HELP! RV parking

Started by CoreyG • 37 replies • 3997 views

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CoreyG (California)
Posts: 10

Posted:

I put in RV parking at my residence after getting approval from the Master Architectural Committee, and now the HOA says I'm in violation of the CC&Rs.

The violation states, "a dune buggy, boat, or other water vehicle (and trailer) not exceeding 35' in length and 8' in height on a trailer, a camper whether attached or detached and a van may be parked on a Lot in areas designated by the Master Architectural Committee. Any such vehicle must be kept in good repair and in clean and good appearance."

I have a 32' 5th wheel that's over 8' in height. Does the 35 and 8 numbers only apply to the buggy, boat or other water vehicle. Also, the HOA won't tell me where the designated areas might be, if there is any

Is this worth fighting. I paid $20,000 for the RV pad.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Welcome to HOATalk. A little more info might help those who are a lot more familiar with this topic that I am

What is the exact wording of your CC&Rs or Rules & Regs on this topic. Did the ARC refer to this wording when they approved your RV?

Did your application tell the ARC how tall your RV is? It sounds like somewhere in your governing documents, the limit is 8 ft. Exactly how tall is your RV?

Who sent the violation letter? The Board of Directors? Your property manager?

CoreyG (California)
Posts: 10

Posted:

Thank you.

The wording I put in the original post, is directly in CC&Rs. And they, the board of directors, said I'm in violation of this. The application didn't ask for trailer height. With this being my first experience with an HOA, I wasn't exactly sure what was needed. My trailer is about 11 feet tall. After I had the work finished, I put in for my notice of completion, inspection was done by the landscape architect with the trailer parked there, and improvements to the property were approved. I'm not sure what I did wrong.

The violation I wrote in he initial post, is the only area I can find info on Rvs or campers.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Corey,

Ask for a meeting with the Board. Explain your desire to comply but you believe that the wording of the CC&Rs is ambiguous with regards to height to trailers. Then ask how this issue can be compromised (screening to hide the RV, perhaps a garage, etc.).

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

It would also be good if you can identify other RVs within the development that may exceed 8 feet in height.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

The Lot would refer to an area on YOUR property.

Did you have the 5th Wheeler prior to submitting the ARC application? If so, did they inquire, before they approved, if your unit would conform to their policy?

CoreyG (California)
Posts: 10

Posted:

I did own it prior to buying the house. And they didn't ask anything about it. Prior to buying the house, it's a new build, we asked the builders selling agent if RV parking was allowed, and they said as long as it's on the garage side of the home. This is why we bought the house. I didn't want to pay for storage.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

In my opinion, someone has a problem with the process. IF, I was in charge and someone was asking to put an RV pad I would be asking if they already have an RV or if they plan to get one, does it conforms to the existing rules.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Corey,

My reading of what you posted is that the 8' limit applies only to "a dune buggy, boat, or other water vehicle (and trailer)." The "areas designated by the Master Architectural Committee" would include your RV pad.

While this will not help with your immediate situation, I strongly suggest that you have the Master Architectural Committee's approval of your request recorded. It won't do much for you now but twenty years in the future when all current board members are dead and gone no one will have to go hunting for that one piece of paper.

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 02/22/2017 11:47 PM
Corey,

My reading of what you posted is that the 8' limit applies only to "a dune buggy, boat, or other water vehicle (and trailer)." The "areas designated by the Master Architectural Committee" would include your RV pad.

While this will not help with your immediate situation, I strongly suggest that you have the Master Architectural Committee's approval of your request recorded. It won't do much for you now but twenty years in the future when all current board members are dead and gone no one will have to go hunting for that one piece of paper.

I agree with this^^

I would pay a lawyer for a consultation to make sure I was correct. Then I'd fight it.

Seems like an easy win to me. May also cause a snow ball effect where others will also be putting in RV pads.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CoreyG on 02/22/2017 3:32 PM
I put in RV parking at my residence after getting approval from the Master Architectural Committee, and now the HOA says I'm in violation of the CC&Rs.

The violation states, "a dune buggy, boat, or other water vehicle (and trailer) not exceeding 35' in length and 8' in height on a trailer, a camper whether attached or detached and a van may be parked on a Lot in areas designated by the Master Architectural Committee. Any such vehicle must be kept in good repair and in clean and good appearance."

I have a 32' 5th wheel that's over 8' in height. Does the 35 and 8 numbers only apply to the buggy, boat or other water vehicle. Also, the HOA won't tell me where the designated areas might be, if there is any

Is this worth fighting. I paid $20,000 for the RV pad.

In answer to your question in bold above ... I read it the same as you and would say yes. LOL ... Show me a 5th Wheel trailer 8' or less in height, or for that matter virtually any camper. We are not attorneys, but I would fight it. I would send a letter in response with a copy of your approval from the Master Architectural Committee. I would also send it "Certified Return Receipt" so you have proof you replied in timely manner and it also will put them on notice that you plan to fight and will be tracking correspondence. If they do not see reason I would then have an attorney send a letter.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'm wondering if, given that RVs/motor homes/5th wheels are not mentioned, is because only the ones that ARE mentioned are permitted. But if that's the case, why did the ARC approve it? Is the approval in writing?

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/01/2017 9:14 AM
I'm wondering if, given that RVs/motor homes/5th wheels are not mentioned, is because only the ones that ARE mentioned are permitted. But if that's the case, why did the ARC approve it? Is the approval in writing?

Good catch Kerry ... Potentially they are thinking of one put on back of a truck; however, a camper is also considered a trailer when you look at the definition. Unless they have a definition noted in the CCR's they will run into potential issues. I have the same questions as Kerry.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/camper

CoreyG (California)
Posts: 10

Posted:

I received their decision today. It states that due to the size of my 5th wheel, they have decided it's in the motor home/mobile home category. Which clearly it's neither of these. Neither of these are allowed to be parked in the community. In a section in the rules and regulations, it states that RVs include, but are not limited to motor homes, campers, and trailers. If they chose to consider mine a camper, why would they list trailer on there. Also, there isn't anything in the rules about parking trailers. The improvements I sent to the architectural committee doesn't say I planned on putting an RV on the concrete pad. I thought it was obvious, and if it wasn't, they would ask about it. It's a 12x40 pad with a large gate and 30 amp connection.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CoreyG on 03/01/2017 9:29 PM
I received their decision today. It states that due to the size of my 5th wheel, they have decided it's in the motor home/mobile home category. Which clearly it's neither of these. Neither of these are allowed to be parked in the community. In a section in the rules and regulations, it states that RVs include, but are not limited to motor homes, campers, and trailers. If they chose to consider mine a camper, why would they list trailer on there. Also, there isn't anything in the rules about parking trailers. The improvements I sent to the architectural committee doesn't say I planned on putting an RV on the concrete pad. I thought it was obvious, and if it wasn't, they would ask about it. It's a 12x40 pad with a large gate and 30 amp connection.

Not to split hairs, but to me a 5th wheel is a mobile home.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

It would have been very helpful, Corey, if you'd have given us complete info in your first post. I agree with JohnC: you have a motor home. It's a habitable.

The ARC approved your pad because they didn't know you have such a large 5-wheel that clearly exceeds the 8-foot height. Should they have asked you? Probably. Should you have volunteered the info. Definitely. Perhaps you can get some other positive use out of the 12x40 pad

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

What is the exact wording in your governing documents for parking recreational vehicles?

Your 5th wheel is below the 35' maximum you noted above in the notice and a 5th Wheel is a camping trailer not a mobile home, I have one myself.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Also, look in the beginning of your CCR's to see if they have definitions for recreational vehicles or campers.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I suspect it's the height that's the issue, Janet.

CoreyG (California)
Posts: 10

Posted:

It's not a mobile home. Those aren't meant for camping. It's not a motor home, as it doesn't even have a motor. In the rules and regulations, it states a recreational vehicle includes, but is not limited to a camper, trailer, motor home, boats, and off road vehicles. It doesn't say where trailers can be parked and can't be parked. If they consider mine a camper, then why are they listed separately on the recreational vehicles?

CoreyG (California)
Posts: 10

Posted:

And the Ca DMV also has my 5th wheel listed separate of campers and motor homes

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CoreyG on 03/03/2017 11:24 AM
It's not a mobile home. Those aren't meant for camping. It's not a motor home, as it doesn't even have a motor. In the rules and regulations, it states a recreational vehicle includes, but is not limited to a camper, trailer, motor home, boats, and off road vehicles. It doesn't say where trailers can be parked and can't be parked. If they consider mine a camper, then why are they listed separately on the recreational vehicles?

You are stating two different items ... in your opening post you stated CCR's and above you are referencing Rules & Regulations. Again, if you want to post the EXACT wording in the various documents and note what document the statement is from it would help us better understand. How something is stated and punctuation can make a difference. You also have not answered the question of whether the ACC approval was verbal or in writing?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Janet makes a lot of sense--I'm starting to feel like you're messing with us, Corey.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

D'OH

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Oh, no! PitA D'OHed me!

CoreyG (California)
Posts: 10

Posted:

Alright, I see how this is going. I'm personally referencing the rules and regulations because I'm reading through everything. They did not bring that up, I did. They say my violation is what I posted in the beginning. I put in for my notice of completion with the management company, and inspection was done by an architect consultant. During this inspection my 5th wheel was parked behind the gate. I got my approval for improvements done a couple days later. But the management company says that this approval isn't for the 5th wheel in it's location, it's for the improvements done to the property.

CoreyG (California)
Posts: 10

Posted:

And for EXACT wording... it's in quotations in my ORIGINAL post.

CoreyG (California)
Posts: 10

Posted:

The approval on improvements is in writing.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CoreyG on 03/04/2017 6:45 PM
And for EXACT wording... it's in quotations in my ORIGINAL post.

The info in the original post QUOTATIONS states that is what the VIOLATION stated ... so what do the CCR's state? Is it the EXACT same? I ask because we have had posters make statements without posting their governing document wording and later when they do it sometimes has been different. Also, in some instances the violation notice was different than the CCR's. The little things including punctuation can make a difference.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Janet is right.

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

Quote:

The approval was for the pad.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Corey

As PITA said, you got approval for a pad and only a pad. You did not get permission to park a whatever there.

CoreyG (California)
Posts: 10

Posted:

The violation wording is the same wording used in the CC&Rs. And the approval was for the pad, gate and 30 amp electrical connection. If I could do it again I would state that I'm building this in order to put a 5th wheel on it I would. I just don't see how I'm in violation of the CC&Rs as it doesn't say where I can and can't put my 5th wheel. As I said above, in their definitions of what is classified as a recreational vehicle in the rules and regs (to which there's no verbage to recreational vehicles in CC&Rs) a camper, a motor home, and a trailer are listed separately. If they were going to classify them as one in the same in the CC&Rs, why wouldn't they do that in the rules and regulations?

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CoreyG on 03/05/2017 11:08 AM
The violation wording is the same wording used in the CC&Rs. And the approval was for the pad, gate and 30 amp electrical connection. If I could do it again I would state that I'm building this in order to put a 5th wheel on it I would. I just don't see how I'm in violation of the CC&Rs as it doesn't say where I can and can't put my 5th wheel. As I said above, in their definitions of what is classified as a recreational vehicle in the rules and regs (to which there's no verbage to recreational vehicles in CC&Rs) a camper, a motor home, and a trailer are listed separately. If they were going to classify them as one in the same in the CC&Rs, why wouldn't they do that in the rules and regulations?

Again, you contradicted yourself ... You state is same wording as in the CCR's then turn around and state no verbiage to recreational vehicles in CCR's.

Also your original post does not say anything about motor home or mobile homes; therefore, where is that text?

CCR's are the ones most legal and binding. The rules and regulations made only by the board is more easily challenged.

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343

Posted:

So this is my take.

Here is the quote from the original post:

"a dune buggy, boat, or other water vehicle (and trailer) not exceeding 35' in length and 8' in height on a trailer, a camper whether attached or detached and a van may be parked on a Lot in areas designated by the Master Architectural Committee. Any such vehicle must be kept in good repair and in clean and good appearance."

It appears to me that the length and height requirement refers only to a dune buggy, boat, or other water vehicle. The reference to the trailer seems to be in regards to a boat trailer. A detached 5th wheel camper would be allowed on a Lot in areas designated by the Master Architectural Committee, which it appears they approved a pad for your camper. As for the length and height, as it only refers to the boat trailer, it also states that the dimensions must not exceed 35' long and 8' high. It isn't one or the other. Both dimensions must be exceeded or else the restrictions would have stated "35' in length and/or 8' in height."

PitA
Posts: 1,416

Posted:

With NO restrictions:

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/222/504806195_7b42f37204_z.jpg?zz=1

http://hgtv.sndimg.com/HGTV/2008/03/07/RV08-NewHorizonsFifthWheel4_lg.jpg

http://www.alloforain.com/upload/orig/1375824249.jpg

If the maximum permitted is 8' then 8'1" must be removed - etc.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Corey, I have a personal question to ask you. Do you are anyone in your immediate family have a handicap parking placard
on any of your vehicles? If so use that as an edge to keep your RV on your property. I read recently where an appellate
court ruled in favor of a family to park an RV in front of their home because their daughter is handicapped and needs the RV's lavatory
That may be your edge too.

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