concerned about it being a fire hazard? If these are detached homes, you might not be able to do anything about that (if the house burns down because someone gets careless, that homeowner will have to deal with it). If the welder or auto repair people appear to be running a business, that could be a different story and perhaps your local zoning office can step in (if there are regulations about running certain businesses in a residential area)

In our community, our WRITTEN rules prohibit auto repair other than an emergency like jumping a battery or changing a flat because people usually do oil changes and what not on the street and that damages the concrete. If the HOA is responsible for street maintenance, that’s a rule worth enforcing because the repairs are ultimately paid for by the homeowners.

It’s true there are some people who really don’t know or care what they’re getting into when living in a HOA community, but perhaps you should step back and think about these rules (written and unwritten). It may be some of them ARE too broad and might have been passed because one or two people were honked off at someone else and happened to be on the board at the time and so the rule was enacted. You can’t legislate everything – concentrate on the problems that can impact a lot of people very quickly and tailor your rules to that. For example, you should want to enforce rules requiring people to clean up after their pets because dog (or cat) poo can destroy lawns and lead to vermin infestation, which can lead to property damage and bites that will require rabies shots.

In fact, why don't you go to the Community Association Institute (CAI) website and consider getting some of their education materials on making rules and rules enforcement? I'm beginning to think your board could use some training on best practices. I think they may also have some materials on how to deal with difficult people.

PS - you're correct that the board member complaining to the husband's employer and licensing board was another waste of time - if his conduct doesn't impact his job performance or licensing credentials, they don't care.

The streets are owned by the county so that is why we didn't prevail when we tried to prohibit auto work. About the welding, we are concerned about the welding flash that occurs when an arc is stuck. Parents are hesitant to allow their kids outside to play because of it. We don't have zoning where we are, so we are out of luck on that. It is just frustrating that the only advice the county and our attorneys can give us is that "he will tire himself out eventually, no one stays in their 20's forever".
As for poop rules we enforce them vigorously, same with leash laws and the like. This is why most of the neighborhood looks empecable. These people are a cancer and they are slowly eroding the image and esthetics of the community.

Speaking as a Texas P.E. myself I would like to add that complaining to the board about this man was absolutely the right thing to do. If this man is really a P.E. his first duty is to the public and he, along with the rest of us who poses a seal, must hold himself to a higher standard of good moral character. Furthermore the good moral character of a Texas Engineer is established both when he is behind his desk and when he is away from it. These are not my words by the way but words codified by the Texas Board of Professional Engineers and are read at the beginning of every meeting of the disciplinary committee.
A man who would brandish a firearm in a threatening manner is not demonstrating good moral character and he is not living up to his duty to the public.
Also, for those of you who are unaware, the Texas castle doctrine know as stand your ground does not give a homeowner the right to "blow someone's head off" and then point a gun at them in response to a person simply stepping into your garage, even a trespasser (although in the situation described by the OP it sounds like that intrusion would not even be legally considered a trespass ).
At best the home owner acted out of ignorance of the law (something which the PE board has used as grounds to deny or revoke a license ) at worst the home owner was knowingly acting in a criminal manner with the knowledge that his attorney wife would help him evade legal consequences (also something which licences have been denied or revoked for).
Another thing, OP mentioned the smell of burning galvanizing, if this man is a civil engineer he should be aware that welding on and brazing galvanized steel releases toxic fumes. So I agree that the light hazard due to the arcs are of negligible danger but the combustion of zinc galvanize is a totally other matter. So OP has reason to want to stop this activity.
OP, you mentioned that the wife likes to sun herself in a confederate flag bikini? And the husband had displayed a large Taiwanese flag? May I ask if this flag had a white sun on it or if it had a red flower on it? I think I may know these people.

BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DianaJ . . . Although I don't agree with this, one board member even went as far as to complain to husband's employer and to the Texas board of professional engineers about the husband's behavior but he was blown off by both bodies.

Diana J Tx Respectfully I missed in your comments above what your HOAs attorney advised about tolerating these disruptive new folks who have been legally wiping the floor with the HOA.

If counsel was given, what respectfully did the HOA attorney suggest about enforcing 'unwritten rules', compulsory Christmas decorations, wearing Confederate itty bitty bikinis, purporting to professionally damage one or both of the new neighbours, etc ?

With greatest respect, are you just poking some fun at the commenters ? Are you actually one of those undergrad law students getting some mirth about property & civil rights issues in Texas ? Genuinely sorry if this is a mistaken question.

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494

Posted:

Oh, this is good.

MichelleK5 (New York)
Posts: 161

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BobD4 on 03/22/2017 7:00 AM

Posted By DianaJ . . . Although I don't agree with this, one board member even went as far as to complain to husband's employer and to the Texas board of professional engineers about the husband's behavior but he was blown off by both bodies.

Diana J Tx Respectfully I missed in your comments above what your HOAs attorney advised about tolerating these disruptive new folks who have been legally wiping the floor with the HOA.

If counsel was given, what respectfully did the HOA attorney suggest about enforcing 'unwritten rules', compulsory Christmas decorations, wearing Confederate itty bitty bikinis, purporting to professionally damage one or both of the new neighbours, etc ?

With greatest respect, are you just poking some fun at the commenters ? Are you actually one of those undergrad law students getting some mirth about property & civil rights issues in Texas ? Genuinely sorry if this is a mistaken question.

I was wondering if this entire thread was "real."
Maybe because I'm from the northeast, but I honestly have not encountered what I consider "absolute stupidity" in anything other than cartoon characters, (e.g Road Runner cartoons) until this thread.
Even when I was having issues with my own HOA, no one was ever deliberately ignorant.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

..... plus some unwritten understandings.

Since these 'understandings' are outside the actual written covenants they are, in fact, unenforceable.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

.....and.....

all the world's children have, presumably, been fed today

DianaJ (Texas)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BobD4 on 03/22/2017 7:00 AM

Posted By DianaJ . . . Although I don't agree with this, one board member even went as far as to complain to husband's employer and to the Texas board of professional engineers about the husband's behavior but he was blown off by both bodies.

Diana J Tx Respectfully I missed in your comments above what your HOAs attorney advised about tolerating these disruptive new folks who have been legally wiping the floor with the HOA.

If counsel was given, what respectfully did the HOA attorney suggest about enforcing 'unwritten rules', compulsory Christmas decorations, wearing Confederate itty bitty bikinis, purporting to professionally damage one or both of the new neighbours, etc ?

With greatest respect, are you just poking some fun at the commenters ? Are you actually one of those undergrad law students getting some mirth about property & civil rights issues in Texas ? Genuinely sorry if this is a mistaken question.

There is nothing fun about this situation.
First, about the unwritten rules of the community, many of then are more about common courtesy and consideration (quiet hours and noautowork) for aesthetics (the Christmas lights thing and the lawn care service thing). I mention or unwritten rules more to give a sense of context about the community culture of our neighborhood. When I say we in my posts I am speaking from the point of view taken by our board at large and I may have not clearly delineated what my personal greviances towards these people as compared to those of the board at large. Personally the issue with the Christmas lights doesn't really register too high on my radar. It would be nice if we didn't have one solitary house completely dark when every one else is light up, but that is not something I personally would have gotten into a legal squabble over.
About them constantly being outside in the front yard on the weekends. For me persinally this is a minor agitation. I agree that they have a right to enjoy their property as we all do but they are very disruptive. They are either building something, working on vehicles or tailgating. It bothers me that this is a constant thing on the weekends. All the homes here have large back yards yet this couple thinks it appropriate to be always camped out in the front yard with their entourage.
The lawn service issue, rates slightly higher for me. The reason we all use the same lawn service is because the lands and landscaping get done on the same day and in the same manner for each respective street. This makes the streets picture perfect and unforme. I would have been OK with the husband doing his own lawn or using a service of his choosing if the quality if work was similar to that of all the other lawns. However he seems to take no pride in maintenance and consistently does an extremely poor job and it is obvious that their house is the odd man out. This affects their direct neighbors the most as it detracts from the aesthetics of their property. We tried to change the rules to ameliorate this issue, but the wife threatened us with an antitrust suite and our attorneys advised us to back down on this issue.
The thing that really concerns and bothers me, as it does the rest of the board, is the constant autowork/fabrication and the propensity of the husband to threaten people with gun violence. There is a reason we don't chose to live in inner city industrial areas. For me personally, at this point I would be pleased as punch if the fabrication work got scaled back a bit and if the husband's first response was not to brandish a firearm when we try to speak to him about their disruptive behavior. That man actually once told my husband that if he didn't get off his property or son won't grow up with a daddy. He aid this right in front of our 8 yearold.

DianaJ (Texas)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RobertB55 on 03/22/2017 6:50 AM

Posted By DianaJ on 03/21/2017 1:22 PM

Posted By SheliaH on 03/21/2017 1:11 PM
“Professionally done” sounds subjective – you may think it should look exactly like what you might see on a golf course, for example, but as long as it doesn’t have junk strewn about and the lawn doesn’t reach up to your knees or higher, you may have to agree to disagree on that one.

Noise can also be a little subjective – some people are more sensitive than others. On the other hand, if someone’s throwing a wild party at 3am, THAT should warrant a noise complaint with the police department.
As far as the welding goes, are you concerned about it being a fire hazard? If these are detached homes, you might not be able to do anything about that (if the house burns down because someone gets careless, that homeowner will have to deal with it). If the welder or auto repair people appear to be running a business, that could be a different story and perhaps your local zoning office can step in (if there are regulations about running certain businesses in a residential area)

In our community, our WRITTEN rules prohibit auto repair other than an emergency like jumping a battery or changing a flat because people usually do oil changes and what not on the street and that damages the concrete. If the HOA is responsible for street maintenance, that’s a rule worth enforcing because the repairs are ultimately paid for by the homeowners.

It’s true there are some people who really don’t know or care what they’re getting into when living in a HOA community, but perhaps you should step back and think about these rules (written and unwritten). It may be some of them ARE too broad and might have been passed because one or two people were honked off at someone else and happened to be on the board at the time and so the rule was enacted. You can’t legislate everything – concentrate on the problems that can impact a lot of people very quickly and tailor your rules to that. For example, you should want to enforce rules requiring people to clean up after their pets because dog (or cat) poo can destroy lawns and lead to vermin infestation, which can lead to property damage and bites that will require rabies shots.

In fact, why don't you go to the Community Association Institute (CAI) website and consider getting some of their education materials on making rules and rules enforcement? I'm beginning to think your board could use some training on best practices. I think they may also have some materials on how to deal with difficult people.

PS - you're correct that the board member complaining to the husband's employer and licensing board was another waste of time - if his conduct doesn't impact his job performance or licensing credentials, they don't care.

The streets are owned by the county so that is why we didn't prevail when we tried to prohibit auto work. About the welding, we are concerned about the welding flash that occurs when an arc is stuck. Parents are hesitant to allow their kids outside to play because of it. We don't have zoning where we are, so we are out of luck on that. It is just frustrating that the only advice the county and our attorneys can give us is that "he will tire himself out eventually, no one stays in their 20's forever".
As for poop rules we enforce them vigorously, same with leash laws and the like. This is why most of the neighborhood looks empecable. These people are a cancer and they are slowly eroding the image and esthetics of the community.

Speaking as a Texas P.E. myself I would like to add that complaining to the board about this man was absolutely the right thing to do. If this man is really a P.E. his first duty is to the public and he, along with the rest of us who poses a seal, must hold himself to a higher standard of good moral character. Furthermore the good moral character of a Texas Engineer is established both when he is behind his desk and when he is away from it. These are not my words by the way but words codified by the Texas Board of Professional Engineers and are read at the beginning of every meeting of the disciplinary committee.
A man who would brandish a firearm in a threatening manner is not demonstrating good moral character and he is not living up to his duty to the public.
Also, for those of you who are unaware, the Texas castle doctrine know as stand your ground does not give a homeowner the right to "blow someone's head off" and then point a gun at them in response to a person simply stepping into your garage, even a trespasser (although in the situation described by the OP it sounds like that intrusion would not even be legally considered a trespass ).
At best the home owner acted out of ignorance of the law (something which the PE board has used as grounds to deny or revoke a license ) at worst the home owner was knowingly acting in a criminal manner with the knowledge that his attorney wife would help him evade legal consequences (also something which licences have been denied or revoked for).
Another thing, OP mentioned the smell of burning galvanizing, if this man is a civil engineer he should be aware that welding on and brazing galvanized steel releases toxic fumes. So I agree that the light hazard due to the arcs are of negligible danger but the combustion of zinc galvanize is a totally other matter. So OP has reason to want to stop this activity.
OP, you mentioned that the wife likes to sun herself in a confederate flag bikini? And the husband had displayed a large Taiwanese flag? May I ask if this flag had a white sun on it or if it had a red flower on it? I think I may know these people.

White sun

RobertB55 (Texas)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DianaJ on 03/22/2017 7:55 AM

Posted By RobertB55 on 03/22/2017 6:50 AM

Posted By DianaJ on 03/21/2017 1:22 PM

Posted By SheliaH on 03/21/2017 1:11 PM
“Professionally done” sounds subjective – you may think it should look exactly like what you might see on a golf course, for example, but as long as it doesn’t have junk strewn about and the lawn doesn’t reach up to your knees or higher, you may have to agree to disagree on that one.

Noise can also be a little subjective – some people are more sensitive than others. On the other hand, if someone’s throwing a wild party at 3am, THAT should warrant a noise complaint with the police department.
As far as the welding goes, are you concerned about it being a fire hazard? If these are detached homes, you might not be able to do anything about that (if the house burns down because someone gets careless, that homeowner will have to deal with it). If the welder or auto repair people appear to be running a business, that could be a different story and perhaps your local zoning office can step in (if there are regulations about running certain businesses in a residential area)

In our community, our WRITTEN rules prohibit auto repair other than an emergency like jumping a battery or changing a flat because people usually do oil changes and what not on the street and that damages the concrete. If the HOA is responsible for street maintenance, that’s a rule worth enforcing because the repairs are ultimately paid for by the homeowners.

It’s true there are some people who really don’t know or care what they’re getting into when living in a HOA community, but perhaps you should step back and think about these rules (written and unwritten). It may be some of them ARE too broad and might have been passed because one or two people were honked off at someone else and happened to be on the board at the time and so the rule was enacted. You can’t legislate everything – concentrate on the problems that can impact a lot of people very quickly and tailor your rules to that. For example, you should want to enforce rules requiring people to clean up after their pets because dog (or cat) poo can destroy lawns and lead to vermin infestation, which can lead to property damage and bites that will require rabies shots.

In fact, why don't you go to the Community Association Institute (CAI) website and consider getting some of their education materials on making rules and rules enforcement? I'm beginning to think your board could use some training on best practices. I think they may also have some materials on how to deal with difficult people.

PS - you're correct that the board member complaining to the husband's employer and licensing board was another waste of time - if his conduct doesn't impact his job performance or licensing credentials, they don't care.

The streets are owned by the county so that is why we didn't prevail when we tried to prohibit auto work. About the welding, we are concerned about the welding flash that occurs when an arc is stuck. Parents are hesitant to allow their kids outside to play because of it. We don't have zoning where we are, so we are out of luck on that. It is just frustrating that the only advice the county and our attorneys can give us is that "he will tire himself out eventually, no one stays in their 20's forever".
As for poop rules we enforce them vigorously, same with leash laws and the like. This is why most of the neighborhood looks empecable. These people are a cancer and they are slowly eroding the image and esthetics of the community.

Speaking as a Texas P.E. myself I would like to add that complaining to the board about this man was absolutely the right thing to do. If this man is really a P.E. his first duty is to the public and he, along with the rest of us who poses a seal, must hold himself to a higher standard of good moral character. Furthermore the good moral character of a Texas Engineer is established both when he is behind his desk and when he is away from it. These are not my words by the way but words codified by the Texas Board of Professional Engineers and are read at the beginning of every meeting of the disciplinary committee.
A man who would brandish a firearm in a threatening manner is not demonstrating good moral character and he is not living up to his duty to the public.
Also, for those of you who are unaware, the Texas castle doctrine know as stand your ground does not give a homeowner the right to "blow someone's head off" and then point a gun at them in response to a person simply stepping into your garage, even a trespasser (although in the situation described by the OP it sounds like that intrusion would not even be legally considered a trespass ).
At best the home owner acted out of ignorance of the law (something which the PE board has used as grounds to deny or revoke a license ) at worst the home owner was knowingly acting in a criminal manner with the knowledge that his attorney wife would help him evade legal consequences (also something which licences have been denied or revoked for).
Another thing, OP mentioned the smell of burning galvanizing, if this man is a civil engineer he should be aware that welding on and brazing galvanized steel releases toxic fumes. So I agree that the light hazard due to the arcs are of negligible danger but the combustion of zinc galvanize is a totally other matter. So OP has reason to want to stop this activity.
OP, you mentioned that the wife likes to sun herself in a confederate flag bikini? And the husband had displayed a large Taiwanese flag? May I ask if this flag had a white sun on it or if it had a red flower on it? I think I may know these people.

White sun

Uh.huh my best advice to you is to just drop it and pretend that house doesn't exist. It will be easier that way, I don't doubt that you are 1000% justified in your frustration but let it go. Yes that guy is in the wrong and yes his behavior is repugnant but if what you have described is the worst that has happened I am telling you it is best to just let this go before it escalates. Trust me you don't want a drawn out conflict with that couple.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DianaJ on 03/22/2017 7:49 AM
First, about the unwritten rules of the community, many of then are more about common courtesy and consideration (quiet hours and noautowork) for aesthetics (the Christmas lights thing and the lawn care service thing). I mention or unwritten rules more to give a sense of context about the community culture of our neighborhood. When I say we in my posts I am speaking from the point of view taken by our board at large and I may have not clearly delineated what my personal greviances towards these people as compared to those of the board at large. Personally the issue with the Christmas lights doesn't really register too high on my radar. It would be nice if we didn't have one solitary house completely dark when every one else is light up, but that is not something I personally would have gotten into a legal squabble over.

Neither you personally nor your association have a shred of a legal right to enforce unrecorded restrictions on how your neighbors may use their property. You should have searched for subdivision with more restrictions instead of purchasing a home in your current neighborhood.

Quote:

About them constantly being outside in the front yard on the weekends. For me persinally this is a minor agitation. I agree that they have a right to enjoy their property as we all do but they are very disruptive. They are either building something, working on vehicles or tailgating. It bothers me that this is a constant thing on the weekends. All the homes here have large back yards yet this couple thinks it appropriate to be always camped out in the front yard with their entourage.

Same answer.

Quote:

The lawn service issue, rates slightly higher for me. The reason we all use the same lawn service is because the lands and landscaping get done on the same day and in the same manner for each respective street. This makes the streets picture perfect and unforme. I would have been OK with the husband doing his own lawn or using a service of his choosing if the quality if work was similar to that of all the other lawns. However he seems to take no pride in maintenance and consistently does an extremely poor job and it is obvious that their house is the odd man out. This affects their direct neighbors the most as it detracts from the aesthetics of their property. We tried to change the rules to ameliorate this issue, but the wife threatened us with an antitrust suite and our attorneys advised us to back down on this issue.

The courts in most states seem to hold that covenants may not be amended to make them more restrictive or to impose new and unforeseen burdens on the existing property owners. Your attorney advised you well; too bad you refuse to listen to his advice.

Quote:

The thing that really concerns and bothers me, as it does the rest of the board, is the constant autowork/fabrication and the propensity of the husband to threaten people with gun violence. There is a reason we don't chose to live in inner city industrial areas. For me personally, at this point I would be pleased as punch if the fabrication work got scaled back a bit and if the husband's first response was not to brandish a firearm when we try to speak to him about their disruptive behavior. That man actually once told my husband that if he didn't get off his property or son won't grow up with a daddy. He aid this right in front of our 8 yearold.

Why does your husband believe he has a right to enter your neighbor's property and demand that the neighbor refrain from lawful, peaceful enjoyment of his property? What kind of irresponsible moron takes his 8-year-old along with him to criminally harass another homeowner? If I knew who you are I would contact Child Protective Services so they can terminate your parental rights.

RobertB55 (Texas)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 03/22/2017 10:11 AM

Posted By DianaJ on 03/22/2017 7:49 AM
First, about the unwritten rules of the community, many of then are more about common courtesy and consideration (quiet hours and noautowork) for aesthetics (the Christmas lights thing and the lawn care service thing). I mention or unwritten rules more to give a sense of context about the community culture of our neighborhood. When I say we in my posts I am speaking from the point of view taken by our board at large and I may have not clearly delineated what my personal greviances towards these people as compared to those of the board at large. Personally the issue with the Christmas lights doesn't really register too high on my radar. It would be nice if we didn't have one solitary house completely dark when every one else is light up, but that is not something I personally would have gotten into a legal squabble over.

Neither you personally nor your association have a shred of a legal right to enforce unrecorded restrictions on how your neighbors may use their property. You should have searched for subdivision with more restrictions instead of purchasing a home in your current neighborhood.

Quote:

About them constantly being outside in the front yard on the weekends. For me persinally this is a minor agitation. I agree that they have a right to enjoy their property as we all do but they are very disruptive. They are either building something, working on vehicles or tailgating. It bothers me that this is a constant thing on the weekends. All the homes here have large back yards yet this couple thinks it appropriate to be always camped out in the front yard with their entourage.

Same answer.

Quote:

The lawn service issue, rates slightly higher for me. The reason we all use the same lawn service is because the lands and landscaping get done on the same day and in the same manner for each respective street. This makes the streets picture perfect and unforme. I would have been OK with the husband doing his own lawn or using a service of his choosing if the quality if work was similar to that of all the other lawns. However he seems to take no pride in maintenance and consistently does an extremely poor job and it is obvious that their house is the odd man out. This affects their direct neighbors the most as it detracts from the aesthetics of their property. We tried to change the rules to ameliorate this issue, but the wife threatened us with an antitrust suite and our attorneys advised us to back down on this issue.

The courts in most states seem to hold that covenants may not be amended to make them more restrictive or to impose new and unforeseen burdens on the existing property owners. Your attorney advised you well; too bad you refuse to listen to his advice.

Quote:

The thing that really concerns and bothers me, as it does the rest of the board, is the constant autowork/fabrication and the propensity of the husband to threaten people with gun violence. There is a reason we don't chose to live in inner city industrial areas. For me personally, at this point I would be pleased as punch if the fabrication work got scaled back a bit and if the husband's first response was not to brandish a firearm when we try to speak to him about their disruptive behavior. That man actually once told my husband that if he didn't get off his property or son won't grow up with a daddy. He aid this right in front of our 8 yearold.

Why does your husband believe he has a right to enter your neighbor's property and demand that the neighbor refrain from lawful, peaceful enjoyment of his property? What kind of irresponsible moron takes his 8-year-old along with him to criminally harass another homeowner? If I knew who you are I would contact Child Protective Services so they can terminate your parental rights.

If auto work and welding are causing a clean air issue, then it is no longer the lawful enjoyment of one's own property. If what OP is saying is true and the home owner is burning galvanizing than that would be a violation of both Texas and federal clean air laws.
These people sound out of control and if it is who I think they are, I sincerely hope OP and her board are willing to drop the issue or prepare themselves for no end to trouble, harassment, and general mischief.
Just my $0.02.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RobertB55 on 03/22/2017 6:50 AM

Speaking as a Texas P.E. myself I would like to add that complaining to the board about this man was absolutely the right thing to do. If this man is really a P.E. his first duty is to the public and he, along with the rest of us who poses a seal, must hold himself to a higher standard of good moral character. Furthermore the good moral character of a Texas Engineer is established both when he is behind his desk and when he is away from it. These are not my words by the way but words codified by the Texas Board of Professional Engineers and are read at the beginning of every meeting of the disciplinary committee.

A man who would brandish a firearm in a threatening manner is not demonstrating good moral character and he is not living up to his duty to the public.

Also, for those of you who are unaware, the Texas castle doctrine know as stand your ground does not give a homeowner the right to "blow someone's head off" and then point a gun at them in response to a person simply stepping into your garage, even a trespasser (although in the situation described by the OP it sounds like that intrusion would not even be legally considered a trespass ).

At best the home owner acted out of ignorance of the law (something which the PE board has used as grounds to deny or revoke a license ) at worst the home owner was knowingly acting in a criminal manner with the knowledge that his attorney wife would help him evade legal consequences (also something which licences have been denied or revoked for).

The OP previously stated that one of the people the engineer pulled a gun on, and perhaps the only such person, was cited by the police for criminal trespass. The OP gave no indication that the law enforcement agency cited the homeowner. There seems to be a major disconnect between your legal conclusions and those of the duly authorized law enforcement officers. I am sure that the local district prosecutor would welcome your advice since you are a P.E. and he is just an attorney. The prosecutor is awaiting your input.

In the absence of a criminal citation against the homeowner/engineer, there is little likelihood of action from the state board.

Quote:

Another thing, OP mentioned the smell of burning galvanizing, if this man is a civil engineer he should be aware that welding on and brazing galvanized steel releases toxic fumes. So I agree that the light hazard due to the arcs are of negligible danger but the combustion of zinc galvanize is a totally other matter. So OP has reason to want to stop this activity.

I doubt that the OP knows squat about whether the metals are galvanized, but automotive sheet metal is not likely to be so. In any event, the neighbor is working out in the open where any harmful gasses would escape into the atmosphere and be absorbed. But if the OP really wants to pursue this her first step should be to engage the services of a licensed professional who can evaluate "the dangers."

RobertB55 (Texas)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 03/22/2017 10:45 AM

Posted By RobertB55 on 03/22/2017 6:50 AM

Speaking as a Texas P.E. myself I would like to add that complaining to the board about this man was absolutely the right thing to do. If this man is really a P.E. his first duty is to the public and he, along with the rest of us who poses a seal, must hold himself to a higher standard of good moral character. Furthermore the good moral character of a Texas Engineer is established both when he is behind his desk and when he is away from it. These are not my words by the way but words codified by the Texas Board of Professional Engineers and are read at the beginning of every meeting of the disciplinary committee.

A man who would brandish a firearm in a threatening manner is not demonstrating good moral character and he is not living up to his duty to the public.

Also, for those of you who are unaware, the Texas castle doctrine know as stand your ground does not give a homeowner the right to "blow someone's head off" and then point a gun at them in response to a person simply stepping into your garage, even a trespasser (although in the situation described by the OP it sounds like that intrusion would not even be legally considered a trespass ).

At best the home owner acted out of ignorance of the law (something which the PE board has used as grounds to deny or revoke a license ) at worst the home owner was knowingly acting in a criminal manner with the knowledge that his attorney wife would help him evade legal consequences (also something which licences have been denied or revoked for).

The OP previously stated that one of the people the engineer pulled a gun on, and perhaps the only such person, was cited by the police for criminal trespass. The OP gave no indication that the law enforcement agency cited the homeowner. There seems to be a major disconnect between your legal conclusions and those of the duly authorized law enforcement officers. I am sure that the local district prosecutor would welcome your advice since you are a P.E. and he is just an attorney. The prosecutor is awaiting your input.

In the absence of a criminal citation against the homeowner/engineer, there is little likelihood of action from the state board.

Quote:

Another thing, OP mentioned the smell of burning galvanizing, if this man is a civil engineer he should be aware that welding on and brazing galvanized steel releases toxic fumes. So I agree that the light hazard due to the arcs are of negligible danger but the combustion of zinc galvanize is a totally other matter. So OP has reason to want to stop this activity.

I doubt that the OP knows squat about whether the metals are galvanized, but automotive sheet metal is not likely to be so. In any event, the neighbor is working out in the open where any harmful gasses would escape into the atmosphere and be absorbed. But if the OP really wants to pursue this her first step should be to engage the services of a licensed professional who can evaluate "the dangers."

I only responded based on the information presented by the OP and statements made by other posters. I like you have no more information than what the OP had presented. Please read and comprehend before you comment. I didn't come to any legal conclusions as you put it. If you read my comment carefully and the comment I referenced I am simply informing everyone that:
1) actions that may not necessarily affect work performance ARE in fact taken into consideration by the Texas Board of Professional Engineers when they determine to whether to award, deny, renew,or revoke a licence.
2) IF the incident occurred the way the OP described the judgment displayed by the man in question would be called into question by the Texas Board. That is all, I made no comment on whether if the incident occurred or not nor if the responding officers were correct or not in how they decided to issue citations. Furthermore, you ate incorrect to believe that the Texas Board is unlikely to take action in absence of a criminal citation. The Texas Board of Professional Engineers takes all claims of impropriety, and unethical behavior seriously and duly investigates all alleged incidents. Perhaps the board investigated and found no wrong doing, perhaps Acton was taken and said action didn't satisfy the OP or the original complainant. We don't know, the op does not elaborate on this.
So let me break down the essence of my post for you so you don't misunderstand again.
1) filing a complaint against an engineer for nonengineering issue is not wrong or out of line, especially if the complainant had a good faith belief that the engineer in question is displaying poor moral character.
2) misusing the Castle doctrine in order to harm another person is a demonstration of poor moral character therefore if things occurred the way OP described the complainant was in his/her right to file a complaint.

MichelleK5 (New York)
Posts: 161

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RobertB55 on 03/22/2017 11:15 AM

Posted By LarryB13 on 03/22/2017 10:45 AM

Posted By RobertB55 on 03/22/2017 6:50 AM

Speaking as a Texas P.E. myself I would like to add that complaining to the board about this man was absolutely the right thing to do. If this man is really a P.E. his first duty is to the public and he, along with the rest of us who poses a seal, must hold himself to a higher standard of good moral character. Furthermore the good moral character of a Texas Engineer is established both when he is behind his desk and when he is away from it. These are not my words by the way but words codified by the Texas Board of Professional Engineers and are read at the beginning of every meeting of the disciplinary committee.

A man who would brandish a firearm in a threatening manner is not demonstrating good moral character and he is not living up to his duty to the public.

Also, for those of you who are unaware, the Texas castle doctrine know as stand your ground does not give a homeowner the right to "blow someone's head off" and then point a gun at them in response to a person simply stepping into your garage, even a trespasser (although in the situation described by the OP it sounds like that intrusion would not even be legally considered a trespass ).

At best the home owner acted out of ignorance of the law (something which the PE board has used as grounds to deny or revoke a license ) at worst the home owner was knowingly acting in a criminal manner with the knowledge that his attorney wife would help him evade legal consequences (also something which licences have been denied or revoked for).

The OP previously stated that one of the people the engineer pulled a gun on, and perhaps the only such person, was cited by the police for criminal trespass. The OP gave no indication that the law enforcement agency cited the homeowner. There seems to be a major disconnect between your legal conclusions and those of the duly authorized law enforcement officers. I am sure that the local district prosecutor would welcome your advice since you are a P.E. and he is just an attorney. The prosecutor is awaiting your input.

In the absence of a criminal citation against the homeowner/engineer, there is little likelihood of action from the state board.

Quote:

Another thing, OP mentioned the smell of burning galvanizing, if this man is a civil engineer he should be aware that welding on and brazing galvanized steel releases toxic fumes. So I agree that the light hazard due to the arcs are of negligible danger but the combustion of zinc galvanize is a totally other matter. So OP has reason to want to stop this activity.

I doubt that the OP knows squat about whether the metals are galvanized, but automotive sheet metal is not likely to be so. In any event, the neighbor is working out in the open where any harmful gasses would escape into the atmosphere and be absorbed. But if the OP really wants to pursue this her first step should be to engage the services of a licensed professional who can evaluate "the dangers."

I only responded based on the information presented by the OP and statements made by other posters. I like you have no more information than what the OP had presented. Please read and comprehend before you comment. I didn't come to any legal conclusions as you put it. If you read my comment carefully and the comment I referenced I am simply informing everyone that:
1) actions that may not necessarily affect work performance ARE in fact taken into consideration by the Texas Board of Professional Engineers when they determine to whether to award, deny, renew,or revoke a licence.
2) IF the incident occurred the way the OP described the judgment displayed by the man in question would be called into question by the Texas Board. That is all, I made no comment on whether if the incident occurred or not nor if the responding officers were correct or not in how they decided to issue citations. Furthermore, you ate incorrect to believe that the Texas Board is unlikely to take action in absence of a criminal citation. The Texas Board of Professional Engineers takes all claims of impropriety, and unethical behavior seriously and duly investigates all alleged incidents. Perhaps the board investigated and found no wrong doing, perhaps Acton was taken and said action didn't satisfy the OP or the original complainant. We don't know, the op does not elaborate on this.
So let me break down the essence of my post for you so you don't misunderstand again.
1) filing a complaint against an engineer for nonengineering issue is not wrong or out of line, especially if the complainant had a good faith belief that the engineer in question is displaying poor moral character.
2) misusing the Castle doctrine in order to harm another person is a demonstration of poor moral character therefore if things occurred the way OP described the complainant was in his/her right to file a complaint.

The op was not there for either incident. Not the gun, nor when a neighbor called the board. You seem to want to believe her description of events, even though no action was taken against the husband in either case. I'm betting there are huge exaggerations going on here. But what do I know- other than they keep losing their case in court.

Based on the comments you've made, about how you "think you know who these terrible neighbors are", you're either part of this HOA, or know Diana. Whichever it is, you have a bias in this. Personally, I'll side with those that have made the determination that the neighbors are not doing anything wrong, instead of an HOA who's trying to enforce rules that don't even exist.

And Diane, you and your board better tread very carefully about insisting anyone decorate for any holiday. Had it been me, I would have taken you to court just to prove a point. My attorney lives to litigate.

RobertB55 (Texas)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichelleK5 on 03/22/2017 11:58 AM

Posted By RobertB55 on 03/22/2017 11:15 AM

Posted By LarryB13 on 03/22/2017 10:45 AM

Posted By RobertB55 on 03/22/2017 6:50 AM

Speaking as a Texas P.E. myself I would like to add that complaining to the board about this man was absolutely the right thing to do. If this man is really a P.E. his first duty is to the public and he, along with the rest of us who poses a seal, must hold himself to a higher standard of good moral character. Furthermore the good moral character of a Texas Engineer is established both when he is behind his desk and when he is away from it. These are not my words by the way but words codified by the Texas Board of Professional Engineers and are read at the beginning of every meeting of the disciplinary committee.

A man who would brandish a firearm in a threatening manner is not demonstrating good moral character and he is not living up to his duty to the public.

Also, for those of you who are unaware, the Texas castle doctrine know as stand your ground does not give a homeowner the right to "blow someone's head off" and then point a gun at them in response to a person simply stepping into your garage, even a trespasser (although in the situation described by the OP it sounds like that intrusion would not even be legally considered a trespass ).

At best the home owner acted out of ignorance of the law (something which the PE board has used as grounds to deny or revoke a license ) at worst the home owner was knowingly acting in a criminal manner with the knowledge that his attorney wife would help him evade legal consequences (also something which licences have been denied or revoked for).

The OP previously stated that one of the people the engineer pulled a gun on, and perhaps the only such person, was cited by the police for criminal trespass. The OP gave no indication that the law enforcement agency cited the homeowner. There seems to be a major disconnect between your legal conclusions and those of the duly authorized law enforcement officers. I am sure that the local district prosecutor would welcome your advice since you are a P.E. and he is just an attorney. The prosecutor is awaiting your input.

In the absence of a criminal citation against the homeowner/engineer, there is little likelihood of action from the state board.

Quote:

Another thing, OP mentioned the smell of burning galvanizing, if this man is a civil engineer he should be aware that welding on and brazing galvanized steel releases toxic fumes. So I agree that the light hazard due to the arcs are of negligible danger but the combustion of zinc galvanize is a totally other matter. So OP has reason to want to stop this activity.

I doubt that the OP knows squat about whether the metals are galvanized, but automotive sheet metal is not likely to be so. In any event, the neighbor is working out in the open where any harmful gasses would escape into the atmosphere and be absorbed. But if the OP really wants to pursue this her first step should be to engage the services of a licensed professional who can evaluate "the dangers."

I only responded based on the information presented by the OP and statements made by other posters. I like you have no more information than what the OP had presented. Please read and comprehend before you comment. I didn't come to any legal conclusions as you put it. If you read my comment carefully and the comment I referenced I am simply informing everyone that:
1) actions that may not necessarily affect work performance ARE in fact taken into consideration by the Texas Board of Professional Engineers when they determine to whether to award, deny, renew,or revoke a licence.
2) IF the incident occurred the way the OP described the judgment displayed by the man in question would be called into question by the Texas Board. That is all, I made no comment on whether if the incident occurred or not nor if the responding officers were correct or not in how they decided to issue citations. Furthermore, you ate incorrect to believe that the Texas Board is unlikely to take action in absence of a criminal citation. The Texas Board of Professional Engineers takes all claims of impropriety, and unethical behavior seriously and duly investigates all alleged incidents. Perhaps the board investigated and found no wrong doing, perhaps Acton was taken and said action didn't satisfy the OP or the original complainant. We don't know, the op does not elaborate on this.
So let me break down the essence of my post for you so you don't misunderstand again.
1) filing a complaint against an engineer for nonengineering issue is not wrong or out of line, especially if the complainant had a good faith belief that the engineer in question is displaying poor moral character.
2) misusing the Castle doctrine in order to harm another person is a demonstration of poor moral character therefore if things occurred the way OP described the complainant was in his/her right to file a complaint.

The op was not there for either incident. Not the gun, nor when a neighbor called the board. You seem to want to believe her description of events, even though no action was taken against the husband in either case. I'm betting there are huge exaggerations going on here. But what do I know- other than they keep losing their case in court.

Based on the comments you've made, about how you "think you know who these terrible neighbors are", you're either part of this HOA, or know Diana. Whichever it is, you have a bias in this. Personally, I'll side with those that have made the determination that the neighbors are not doing anything wrong, instead of an HOA who's trying to enforce rules that don't even exist.

And Diane, you and your board better tread very carefully about insisting anyone decorate for any holiday. Had it been me, I would have taken you to court just to prove a point. My attorney lives to litigate.

I don't belong to that HOA nor do I know the OP.however if this person is who I think it is I can definitely see these things happening as described. I believe that I have worked with this man a few years ago and to put it lightly, he was not the easiest person to manage or work with. The Texas oilfield is a very very small world.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 03/22/2017 10:11 AM

Posted By DianaJ on 03/22/2017 7:49 AM
First, about the unwritten rules of the community, many of then are more about common courtesy and consideration (quiet hours and noautowork) for aesthetics (the Christmas lights thing and the lawn care service thing). I mention or unwritten rules more to give a sense of context about the community culture of our neighborhood. When I say we in my posts I am speaking from the point of view taken by our board at large and I may have not clearly delineated what my personal greviances towards these people as compared to those of the board at large. Personally the issue with the Christmas lights doesn't really register too high on my radar. It would be nice if we didn't have one solitary house completely dark when every one else is light up, but that is not something I personally would have gotten into a legal squabble over.

Neither you personally nor your association have a shred of a legal right to enforce unrecorded restrictions on how your neighbors may use their property. You should have searched for subdivision with more restrictions instead of purchasing a home in your current neighborhood.

Quote:

About them constantly being outside in the front yard on the weekends. For me persinally this is a minor agitation. I agree that they have a right to enjoy their property as we all do but they are very disruptive. They are either building something, working on vehicles or tailgating. It bothers me that this is a constant thing on the weekends. All the homes here have large back yards yet this couple thinks it appropriate to be always camped out in the front yard with their entourage.

Same answer.

Quote:

The lawn service issue, rates slightly higher for me. The reason we all use the same lawn service is because the lands and landscaping get done on the same day and in the same manner for each respective street. This makes the streets picture perfect and unforme. I would have been OK with the husband doing his own lawn or using a service of his choosing if the quality if work was similar to that of all the other lawns. However he seems to take no pride in maintenance and consistently does an extremely poor job and it is obvious that their house is the odd man out. This affects their direct neighbors the most as it detracts from the aesthetics of their property. We tried to change the rules to ameliorate this issue, but the wife threatened us with an antitrust suite and our attorneys advised us to back down on this issue.

The courts in most states seem to hold that covenants may not be amended to make them more restrictive or to impose new and unforeseen burdens on the existing property owners. Your attorney advised you well; too bad you refuse to listen to his advice.

Quote:

The thing that really concerns and bothers me, as it does the rest of the board, is the constant autowork/fabrication and the propensity of the husband to threaten people with gun violence. There is a reason we don't chose to live in inner city industrial areas. For me personally, at this point I would be pleased as punch if the fabrication work got scaled back a bit and if the husband's first response was not to brandish a firearm when we try to speak to him about their disruptive behavior. That man actually once told my husband that if he didn't get off his property or son won't grow up with a daddy. He aid this right in front of our 8 yearold.

Why does your husband believe he has a right to enter your neighbor's property and demand that the neighbor refrain from lawful, peaceful enjoyment of his property? What kind of irresponsible moron takes his 8-year-old along with him to criminally harass another homeowner? If I knew who you are I would contact Child Protective Services so they can terminate your parental rights.

DITTO DITTO DITTO

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

To be completely frank, Diana, it's become clear that what you and some others don't like is this couple's "lifestyle," which they enjoy in their front yard area instead of their back yard. You/others find their partying, etc., "tasteless."

I really don't see any solution to your discomfort unless your board can make a rule about certain kinds of work not being permitted in driveways or front yards I do think I've seen discussions in the past on this topic and I do think some HOAs restrict such activities.

Meantime y'al certainly should stay off their property.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

y'all

MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494

Posted:

Does it get like this, y'all?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crCqWK3SmRo

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

In order to give my best professional opinion of this issue, I'm going to need to see a picture of the bikini!

Disclaimer: I'm not a professional. I'm just a president of an HOA.

If my fellow board members attacked a fellow neighbor's lifestyle as you and yours have, I'd call for action against them.

Everything you're doing is just as wrong as me asking to see a picture of his wife.

You can only enforce the rules. There is no such thing as "unwritten rules". For a long time you had the same "Beaver Cleaver" type neighbors and that has changed.

I suggest you get over there and work on your tan with her. Have your husband take a 12 pack of the husbands favorite beer over and hang out. Imagine what you can learn from an engineer! You may decide to convert your swinging gates into auto opening/closing, or maybe just make that garage door quieter.

Diane- You're doing it wrong. Be a neighbor first. Board member second. Stop trying to push your lifestyle on others.

I mean no disrespect to you. Good luck.

DianaJ (Texas)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DouglasM6 on 03/23/2017 7:45 AM
In order to give my best professional opinion of this issue, I'm going to need to see a picture of the bikini!

Disclaimer: I'm not a professional. I'm just a president of an HOA.

If my fellow board members attacked a fellow neighbor's lifestyle as you and yours have, I'd call for action against them.

Everything you're doing is just as wrong as me asking to see a picture of his wife.

You can only enforce the rules. There is no such thing as "unwritten rules". For a long time you had the same "Beaver Cleaver" type neighbors and that has changed.

I suggest you get over there and work on your tan with her. Have your husband take a 12 pack of the husbands favorite beer over and hang out. Imagine what you can learn from an engineer! You may decide to convert your swinging gates into auto opening/closing, or maybe just make that garage door quieter.

Diane- You're doing it wrong. Be a neighbor first. Board member second. Stop trying to push your lifestyle on others.

I mean no disrespect to you. Good luck.

To be very honest we have tried being neighborly, we have tried ignoring them, and our last resort was legal action. Every weekend it is like we are living next to an industrial salvage yard with the notable exception that the junk yard dog is also the proprietor. We try to ignore it as best we can and we have been since we ran out of legal recourse. What promoted me to solicit advice from other HOA involved people is that two weeks ago one of our inspectors noticed those two built a vehicle gate into their fence and disguised it as regular fence panels. This IS against or written rules as it is against the rules to drive onto our through the lawns. We sent them a letter to inform them to fix the issue but they responded with an attorney letter on title block from the wife's lawfirm back claiming that the gate was there before they moved in and we would need to submit evidence to the contrary. We know they are lying but there is nothing we can do. Our attorney told us that all we can do is if we ever have proof that they have driven a vehicle onto their lawn,we can send them a letter asking them to move it within 2weeks and if they fail to move the vehicle within 2 weeks then we can have it towed. As for them using their lawn as a vehicle ingress and egress there is no enforcement mechanism we can employ asides from asking them nicely each time we see them do it, despite this being prohibited by our CC&R's. This new development has all of us worried because we have no idea what he plans to bring in through those gates.