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MichaelB32 (California)
Posts: 141
Posted:
The update to Civid Code 4775 (http://www.davis-stirling.com/Main-Index/Statutes/Civil-Code-4775) that took effect on January 1, 2017, transfers ownership of “exclusive user common areas (EUCA)” from the HOA to the homeowner. I have a dilemma as to what the Architectural Committee can approve and what authority we can use when asking the homeowner to “return the unit to its original condition” when remodeling the the former EUCA.”

History
———

Recently a new owner of a 3 bedroom upstairs unit relocated the “crawl space entrance” from the “walk-in closet” to “laundry room” He also open up a an exiting “coat closet” to allow a pulldown stairs to the attic from the “laundry room” to have access from the hallway. In the attic he reinforced the flooring, installed insulation and drywall, install recess lighting, rerouted/replaced ductwork and install new electrical receptacles. He also pieced to outside perimeter with new dryer vent duct and vent ducts around the existing attic louver vents to improve the efficiency to outside world. This attic space is about 200 square feet and one can easily stand up in it. He intends to put attic fans over the attic louver vents to make the space cooler.

Code Enforcement
————————-

Non of this work was accomplished with City permits or permission of the HOA Architectural Committee. We stop this work by Code enforcement, where City Code (http://harbourvistanews.com/PlanningRemodeling/PDF/useOfAtticSpace.pdf) specifically applies for attic spaces. The drywall will have to be removed, floors must remain unfinished, only one light is allowed. The City levied additional fees because work was performed without permits. IT should be noted that the work was top rated and the owner is intending to make this unit a rental.

Architectural Committee
———————————

At the Architectural Committee Meeting, we approved the remodeling as long as he meets City code. We even approved the the piercing to the outside walls if he painted them. But we asked him to put the “attic crawl space entrance” back to the “walk in closet”. I feel returning the “crawl space entrance” to its original condition is “Arbitrary and Conspicuous” and the Architectural committee need to retract this. The Committee’s reason is to make it difficult for a resident to access the attic. I do not think this is on solid ground as a reason. Being the spokesperson for the Architectural Committee, this is a difficult place to be in without appearing heavy handed.

Have any of you share your experiences with a similar issue and any advice would be appreciated?

Michael Barto
[email protected]
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
1. As a member of your Architectural Committee, Michael, you & the other members AND your board need to have a through understanding of the revision to Civ. Code. 4775. Your current understanding is incorrect.

2. What does the change have to do with an Owner ignoring your HOA's requirement AND also refusing to get the proper building permits. It does not matter that this work is "top rated."

3. It could matter if your HOA consists of single family homes that prohibit him having a rental. The rental very well may oppose your local zoning ordinances too.

4. The exterior changes are controlled by the HOA and it has every right to turn down his new dryer termination point, etc.

5. The interior doorway changes, ladder, etc., also are up to your HOA. Obviously the committee doe not want the attic to be a rental and there may be structural integrity issues too. IMO, he's lucky your committee is permitting him to do anything structural.

In CA, if he doesn't like the ARC decision, he may appeal to the Board.
MichaelB32 (California)
Posts: 141
Posted:
More than 55% percent of my Association are rentals. We have a booming real estate market for investors. The units are cheap (the land lease expires in 2041), and with cash only which seems to be the norm, return on investment is very high almost 10% to 12%. We have no restriction for rentals. The owner is a real estate attorney and owns a property management company. This owner also has one more property in our complex (a rental) and he owns 20% of another Association around the corner from us. He has taken the City to Court for "Arbitrary and Conspicuous and won. And our HOA spend approximately $120,000 for one homeowner that wanted to live her on a case "did not asked for permission" whose settlement added only $30,000 to the HOA. Our HOA runs an operating deficit of 9% every month.


Michael Barto
[email protected]
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I was asking, Michael, if your docent permit owners to convert single family home into two or more rental units.

Otherwise, I'd say most of your reply is irrelevant. Your ARC & board should not care one bit about his income, other properties owned, profession, etc. And, btw, real estate attorneys and HOA attorneys are two very different professions. You just need to adhere to your documents.

You have written "arbitrary & conspicuous" many time in your previous posts: the word is "capricious."
MichaelB32 (California)
Posts: 141
Posted:
The whole condo is a rental. We do not allow sub leasing. He is renting a three bedroom condo. Our CC&R' do not preclude this (Circa 1980).

Michael Barto
[email protected]
MichaelB32 (California)
Posts: 141
Posted:
OK, I see the misunderstanding, because we do not think that way. The member cannot rent just a space.He can only rent a unit in its entirety. That is what the CC&R's state. He want to use the space for ant 'attic" only so he says. Under City Code that all it can be used for. Not for a bedroom, off, sewing room, man cave, dance room (i wish). If he meets building code it is an attic. He cannot sublease any part of the condo, only rent the entire condo.

But we are not on message, the Architectural Committee is asking that the owner return the attic "crawl space entrance" to its original location. I wanted to know if that is or is not "Arbitrary and Conspicuous". You seem to tell me that the inside of the condo including the attic, if any change to the floor plan entry or exit doors not exposed to the outside and not affecting an structural engineering, common area pass through is still under the control of the Architectural Committee. And therefore the Architectural Committee decision it is not Arbitrary and Conspicuous when it asks the homeowner to return the attic entry to the old location because old location makes the attic space (which is now classified as the owner condo property (under Civid Code 4775) more difficult to use. Is that what you are saying???

Michael Barto
[email protected]
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
A safety question? Do you have a "Fire wall" in this attic area? Does the attic connect to other units? This seems to be a potential fire hazard if you ask me. Besides City Codes I would check fire ones as well...

Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Michael

It sounds like the horse is out of the barn here. He has made changes without city permits and without ARC approval. It is almost like your ARC is blessing the project (including structural/electrical/ventilation changes) and this does not address the "holes" he has punctured for the vents and all the ARC is asking that he relocate the access panel.

I think your ARC has more problems then a relocated access panel.

My initial blush would be a cease and desist order until a city inspection/permit plus an inspection by an association hired engineer as to the integrity of the building/roof.

MichaelB32 (California)
Posts: 141
Posted:
We are spending too much on this structural issues of condo attic . FYI Our City enforces the firewalls between condos. There is one in this attic completely finished. If it needs to be touched, City code will be enforced. Now can we go back to why the Committees decision to put the "crawlspace back to its original location is not Arbitrary and Conspicuous or is it?

Michael Barto
[email protected]
MichaelB32 (California)
Posts: 141
Posted:
The City put a stop work on the unit by my request. The owner is required to meet City Building code and have inspection. He cannot continue wit his work unless the City approves it. Also, the City is says they will not approve anything until he has permission from the ACR. He is stop right now. Can we go back to the Arbitrary and Conspicuous decision where the Civid Code 4775 gives him the whole space as part of his condo and requirement s of Davis-Stirling with a denial and what are non-Arbitrary and Conspicuous reason should be?

Michael Barto
[email protected]
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494
Posted:
Chances are this is all moot. Attic spaces are normally framed merely as part ot f the roof structure and to hold up the drywall. To make a floor sutiable for walking (or any living space use) will likely require up-sizing every joist.

There will also probably be ceiling height issues in the newly created space, and since you've now made a three story house in one that was formerly two stories, there might be zoning issues. The added weight may also impact the strucure and foundations below.

Before you get too worried, let his hired engineer work him over.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelB32 on 03/17/2017 9:25 PM
Also, the City is says they will not approve anything until he has permission from the ACR.

I kind of doubt that. Most building codes are legally prohibited from enforcing anything other than adopted codes and zoning. They certainly don't want to get in the middle of a HOA fight. If for example a set of submitted plans call for red paint on the finish schedule, and the ACR throws a fit, the Building department doesn't want to be involved. Beyond legally prescribed zoning, structural, safety, life and energy codes, anything else is a civil matter.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Then is this correct?

the only issue between your ACR & the Owner is your requirement to put the crawlspace back the way it was? You personally think it's "arbitrary & conspicuous [sic]" Please note the word is "capricious" and look it up. Now....what are YOUR reasons for thinking your Committee's decision is arbitrary & capricious"?

How can this be arbitrary & capricious if it only seeks a return it to the original condition?

As I stated in my first reply, your interpretation of the new Civ. Code 4775 is incorrect. Read it again. I think you'll find that the HOA still has authority over these exclusive use common areas. The Civ. Code tries to clarify who maintains them. And that must rely on each HOA's CC&Rs. I don't have time now to read it carefully but might later.

MichaelB32 (California)
Posts: 141
Posted:
Oh, my spell checker screw this up. I mean "Arbitrary and Capricious" as defined by Davis Sterling.

http://www.davis-stirling.com/Main-Index/Arbitrary-Capricious.

Our ARC wants to impose a hardship on this owner I think is a whim to prevent him from improving access to his attic. He is responsible for his attic (Civil Code 4775) in which he has already added flooring and improved the floor supports. We had approved this already. We have let the City to enforce the engineering and building code. He does have to meet this City Code:

http://www.huntingtonbeachca.gov/files/users/building_and_safety/PDF%20Documents/Attic%20Storage%20Policy%20PDF.pdf

which is very restrictive.

Also our Architectural Guidelines state:

A. Scope of Review – The ARC’s review and approval or disapproval of proposed plans shall be based solely on aesthetic considerations and the overall benefit or detriment to the community. The ARC’s review and approval or disapproval of proposed plans shall not be made from the standpoint of structural safety or conformance with building or other codes or requirements.

Which kinds of takes us off the hook for so many things. But we do need to provide a reason if we ask him to relocate the "crawl space entrance" to its original location. Our reason right now is to prevent him from improving the access to attic that is internal only to his unit. "Arbitrary and Capricious?". The only way our Charter can support this restriction him is to prove that relocating the attic entrance is "detriment to the community". Fat chance.

By the way I really appreciate your comments. I obviously have my own opinion. Your counter arguments help me to understand the other point of views and be prepare to defend my own argument. Much appreciated.

Michael Barto
[email protected]
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Michael wrote: "The only way our Charter can support this restriction [on] him is to prove that relocating the attic entrance is 'detriment to the community.""
And: "Our reason right now is to prevent him from improving the access to attic that is internal only to his unit."

So....you have a very long post and really only one question in it. I can't answer it; I'm not an attorney and you're talking about lawsuits words.

Why, in fact, does the rest of your committee want to deny him this access given there's no detriment to the community??

You might want to ask your Board if they or you can consult with your HOA attorney about the "arbitrary & capricious" argument.

As nted above, in CA, owners can appeal an ARC committee's decision to the Board, so maybe that could happen.

Btw, if the attic is NOT exclusive use common area, why did you bring up the expanded legislation about the topic?
MichaelB32 (California)
Posts: 141
Posted:
KerryL1 your input has been valuable. I am very prejudice because our HOA pursued another lawsuit because another homeowner performed remodeling without permission leaving us $90,000 in the hole. Anyway, I presented my arguments to my Architectural cCommittee ( I am the Chairman) and they still wish to asked the home owner to restore the attic crawl space entrance to its original location.

This is what I have put in the minutes.

"Relocation of the attic crawl space entrance will not be allowed. The owner’s relocation of attic crawl space entrance must be returned to it original location in the master bedroom walk-in closet. The reason that the attic crawl space entrance is to remain in the master bedroom walk-in closet is too reduce the likely hood that attic space might be used as an unauthorized living space."

We have also asked this from the HOA Board:

"It was felt by the ARC membership, that the HOA Board should scrutinized this decision for its enforcement and legality. Specific decisions were based on interpretation of Civic Code 4775 which may not be fully understood."

At this point I want to run away from this as far as much as I can. The property owner is a Real Estate Attorney with very large holdings. He has sued my City twice for "Arbitrary and Capricious" and has won twice. This has been verified.

Michael Barto
[email protected]
MichaelB32 (California)
Posts: 141
Posted:
KerryL1 your input has been valuable. I am very prejudice because our HOA pursued another lawsuit because another homeowner performed remodeling without permission leaving us $90,000 in the hole. Anyway, I presented my arguments to my Architectural cCommittee ( I am the Chairman) and they still wish to asked the home owner to restore the attic crawl space entrance to its original location.

This is what I have put in the minutes.

"Relocation of the attic crawl space entrance will not be allowed. The owner’s relocation of attic crawl space entrance must be returned to it original location in the master bedroom walk-in closet. The reason that the attic crawl space entrance is to remain in the master bedroom walk-in closet is too reduce the likely hood that attic space might be used as an unauthorized living space."

We have also asked this from the HOA Board:

"It was felt by the ARC membership, that the HOA Board should scrutinized this decision for its enforcement and legality. Specific decisions were based on interpretation of Civic Code 4775 which may not be fully understood."

At this point I want to run away from this as far as much as I can. The property owner is a Real Estate Attorney with very large holdings. He has sued my City twice for "Arbitrary and Capricious" and has won twice. This has been verified.

Michael Barto
[email protected]

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