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JohnD55 (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
I have a suspicious of my rental property's board misusing funds. I recently discovered that they got a 1million payout for a insurance claim. None of the common areas are maintained and also the stucco is falling off the exterior of the building because they have neglected to maintain the paint along with a whole bunch of other mainance issues. There's only about 25 units and there is very few owners that actually live in the units as it's mostly rentals. I just don't see where the money's going and this has been going on for years. I want to do some investigating on my own but don't know where to start. What financial documents should I ask for from the property mamnager?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
You won't be able to do an audit, as privacy laws will not give you access to individual lot files.

You can do a mini financial review:

You should ask for:

Minutes of Board meetings - this should show what expenditures are done.
Treasures reports to the board (which should be part of the minutes but if written are not always attached)
Bank Statements for all accounts - This will show deposits, expenditures
Deposit slips - depending how they are filled out, you could recreate lot ledgers.
Receipts - Supports payments going out.
Budgets for the years involved
Financial statements (spreadsheet, balance sheet, etc.) created for the Board.

Keep in mind that most governing documents and applicable State laws only allow you to review these items vs. having copies made for you. If copies are made, you can be charged the cost of making those copies (including labor). This can become expensive if you are looking at a lot of records.

If your State has open meeting requirements, you should also attend as many board meetings as possible. Keep in mind that you are there as an observer and not as a participant.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Also request the annual financial reports that are required to be prepared by an outside party at the end of every fiscal year. I think both FS 720 and FS 718 (HOAs and Condos) require those to be made available free of charge. If they give you a hard time about the other stuff - they may charge a reasonable amount for physical copies - there should be no question about their obligation to supply you with the annual financial reports gratis.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
And then you need to look for the story behind the numbers - do you have a number of owners who are delinquent in paying assessments? How many and what's the total amount owed the association? What's being done to collect? What about rules enforcement - is it possible some of the maintenance issues are due to tenant misuse and abuse? And don't forgot, you'll get more wear and tear when people move in and out all the time. Finally, note how quickly certain expenses have increased vs. assessments - believe it or not, there is such a thing as assessments being too low (inflation, remember?)

Oh, yeah, what about reserves? Does the community have a reserve fund? When was the last time the board had a reserve study done? Is anyone applying the recommendations to the annual budget? Has the board dipped into reserves to cover shortfalls in the operating budget (because of unexpected repairs, deferred maintenance and of course delinquencies?) Start going to board meetings and listen to what's being said.

You said there aren't many owners living there and you may not want to hear what I'm about to say, but that may be a big part of the problem. Too often, off-site owners don't get involved in the running of the community and they want to keep fees as low as possible so they can maximize their profit from renting the place out. Meanwhile the owner/occupants have to try and keep things going, but get discouraged because the investors don't bother educating their tenants about the rules and rent to anyone with a pulse. And sometimes those folks tear stuff up (what do they care, they can always leave when the lease is up)

It's true your board of directors isn't doing much of anything, but it may also be true they're doing the best they can and no one's helping because most homeowners live off site and so the problems are out of sight, out of mind. Frankly, I think you might be the second or third investor owner I've seen on this board who's actually asking question about how the community is run and where the money's going. That's the first step in turning things around, but you may as well know, you may be in for a long road ahead and you'll need the support of your fellow homeowners (ALL OF THEM, not just the investors).

So talk a walk around the community, introduce yourself to your neighbors (that's what they are, whether you live onsite or not because you own a home in the community). I'm sure the owner-occupants are just as concerned as you are about their investment (after all they live with the falling stucco every day). You may very well hear some of things I've said (I'm an owner occupant myself and frankly, I've seen this movie too many times in my own community. That's also why I tend to give investors the stink eye).

When all of you understand you shouldn't be able to tell the difference between an owner occupant and a renter because everyone's complying with the rules, you may find you're more successful at finding people who will want to live in the community (renters can and do turn into homeowners eventually). Good luck!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
WalterM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 442
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 02/14/2017 6:32 PM
Also request the annual financial reports that are required to be prepared by an outside party at the end of every fiscal year. I think both FS 720 and FS 718 (HOAs and Condos) require those to be made available free of charge. If they give you a hard time about the other stuff - they may charge a reasonable amount for physical copies - there should be no question about their obligation to supply you with the annual financial reports gratis.

From our Bylaws:

Section 9. Inspection of Books and Accounts All Members of the Association and all holders, insurers or guarantors of First Mortgages shall, upon written request and pursuant to O.C.G.A. § 14-3-1602, be entitled to inspect current copies of the Articles of Incorporation, the Declaration, these By-Laws, the Rules and Regulations of the Association and all books and records of the Association during normal business hours at the office of the Association or other place designated reasonably by the Board of Directors as the depository of such items. Copies of the Articles of Incorporation, the By-Laws and all amendments thereto, shall be furnished to any Owner upon request and upon payment of a reasonable charge therefor."

This turned out to the key to getting the Board to be more responsible. One byproduct of this was that some of the corrupt and secretive Board members apparently decided it wasn't so much fun to be a board member after all.

I requested vendor invoices and the HOA attorney billing records. Turned out a lot of money was spent and no record kept. That violates:

"A decision of the Board of Directors shall be by a majority of those Directors present at a duly called meeting and every act or decision done or made by a majority of the Directors present at a duly held meeting at which a quorum is present shall be regarded as the act of the Board."

It is a pesky little thing to confirm a majority of the Board before you start spending other people's money.

If properly kept, the Minutes will reflect all actions of the Board. If not properly kept, it opens up charges of corruption and malfeasance.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
May I also say that a million dollar payout on insurance does NOT equal a "windfall". It usually means there is a million dollars worth of damages to cover. So the items your seeing not repaired may be that way until the insurance claim could be processed. Now the money has come in, the HOA is to spend that money on those items part of the claim.

A HOA is to be a non-profit in most cases. Make sure to understand if your HOA is or not. It makes a difference when viewing and understanding records. Which could mean the million dollars is going into the budget to do the repairs.

Former HOA President
WalterM3 (Georgia)
Posts: 442
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/15/2017 7:42 AM
May I also say that a million dollar payout on insurance does NOT equal a "windfall". It usually means there is a million dollars worth of damages to cover. So the items your seeing not repaired may be that way until the insurance claim could be processed. Now the money has come in, the HOA is to spend that money on those items part of the claim.

A HOA is to be a non-profit in most cases. Make sure to understand if your HOA is or not. It makes a difference when viewing and understanding records. Which could mean the million dollars is going into the budget to do the repairs.

Talking about insurance pay outs. In 2012 George Zimmerman shot and killed visiting teenager Travon Martin at a Florida HOA. As I recall - Zimmerman was listed as the "Security Coordinator". In the HOA newsletter there was a thing: "Any problems, just call George."

Well, after the trial and everything was over there was an item in the news (as I recall) that the HOA insurance policy paid out $1,000,000 to Martin's parents.

Well, here is an article:

Trayvon Martin’s Family Sued By Insurance Company Disputing Mother’s Claim Against Homeowners

08/06/2012 01:35 pm ET | Updated Aug 07, 2012

Trayvon Martin’s mother is being sued by an insurance company trying to absolve itself from any liability in the teen’s death, according to an attorney for Martin’s family.

Travelers Casualty and Surety Company of America has sued Sybrina Fulton, Martin’s mother, and The Retreat at Twin Lakes Homeowner’s Association, the gated community where Martin was shot and killed by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in late February.

Travelers claims that it is not responsible to defend the homeowners association because of various clauses in the association’s policy, specifically a “wrongful act” exclusion.

On March 30, just over a month after Martin was killed, the homeowners association took out a liability policy with Travelers, and shortly thereafter Fulton made a claim for monetary damages in her son’s death."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/06/trayvon-martin-family-sued_n_1747835.html

AND:

Trayvon Martin's parents settle wrongful-death claim

Homeowners association is thought to have paid more than $1 million

April 5, 2013|By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel

SANFORD — Trayvon Martin's parents have settled a wrongful-death claim for an amount thought to be more than $1 million against the homeowners association of the Sanford subdivision where their teenage son was killed.

Their attorney, Benjamin Crump, filed that paperwork at the Seminole County Courthouse, a portion of which was made public Friday.

In the five pages of the settlement that were available for public review, the settlement amount had been marked out. Lower in the agreement, the parties specified that they would keep that amount confidential."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-04-05/news/os-trayvon-martin-settlement-20130405_1_trayvon-martin-benjamin-crump-george-zimmerman

Something to think about.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
We don't know what the insurance claim was about. Why would the insurance company pay out to the HOA? That is a little odd. Plus is the insurance going to dump the HOA after the payout? We are not talking the HOA paying out to someone it did not seem. It seemed the HOA made a claim on their own insurance. It's a bit unclear.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Walter,

You should start your own thread if desired.
The question from John (the OP) was what records he needed.
JohnD55 (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Just a little update it turns out they received 2 million as a settlement and 1 million of it went to "attorney fees"
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Well, my suggestions haven't changed. You haven't said what the lawsuit was about, if the work the $1 million was supposed to cover wasn't done, etc. You haven't said if you've attended any meetings or read any meeting minutes, etc. Having questions about hour association budget is ok, but you have to ask the questions and read the information for yourself to see what's what - get to work.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
That still means your HOA had a million dollars of damages in order to get that award. Are you wanting some kind of rebate now that you heard of this "Win Fall"? You did not want an audit before the lawsuit did you?

There is a reason for a judgement win and there is a purpose for that judgement win. You hear about people winning thousands or millions of dollars in a car accident? Guess what? They most likely can't walk again or use a part of their body for the rest of their lives.... That cost may go to keeping their ventilator going as long as they live.

It's not much different from what your HOA may have sued over and won. Our HOA we could have won a case for Masonite siding. It would have paid out for owners to replace their siding. Could have won lots of money... We still would have to replace the siding or disclose to buyer's the Masonite siding is bad and they can not make a claim as it was already paid out... Now the new owner is going to have to replace that bad siding on their own dime. If they find out before the purchase... They won't buy or make it your responsibility before they will.

So our question that you have not answered is what the lawsuit was about and why now the audit?

Former HOA President
JohnD55 (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
The insurance money was for a sinkhole claim that was already repaired from a previous claim. $1 million went to attorney fees and the other $1 went to the association but no one knows where it went as we're not able to get any financial documents. Im not looking for some type of rebate I just want to know where it went as everything so far looks very suspicious and they could get away with this if I don't question the financials.
JohnD55 (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
And FYI this claim was paid over a year ago and no repairs or maincance to the commons areas have been made.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Well do we know if it was paid or just finished in court? I foreclosed on a house in our HOA. It took about 6 months after to see the check. Plus a check that large would never put into a bank. FDIC only insures to maybe half of that or less. So it may be the money is in some other kind of funds to break it up for the taxes and risk.

Former HOA President
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Ok, have you gone to the board with any of your concerns? If so, what was the response? If not, why not?

I'm not saying an audit of some sort wouldn't hurt, but you may want to start with talking to the people who make the decisions. That can become very important down the road if things escalate - I asked X on such and such a day, was promised Y by Z date, but nothing happened. Or....I was told the money was supposed to go for X, but I looked at the budget and didn't see any line item reflecting that expense or deposit....

Getting answers from the board could also serve as a start to your audit - does the paperwork and numbers line up with what was said in the minutes?


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnD55 on 02/19/2017 7:25 AM
The insurance money was for a sinkhole claim that was already repaired from a previous claim. $1 million went to attorney fees and the other $1 went to the association but no one knows where it went as we're not able to get any financial documents. Im not looking for some type of rebate I just want to know where it went as everything so far looks very suspicious and they could get away with this if I don't question the financials.

Start getting your written request together, John. How long have you been trying to get the information? If it has only been a couple of weeks then there may be a good reason for the delay. But maybe they really do have something to hide. If your property manager is unresponsive to your requests for financial documents then send a written request directly to the board. At some point they will have to give you what you're asking for, but you have to ask in the "right way". Start by requesting the annual reports, prepared as required according to FS 718.111(13), for the last 7 years.

An association withe less than 50 units, such as yours, may, in lieu of annual financial statements, prepare a report of cash receipts and expenditures (FS 718.111(13)(b)2). Request access to those reports, too, for the last 7 years.

There's a statutory presumption that an association willfully failed to comply if they don't provide you with access to the records within 10 days.

With all that said, be prepared for a fight if they're really trying to hide what happened to the million dollars. Failure to give unit owners access to official records (including financials) is possibly THE single largest complaint against condo associations in Florida.
JohnD55 (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
I have finally received some documents today. I was given the balance sheet and from what I'm seeing there's about 1.3 million dollars missing from the accounts. They said they can't give me the bank reconciles yet because there not ready and they also can't give me the minutes yet because they have to review them. Not sure what that means? How do I proceed?
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I'd ask to see all the monthly financial statements for the preceding 7 years plus the annual financial reports and I'd make the request in writing. A single balance sheet isn't going to provide enough detail. If you ask for copies they can charge you a "reasonable" amount per page and you could potentially be talking 5 or 600 pages, but you have the right to inspect them at no cost.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Since we are talking audit, which take considerable time and effort to do properly, have you considered talking to an auditor to give you some guidance on how to proceed (or just hire him/her to review the documents for you?) Try googling HOA audit and see who's out there in your area. You may have to go back 3-5 years to get a good picture of what's going on, so you may be biting off a lot more than you can chew.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

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