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KarenC22 (Florida)
Posts: 18
Posted:
It was just revealed this evening that the Board Secretary had experienced a termite infestation sometime ago. In a past discussion with the property manager (which had been private/one on one at that time), she claims he told her to pay for extermination and termite damage herself and to not tell anyone about the problem. She complied with that request. Now, there are several homes infested and it is a large problem (we are in townhomes with wood second stories and wood siding).

As the problem is now too large to contain, it was discussed at a heavily attended meeting during which the property manager told members the HOA would, of course, take care of extermination and an inspection per our documents.

My question for the group is with regard to the property manager and board member not disclosing this issue which seemed to have occurred months ago, if not a year ago. We live in multi-story homes and termite damage could have posed a physical danger and certainly created a larger problem as many residents are now infested. It seems like a derelection in duty and ethics on the part of both the licensed manager and the board member to not address or disclose this issue to the residents they serve. Comments and suggestions?

All the best,
Kay
KarenC22 (Florida)
Posts: 18
Posted:
I should have made it clear that the revelation of the agreement to keep the termites a secret occurred when the secretary left the meeting crying, angry that there was agreement to pay for others' termite problems after she had paid for her own and kept the issue quiet.

All the best,
Kay
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
The fact that they chose not to disclose probably didn't change anything since the issue was taken care of.

BTW - the secretary should submit her bill to the Association to be reimbursed since the governing docs specify that the issue is the Associations responsibility.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
It doesn't make sense to me that the Secretary - or any owner for that matter - would listen to a property manager saying, "fix it yourself and keep your mouth shut". Was that a request or a demand?

Dereliction of duty on the part of the PM? Not unless there's something in the contract language that puts him on the hook.

Dereliction of duty on the part of the Secretary? Not unless directors or officers are expected to be termite experts. Would it have helped? Possibly, but I see no duty to say anything to anyone else. She absolutely should file for reimbursement of her expenses if the association is picking up the tab for everyone else's.

Why wasn't the association doing regular inspections if it's responsible to now fix the damage caused by the termites? What do the documents say about termites, exactly?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Not all HOA's are responsible for pest control. It's usually viewed as the owner's responsibility. However, for those who do have it built into their HOA to be responsible, what does it define? It seems if the HOA was responsible this whole time then a preventative and NOT reactive program would have been in place. Was there not continuous pest control prior to this?

We had a termite issue. The cause was the mulch and wood retaining walls around the homes. We had to tell people NOT to use certain types of mulches. Cyprus or Cedar did not "feed" the termites as readily. Plus we had some who wanted to remove the rail road tie walls and replace them with brick. A pest expert told us that would drive the termites TO the homes! The termites would go to the wood in the homes.

Our HOA was NOT responsible for pest control or damage. Unless the majority of owners agree they wanted their money to go toward that practice, you were on your own.

Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Karen

What type construction is your association?

If standalone homes then the owner would be responsible for inspection and treatment. If any type shared building the association should be responsible for inspection and treatment.

If a shared building, then I say your BOD dropped the ball if no inspection and a report back to them.

KarenC22 (Florida)
Posts: 18
Posted:
They are connected townhomes with a common space between first and second floors. There is no way for one owner to exterminate for the entire building and outer termite inspection and protection is in our documents. Our BOD has not been doing this. All they do is tow cars.

All the best,
Kay
KarenC22 (Florida)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Thanks for the input.

As a homeowner, I would think the board has a duty to address this problem since it is in the documents as their duty and to also tell the homeowners in a meeting. The perspective that BOD does not have to report community-wide problems to homeowners is very alamring and I would like to get some legal confirmation on that. If we had contamination in groundwater or something else, could they also conspire not to tell us? If this is the case, I think we need more homeowner related advocacy in HOA law. I do agree she should submit her bill.

As a matter of perspective on the BOD and members, most people move in to these places thinking the property manager is their landlord of sorts and, in the case of my HOA, don't even know we have a BOD. We don't get to vote on our board and the meetings are held in a 55+ building where there is no parking, so no one goes to the meetings. They just send a proxy that says sign so the meeting can be held and in small print it says you are giving the president the right to vote for you. People sign and send it back so we've had the same board or 15 years who do whatever they want and work more like a gang than an HOA. The secretary was one person who was invited to serve by the president, so they just ask her to sign stuff when they need it. She has no idea what being a board member is about because our board does not function as it's supposed to.

All the best,
Kay
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenC22 on 03/21/2017 6:59 AM
If we had contamination in groundwater or something else, could they also conspire not to tell us? If this is the case, I think we need more homeowner related advocacy in HOA law.

How would the board come to know about groundwater contamination before anyone else? The same with termites. If there's any failure on the board's part it might be in failing to hire someone to do regular termite inspections. It's hard to say without knowing the exact language in your documents. How are inspection and detection, extermination and damage repair supposed to be handled? If the board hired someone to inspect for termites and he found them, then I agree the board should let the owners know. If the board didn't hire anyone to check, does that alone violate something in the documents? I'm purposefully being picky about all this because simply asserting, "Someone on the board knew about this and should have said something!" isn't really going to fly without a whole lot more in the way of details to back it up. Your complaint needs to be much more specific.

You're quite right about the legislature and howmeowners' rights with regard to HOAs and condos. Don't hold your breath. There are documented cases of directors and officers embezzling significant dollars from their associations and somehow that is treated, in Florida, as not a crime but a civil matter. Homeowners' rights aren't even on the lawmakers' radar these days. Just watch the reform bills die in committee year after year after year. Call your state reps and senators and ask them to support reform legislation (that will make 2 of us).

Quote:
Posted By KarenC22 on 03/21/2017 6:59 AM
As a matter of perspective on the BOD and members, most people move in to these places thinking the property manager is their landlord of sorts and, in the case of my HOA, don't even know we have a BOD. We don't get to vote on our board and the meetings are held in a 55+ building where there is no parking, so no one goes to the meetings. They just send a proxy that says sign so the meeting can be held and in small print it says you are giving the president the right to vote for you. People sign and send it back so we've had the same board or 15 years who do whatever they want and work more like a gang than an HOA. The secretary was one person who was invited to serve by the president, so they just ask her to sign stuff when they need it. She has no idea what being a board member is about because our board does not function as it's supposed to.

Well, none of that is good. I have found in my extremely small sample size here in my HOA that people who move in coming from mobile home parks tend to have the mindset that the HOA is like their landlord. That's not a healthy mindset to have.

How many homes are in your association and how many do you think would be interested in change? It sounds like your association has been managed by a board that went rogue years ago. You'll need the help of as many neighbors as you can find to help you get out of the mess.

At annual meeting time, any owner can solicit proxies from other owners; you don't need to kowtow to the proxy the board wants you to sign. The statute says that both board and members meetings must be held at a location that's accessible to a handicapped person IF REQUESTED. Get a few people to request that in writing. Get an attorney for a couple of hundred dollars to write a letter to the board suggesting that their choice of meeting location - with no parking - is preventing some members from exercising their RIGHT (again, in the FS 720 statute) to attend the meeting.

There are many things you can do but they will require work and it's essential you have other owners who share your desire for change. If the termite repair bill is going to be large and result in a special assessment, that sounds like the ideal time to gather support from other owners to make some changes. Good luck to you.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I don’t know what your secretary was thinking – I live in a townhouse and when I found a nest of yellow jackets trying to set up shop in my garage, I told my property manager (and I was Board treasure at the time). The problem was fixed the next day and a few weeks later, I told the board about it. We noted there had been occasional problems like this and it led to us running a blurb in the newsletter about encouraging people to report this stuff immediately and the signs of possible infestation they should look for.

Having said that, I’m not sure I believe the secretary’s account of what the property manager said (something about that story sends off my BS meter). If it is true and the secretary can prove it, the property manager was out of line. The board may want to speak to the property manager AND his/her supervisor to sort this out – if this actually happened, I’d ask for another property manager. As for the board member, I hope your homeowners seriously consider voting this person out in your next election. In the meantime, the rest of the board may want to have an executive session to talk to her and censure her.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 03/21/2017 12:44 PM
I’m not sure I believe the secretary’s account of what the property manager said

I had the same thought.
KarenC22 (Florida)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Thanks for that perspective. Good ideas to think about.

There was a termite contract previous to 2009 but it ceased before that time. The Board and PM agree that the outside termite control is indicated in the documents. By not checking, disclosing the problem last year, or doing anything to address it--we now have several people affected.

All the best,
Kay
KarenC22 (Florida)
Posts: 18
Posted:
We have five homes in one building and there is an open space between the first and second floors that is common to all five homes. We have rats living in there and now termites as well.

All the best,
Kay
KarenC22 (Florida)
Posts: 18
Posted:
The BOD looks to the PM for advice and does what he tells them to do. As far as I know, none of them have been willing to take the training and get certified as a FL HOA BOD. They will not agree to have a lawyer attend our meetings, which would be of great help with rules of order, voting, rules, etc. For example, at one time they told me I was not allowed to record meetings which is a distinct violation of the law. Once, they allowed voting on torn off pieces of paper without checking if people in the meeting were owners or roommates, etc., in arrears, etc. They also have put up signs that were discriminatory and refused to take them down until HUD got involved. Etc., etc. They have not taken the job seriously and largely argue at annual meetings and then try very hard to tow cars of people they don't like. Recently, they began tearing down a wall without getting a survey and then once it was 1/4 half re-build realized it didn't belong to us. We keep having to pay for this stuff. This is a low income neighborhood and I think people are afraid of getting in trouble and they don't want to get involved.

All the best,
Kay
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
You need to discuss with a pest control expert in your area. In some areas Termites can cause a lot of damage in a short period of time. In other areas Termites can potentially take many years to cause same amount of damage. Depends on your area of country, type of Termites, length of time, etc. There is slight issue of if one unit had issue and reported should have been disclosed at that time to other units so they could themselves, if so choose, take better actions to protect their property.

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