💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

LindaK5 (California)
Posts: 242
Posted:
I feel that I know the answer to my question, but wanted to pose it here to get some feedback.

Same issue and a different day - transient occupancy/commercial activity. Association met with homeowner and their "witness" in Executive session and let them have time to speak on their behalf regarding the violation. Board subsequently unanimously voted to assess a fine for this Declaration violation. Homeowner was sent a letter stating outcome of Executive session, fine amount, etc. giving them the option of paying the fine by a certain date or if they chose not to pay the fine by that date, the Board would take legal action and addressed the potential for incurring additional legal fees. Homeowner paid the fine in its entirety. The homeowner then sent a certified letter stating they felt the fine was unfair, they wanted their check returned and some confusing dribble about another fine amount (not sure where that was coming from - homeowner was confused). A subsequent letter to the homeowner from the Board stating stated they received the check and basically, the matter is now closed unless they have transient occupancy/commercial activity at this residence.

At a recent General meeting (and election), this homeowner was very volatile and disruptive, complaining about the fine (their behavior was shut down by the President). They didn't go public with any details about the fine or the actual violation, just complaining about the unfairness of it and that they wanted to discuss it .... again. They left the meeting planning on submitting an agenda item for the next Board meeting regarding the fine and Declaration violation.

My question - because this Declaration violation was addressed in Executive session, voted on, fine assessed, fine paid and a letter stating matter closed ...... can this homeowner bring it to the table again? I know you have the right to appeal, but can this be ongoing? And for how long? The Board considers this "case closed" unless this person has another violation of the same matter.

Thanks in advance.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Linda

My strong opinion is to seek legal guidance from your attorney. We can give you our opinion, but at the end of the day, we aren't going to defend the association in court.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Linda wrote: "I know you have the right to appeal [a fine], but can this be ongoing?"

I don't recall CA HOA members' right to appeal except for architectural change refusals. Is in your governing documents somewhere? Maybe it's in CA Civil Code, but I don't recall it; Richard probably knows about ti if it exists. If there is no "right," the Board might vote in ES to refuse her/his request.

We did have a couple ask to appeal a fine +cost to repair damages, and approved their request to appeal. They came to their appeal, but we ended up voting to uphold the fine. But they are very nice -- unlike your violator.
LindaK5 (California)
Posts: 242
Posted:
Thanks, Richard and Kerry.

Kerry - I will look into the governing docs and see what I can find. Seems no matter how often I read them, I find something new every time.

LindaK5 (California)
Posts: 242
Posted:
Thanks, Richard and Kerry.

Kerry - I will look into the governing docs and see what I can find. Seems no matter how often I read them, I find something new every time.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
A member does have he right to appeal, it's called Internal Dispute Resolution (IDR). This is just one of any member's right that must be distributed in writing annually.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Ah, yes, thanks Richard. The use of the word "appeal" threw me.

Go to Davis-stirling.com for more, Linda. I think they have a nice flow chart to show how the process goes. It also, as Richard points out, should be in the letter your HOA sends to h'ownrs every year usually with the budget, etc.
LindaK5 (California)
Posts: 242
Posted:
Thanks, again Richard and Kerry. I don't believe we have anything of the sort in our governing docs, but will look. One of those things I might have overlooked because it's never been utilized and it didn't catch my attention.

I did find on Davis-Stirling that if the original hearing and decision was by the board instead of a rules committee, there is no appeal, which is what occurred. Board had an executive session wherein homeowner attended. Decision subsequent to executive session, mailed to homeowner, paid their fine, second letter sent stating check received and matter closed.

I also note that Davis-Stirling says that the board should reconsider its decision if the member presents new or different facts not presented in the original hearing. I understood this as well - not sure what NEW facts she would present. My concern is that this could go on into perpetuity with the homeowner presenting NEW "facts". I put "facts" in quote because this person might just conjure up baloney to be heard over and over (attention seeker).

As to the IDR Demand ...... not sure how this would come into play here. The Board met in executive session with the homeowner and made their decision AND the homeowner sent their check in! Seems to me like the matter is closed if they sent in their fine check ...... if they wanted to fight the decision, I would think they WOULDN'T make payment, but instead ask for another meeting or IDR demand. The homeowner did have the choice of NOT paying the fine, but if they chose to NOT pay, legal action would ensue by the Board.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here