What kinds of homeowner resolutions is the Board suppose to handle

JK7 (California)
Posts: 22

Posted:

My understanding of homeowner resolution cases is that the Board represents the Homeowners as a whole with respect to the entire property and so the kinds of homeowner resolutions the Board deals with deals with the entire Association, the collective interests of the unit owner.

The kinds of homeowner resolution that the Board does not get into are quibbles between only two owners. Their problem does not affect the entire association, that is, the collective interests of the unit owners.

Am I wrong about this? If I am wrong, is there some kind of code that might say that we do have to get involved in these kinds of small quibbles?

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT

and

WELL SAID

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JK7 on 03/19/2017 8:24 AM
My understanding of homeowner resolution cases is that the Board represents the Homeowners as a whole with respect to the entire property and so the kinds of homeowner resolutions the Board deals with deals with the entire Association, the collective interests of the unit owner.

The kinds of homeowner resolution that the Board does not get into are quibbles between only two owners. Their problem does not affect the entire association, that is, the collective interests of the unit owners.

Am I wrong about this? If I am wrong, is there some kind of code that might say that we do have to get involved in these kinds of small quibbles?

I would amend your statement to say that the board does not get involved until there is a formal complaint of a covenants violation or it is clear that a covenant is being violated. The latest from a HOA attorney I respect is a board's failure to enforce the covenants holds the HOA out to liability as much as it does any member violating the covenants. This is case law, usually in the governing documents in so many words, and sometimes in statute.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'm with Augustin. If A wants next door neighbor, B, to stop letting his dogs off leash and the covenants or rules say dogs must be on leash, the Board, if there's evidence B IS breaking the rules, should follow whatever procedures your state has and follow them.

Just because the rules violation only disturbs one Owner or 3 or 10 does not mean the Board should not enforce the rules. But the activity in violation must be corroborated by someone neutral or by film, recording, etc.

I believe, JK, you mean homeowner discipline (vs "resolution") cases

JK7 (California)
Posts: 22

Posted:

I really do mean homeowner resolution. One owner is complaining about the foot noise from the unit above him.

There seems to be no violation of any kind from the unit above. They are trying to walk as quietly as possible, or so they say.

I'd like to prevent our Management Company handing over trivial cases like this to the board. We've got enough to do.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Well there are some cases where this is a board issue. That being that the upstairs neighbor installed flooring or modified it from it's original sound proofing qualities. Meaning that an owner installed wood flooring versus carpeting. This can fall into the Board's responsibility to enforce any such rule that says one can not install such materials in an above 1st floor dwelling.

Otherwise, these situations are of the neighborly kind...

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'm with Melissa her. Unless the upstairs person did seething g against your covenants OR the downstairs neighbor have evidence of too mud footfall noise above, the Board should not be involved.

MichelleK5 (New York)
Posts: 161

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/19/2017 9:55 AM
I'm with Augustin. If A wants next door neighbor, B, to stop letting his dogs off leash and the covenants or rules say dogs must be on leash, the Board, if there's evidence B IS breaking the rules, should follow whatever procedures your state has and follow them.

Just because the rules violation only disturbs one Owner or 3 or 10 does not mean the Board should not enforce the rules. But the activity in violation must be corroborated by someone neutral or by film, recording, etc.

I believe, JK, you mean homeowner discipline (vs "resolution") cases

Kerry, but that would only apply to dogs being off leash in common areas. In cases of detached homes where you own the property, this wouldn't apply. Neighbors can complain all they want, but if the rules only mention common areas, the board should not get involved.

Only bringing this up because it's a sore spot for me (i was in a situation where I was told my dogs had to be kept on-leash, but they were incorrect.)

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

It depends on what the documents says whether off leash in a common area, or off leash anywhere outside is a violation. It was only an example of how a violation could only affect one neighbor but still be a HOA/board issue. Other examples could be all kinds of noise nuisances.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichelleK5 on 03/20/2017 6:10 AM

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/19/2017 9:55 AM
I'm with Augustin. If A wants next door neighbor, B, to stop letting his dogs off leash and the covenants or rules say dogs must be on leash, the Board, if there's evidence B IS breaking the rules, should follow whatever procedures your state has and follow them.

Just because the rules violation only disturbs one Owner or 3 or 10 does not mean the Board should not enforce the rules. But the activity in violation must be corroborated by someone neutral or by film, recording, etc.

I believe, JK, you mean homeowner discipline (vs "resolution") cases

Kerry, but that would only apply to dogs being off leash in common areas. In cases of detached homes where you own the property, this wouldn't apply. Neighbors can complain all they want, but if the rules only mention common areas, the board should not get involved.

Only bringing this up because it's a sore spot for me (i was in a situation where I was told my dogs had to be kept on-leash, but they were incorrect.)

My personal opinion is this is a stupid item to have in any documents. Virtually ALL local governments have this as an ordinance and if the HOA does not have or regulate ... the board when have any complaint can smile and nicely state "we do not regulate pets ... if you have an issue here is the phone number for the local animal control". If the HOA regulates and a dog NOT on a leash bites someone ... care to guess who will have probable legal responsibility and possible lawsuit?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Dogs off-leash isn't the topic here, but I assure you, Janet, that in gated urban HOAs in my city, all have rules that dogs must be on leash or under control of their caregivers at all times due to elevators, hallways, small exterior areas. We also have in our Rules & Regs that animal control will be notified if a dog is seen off leash.

I know of no residents here who think the rule is stupid.

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JanetB2 on 03/22/2017 10:21 PM

Posted By MichelleK5 on 03/20/2017 6:10 AM

My personal opinion is this is a stupid item to have in any documents. Virtually ALL local governments have this as an ordinance and if the HOA does not have or regulate ... the board when have any complaint can smile and nicely state "we do not regulate pets ... if you have an issue here is the phone number for the local animal control". If the HOA regulates and a dog NOT on a leash bites someone ... care to guess who will have probable legal responsibility and possible lawsuit?

This is exactly how we do it. ^^

If there's an ordinance on the books already, we just tell the complainer to contact the county. We do have verbiage on the number of pets allowed.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/23/2017 7:35 AM
Dogs off-leash isn't the topic here, but I assure you, Janet, that in gated urban HOAs in my city, all have rules that dogs must be on leash or under control of their caregivers at all times due to elevators, hallways, small exterior areas. We also have in our Rules & Regs that animal control will be notified if a dog is seen off leash.

I know of no residents here who think the rule is stupid.

We have similar problems and have been told in no uncertain terms by the county animal control people that since off-leash violations here occur on private property, and since the association has a board of directors able to enforce its rules & regulations, that they - the county - will not come onto the property to observe or cite anyone for violating the county's leash law ordinances. One exact quote, "we have problems with vicious dogs running loose all over the county and we're not going to waste time on a few tiny dogs running around on private property off-leash".

I suggested writing a letter to the county attorney asking about this but so far no enthusiasm for moving that ball forward. It's easier to sit back and complain.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 03/23/2017 2:47 PM

We have similar problems and have been told in no uncertain terms by the county animal control people that since off-leash violations here occur on private property, and since the association has a board of directors able to enforce its rules & regulations, that they - the county - will not come onto the property to observe or cite anyone for violating the county's leash law ordinances. One exact quote, "we have problems with vicious dogs running loose all over the county and we're not going to waste time on a few tiny dogs running around on private property off-leash".

I suggested writing a letter to the county attorney asking about this but so far no enthusiasm for moving that ball forward. It's easier to sit back and complain.

LOL ... First question here when you call is ... Do you have an HOA? Second question will be ... Do you have a leash regulation in your CCR's and regulate pets? If the answer to that second question is Yes they will state it is an HOA issue. If the answer is No they will address the issue themselves.

When the HOA meets or exceeds local regulations ... the HOA takes on the legal responsibility and liability to handle. Local governments love HOA's who are willing to take on liability by exceeding their regulations and the requirement to handle.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JK7 on 03/19/2017 8:24 AM
My understanding of homeowner resolution cases is that the Board represents the Homeowners as a whole with respect to the entire property and so the kinds of homeowner resolutions the Board deals with deals with the entire Association, the collective interests of the unit owner.

The kinds of homeowner resolution that the Board does not get into are quibbles between only two owners. Their problem does not affect the entire association, that is, the collective interests of the unit owners.

Am I wrong about this? If I am wrong, is there some kind of code that might say that we do have to get involved in these kinds of small quibbles?

JK ... I agree with Melissa and others. Unless an owner is in violation of the governing documents such as potentially putting in a wood floor or tile in an area that was previously carpet and thereby increasing their noise level then potentially it should be between the neighbors. The neighbor complaining potentially would need to prove excessive noise level. Some people new to condo type living may not grasp the fact that you will have some noise from your surrounding neighbors to some extent. The complainer if continues can maybe pay to have noise metering done if they still believe noise is excessive as that to some extent needs to be proved.